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  1. #31
    Incredible Member astro@work's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I always wonder what it might have been like if instead of using Miss America or Hippolyta as Diana's replacement in the WWII-era JSA they went with a different Quality Comics character . . .

    from Feature Comics #42 (March 1941).[/SIZE]
    Interesting idea, given how many characters they've tried to insert as a Diana replacement that didn't stick (those listed above as well as Fury/Helena).
    I'm thinking "Glory" wouldn't have stuck either, for a couple of reasons.
    First reason is she was never utilized in the All Star Squadron, where expanded knowledge of the Golden Age originated for many of us.
    (Honestly doubt anybody would be talking about Miss America or Liberty Belle today if we hadn't learned about them in A.S.S.)
    Second is that her costume is pretty plain, if not for holding the flag. Not much visual excitement.
    Third is her identity is pretty wrapped in mystery...meaning she would have needed some development to understand her.

    That said, I can see some similarities to Diana being a "star spangled heroine" back in the 40's that would have translated over with this character.
    How many appearances did USA/Glory get back in the day? (Just curious).

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Yes. It also opens the door to "in-between" years stories. It also allows them to give Donna back her pre-Crisis origin where she was rescued by Diana as a baby.
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  3. #33
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    The problem with citing a story from Wonder Woman's own book as reason for her being in the 1930's is that this story was intended to be a predecessor to Didio's 5G storyline. It wasn't necessarily a set in stone moment after that was discarded. Likewise, can we really use the Golden Age special as a footprint for what is actual for the main Earth? We have a daughter of Batman and Catwoman being born...in just a few years. The Earth that exists in the Golden Age has to be a multiversal Earth.

    As far as Wonder Woman operating during the formation of the JSA, at this point it creates more issues than it solves. What does it solve? It allows her to actually be present and rescue Donna Troy as an infant. It serves to allow her to be the inspiration for forming the JSA. It can create a ton of story potential. What problem does it create? As said, how does this serve Steve and Etta Candy? For Etta, it could serve to reinstate her original Holiday self (leaving current Etta to be a great granddaughter.) For Steve, the issue is muddier. It could be he is a grandson of the original (as the television series had him be.) What are the likelihood that two generations of a family of men wash up on the shores of Themyscira? Odds are quite good where the gods are concerned. Hera has a way of being like that.
    The biggest question though would be why did she leave? Any number of reasons can be written but the biggest problem would be in perception. As someone above callerd her a "coward" it would tarnish her image more than anything it would help resolve...Donna Troy, Steve, Etta, JSA....is Diana's character worth that?
    The question becomes is everything history or is it just New 52 history? New 52 history has Amazons leaving the island all throughout history. It would be far easier at this point to introduce or re-introduce a character as a stand-in. Whether it be the original Fury or Miss America. I liked the idea of Hippolyta for when it was done, but that time has passed it seems.
    Who really knows. DC's continuity is such a master class if ^*$*ed-up. DC needs to seriously figure it's history out and stick with it. It's a fun thought of what if everything happened, but all that does is make it a headache for readers, which in turn prevents new readers and causes current readers to stop.

  4. #34
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astro@work View Post
    How many appearances did USA/Glory get back in the day? (Just curious).
    The GCD lists seven appearances for her feature, in Feature Comics #42-48.
    Same number of appearances as Miss America in Military Comics.

  5. #35
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    While I'm in favor of the idea of Diana being in the Golden Age, I don't think she has to necessarily be a JSA founder.

  6. #36
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I loathe these attempts at regressing Wonder Woman and completely upending her entire status quo and supporting cast just to shoehorn her back onto a team that hasn't been important to her longer than most fans have been alive. The only worse retcons in Wonder Woman history are Daddy Zeus and her deadbeat brother, a fitting collection of creatively bankrupt ideas.

    Let's just get through all the arguments:

    1. WW2 and the JSA are just not important enough facets of her character history to where they can't be easily replaced as has been shown in multiple stories like G&Ms, Year One, or even the first movie.

    2 I've never heard a convincing argument for why she's more "tied" to WW2 than either Superman or Batman are to WW2 or the 30s who do not have to deal with this nonsense.

    3 Pretty much all attempts I've seen to try and have it where she debuted in WW2, quit like a coward, came back in modern times so Supes can still be #1, and somehow Steve and Etta are still young (or their coincidentally identical descendants) are the kind of stuff that get superhero comics rightfully mocked and laughed at.

    4 No interest in Hippolyta on the JSA either. Yeah, Diana ain't a Legacy character to a title that only exists because of her. You don't do that with Superman or Batman, you don't get do it with Wonder Woman. Hippolyta being an epic hero from the ancient past like seen in Perez's run or Historia is far more impactful for that character and Diana than having her run around failing to stop Hitler.
    The Daddy Zeus thing was unoriginal too - she stole that origin from Cassie, who ended up being retconned as Zeus's granddaughter (which also had the effect of making Cassie Diana's niece, instead of just a fangirl). New 52 also had Donna given Diana's original made from clay origin, which I'm glad is no longer the case.

