The MCU: the character they could have used was...

[DrNewGod]

Okay. I clearly asked my question wrong. Most of what I'm seeing is "the way I would have written the MCu is..."

What I'm asking about is what other existing Marvel character would have better served in place of a character the films had to adapt very radically from source just for name recognition?

Example: Was Her/Ayesha a better fit than Moondragon or Anelle for GotG2?

[phonogram12]

No one cares about Sharon Carter...

I mean, you could've just ended your statement right there and it would've been on the nose.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Okay. I clearly asked my question wrong. Most of what I'm seeing is "the way I would have written the MCu is..."

What I'm asking about is what other existing Marvel character would have better served in place of a character the films had to adapt very radically from source just for name recognition?

Example: Was Her/Ayesha a better fit than Moondragon or Anelle for GotG2?

It depends on what kinda story your telling. Moondragon would've benefited Drax more if they make her an adult version of his daughter Kymelia.

[Brian B]

They should have created the Masters of Evil before getting the Thunderbolts. Make a good origin story on some Masters of Evil and then spin it into the movies.

I respectfully disagree. The Thunderbolts have such a great twist, at least the first team did.

The Masters of Evil on the other hand always felt a little random. I mean, just look at ‘em — a radioactive Chinese Commie hanging out with a Nazi war criminal, two Asgardians and an embezzler, of his own family’s money at the encouragement of his brother, which never made sense. What the heck is that? I’ll take the Thunderbolts, please.

Okay, so now I’ll put my pick out there for critique.

I would have put the Killing Machine — Ransak the Reject — and Karkas in the Eternals.

The OP would be right to point out this doesn’t answer his question. Except, it kind of does. What did the Eternals movie lack? Almost all the connections to the source material. Actually, the same thing could be said of Gaiman’s and Gillen’s series. Do they really resemble the Eternals? No, they don’t. The Eternals in the 21st century are a bit of a snoozefest. You can say a lot of things about all Kirby’s work in the '70s, and even the '80s including the Eternals, but it sure as heck wasn’t boring.

I don’t know how Karkas and the Reject would have fit in there, but the Eternals biggest issue was it really lacked the Kirby vibe. Sticking a couple of the most action-packed characters that the Eternals have in there would have livened it up quite a bit, brought some of that Kirby Krackle with Ransak’s power-rod.

I have no idea how they could have made it work with the story they told. But just look at this. If there was one thing that Eternals movie could have used more of, it was THIS.

[godisawesome]

I respectfully disagree. The Thunderbolts have such a great twist, at least the first team did.

The Masters of Evil on the other hand always felt a little random. I mean, just look at ‘em — a radioactive Chinese Commie hanging out with a Nazi war criminal, two Asgardians and an embezzler, of his own family’s money at the encouragement of his brother, which never made sense. What the heck is that? I’ll take the Thunderbolts, please.

Okay, so now I’ll put my pick out there for critique.

I would have put the Killing Machine — Ransak the Reject — and Karkas in the Eternals.

The OP would be right to point out this doesn’t answer his question. Except, it kind of does. What did the Eternals movie lack? Almost all the connections to the source material. Actually, the same thing could be said of Gaiman’s and Gillen’s series. Do they really resemble the Eternals? No, they don’t. The Eternals in the 21st century are a bit of a snoozefest. You can say a lot of things about all Kirby’s work in the '70s, and even the '80s including the Eternals, but it sure as heck wasn’t boring.

I don’t know how Karkas and the Reject would have fit in there, but the Eternals biggest issue was it really lacked the Kirby vibe. Sticking a couple of the most action-packed characters that the Eternals have in there would have livened it up quite a bit, brought some of that Kirby Krackle with Ransak’s power-rod.

I have no idea how they could have made it work with the story they told. But just look at this. If there was one thing that Eternals movie could have used more of, it was THIS.

Here’s a twist I think was obvious that they should’ve done - the Deviants are Eternals who’ve “decayed” from their original design and purpose as part of a cycle that “our” Eternals were unaware of, with some decaying mentally first (as a existential threat to Thena) and other decaying physically or even just turning on their masters earlier. So some of the Deviants were just hiding, while others were culling humanity to try and keep them from fueling the Celestial seed underneath their planet, and instead of weird CGI predators, their more Kirby-esque humanoids… down to even having facial structures resembling Kirby’s style.

[krazijoe]

I respectfully disagree. The Thunderbolts have such a great twist, at least the first team did.

The Masters of Evil on the other hand always felt a little random. I mean, just look at ‘em — a radioactive Chinese Commie hanging out with a Nazi war criminal, two Asgardians and an embezzler, of his own family’s money at the encouragement of his brother, which never made sense. What the heck is that? I’ll take the Thunderbolts, please.

I am talking in the Movies. In the Comics the T-Bolts was a HUGE surprise and a great hit because of that. All of which were just Masters of Evil in Disguise...

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Rather than tieing her to the Hand, I'd have Madame Goa be related to Master Khan.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Khan

He's an early villian for Iron Fist so I'd use him for Iron Fist's first season. Iron Fist's villians are pretty weak in design. Mostly they are just weapon users so retooling them as Khan's henchmen kills two birds with one stone.

He also could work as Shang-chi's father instead of the Mandarin.

[j9ac9k]

Iron Man 2: I don't see why they didn't make Vanko the Crimson Dynamo since he just ended up in armor anyway. The whips are a weird choice for a weapon and it would've been cool to see him in a suit of armor for the racetrack fight. There was zero reason for that character to be Whiplash.

[Brian B]

I am talking in the Movies. In the Comics the T-Bolts was a HUGE surprise and a great hit because of that. All of which were just Masters of Evil in Disguise...

Yes, I know. That