    Modern Etta is not identical to the golden age one, as current Etta is black and of course classic Etta was white. It's pretty obvious that they're just namesake relatives, probably three generations apart. Might as well do the same for Steve - or they could have him caught up in the same thing that sent Green Arrow and Speedy back to the present after their wartime adventures, as the Stargirl Spring Break Special a couple of years ago established that the golden age Oliver and Roy and modern versions are one and the same, accidental time travel (thanks to villains) sent them to the 40s and back.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    The Daddy Zeus thing was unoriginal too - she stole that origin from Cassie, who ended up being retconned as Zeus's granddaughter (which also had the effect of making Cassie Diana's niece, instead of just a fangirl). New 52 also had Donna given Diana's original made from clay origin, which I'm glad is no longer the case.

    Modern Etta is not identical to the golden age one, as current Etta is black and of course classic Etta was white. It's pretty obvious that they're just namesake relatives, probably three generations apart. Might as well do the same for Steve - or they could have him caught up in the same thing that sent Green Arrow and Speedy back to the present after their wartime adventures, as the Stargirl Spring Break Special a couple of years ago established that the golden age Oliver and Roy and modern versions are one and the same, accidental time travel (thanks to villains) sent them to the 40s and back.
    Yeah honestly there are any number of ways they can explain it, and even create a compelling story around it!

    I must admit time-travel wasn't an idea I had in mind for Steve, but why not? I do lean towards the idea of some mystical element being involved, and Steve being resurrected in the present-day since that actually has a precedent in some, admittedly insane, Silver Age comics.

  8. #38
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    I get why a lot of people don't like Hippolyta on JSA (kinda retroactively making Diana Wonder Woman II even if it was time travel, etc) but I actually liked that retcon, it was cute to me.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Yes. It also opens the door to "in-between" years stories. It also allows them to give Donna back her pre-Crisis origin where she was rescued by Diana as a baby.
    I'm definitely in for that. I hate what tweaking of characters after COIE did to Donna, Katar & Shayera, and the Legion.

  10. #40
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Time travel never makes anything more streamlined, it usually leads to just the opposite. Some time travel with Steve is just gonna get annoying. As are doppelgangers abd resurrections. If Steve dies during WW2, that should be it. Her pining for her dead boyfriend in the second movie received a lot of criticism for a reason. Just have their romance in the present day, abd leave them alone.

    Rescuing Donna from the fire never made complete sense either. Donna is the same age as Dick, and Dick typically debuts as Robin around the same time or a bit before Wonder Woman arrives. Time does not move differently on Themyscira. It never made sense in the timeline for Diana to rescue her. So the JSA thing could maybe help with that....but isn't worth getting all of the other headaches in the meantime. Just have Hermes rescue Donna and bring her to the Amazons, and call it a day

  11. #41
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    The Daddy Zeus thing was unoriginal too - she stole that origin from Cassie, who ended up being retconned as Zeus's granddaughter (which also had the effect of making Cassie Diana's niece, instead of just a fangirl). New 52 also had Donna given Diana's original made from clay origin, which I'm glad is no longer the case.

    Modern Etta is not identical to the golden age one, as current Etta is black and of course classic Etta was white. It's pretty obvious that they're just namesake relatives, probably three generations apart. Might as well do the same for Steve - or they could have him caught up in the same thing that sent Green Arrow and Speedy back to the present after their wartime adventures, as the Stargirl Spring Break Special a couple of years ago established that the golden age Oliver and Roy and modern versions are one and the same, accidental time travel (thanks to villains) sent them to the 40s and back.
    Yeah, no if you have involve time travel to explain the status quo of one of the most important supporting characters for WW when time travel is otherwise not a thing in WW stories than that falls under convoluted comic book B.S. I listed in #3. That was dumb with Hippolyta and it would be dumb now

    Unless DC goes full in on the alternate history aspect that world history changed from WW2 onwards like New Frontier or Watchmen, none of this B.S. where it's still mostly the same and Diana quits like a coward so Superman can still be #1 in modern times, than there really isn't a convincing argument for why Diana should be regressed back to being a JSA member that completely upends her entire supporting cast or demotes her to a legacy character to a title that started with her.
    Last edited by Gaius; 02-02-2023 at 07:34 AM.

  12. #42
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    I'm definitely in for that. I hate what tweaking of characters after COIE did to Donna, Katar & Shayera, and the Legion.
    Don't forget, it wasn't CoIE that resulted in changes to Katar and Shayera.
    They even had a 17-issue series that ran in 1986-1987.

    It was the 1989 Hawkworld series that did them wrong.

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Don't forget, it wasn't CoIE that resulted in changes to Katar and Shayera.
    They even had a 17-issue series that ran in 1986-1987.

    It was the 1989 Hawkworld series that did them wrong.
    Oh, hell, there's an entire EARTH that is that version. Earth 85. It's basically the post-Crisis Earth pre-Hawkworld.

    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-85
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  14. #44
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    I have no problem with A Wonder Woman being a part of the JSA, whether its Diana or Hippolyta. In fact, put Superman and Batman on the team, but as "honorary members", like in previous continuities. But do so "creatively", whether it's in the present or in the past (time travel adventure, however brief).

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Don't forget, it wasn't CoIE that resulted in changes to Katar and Shayera.
    They even had a 17-issue series that ran in 1986-1987.

    It was the 1989 Hawkworld series that did them wrong.
    Yes, I wasn't blaming COIE but the tweaking that came afterwards in a lot of "re-introduction" of characters.

    Byrne wiping out Superboy eventually destroyed the Legion. Wonder Woman and Hawkworld did the same to Donna, Katar, and Shayera.

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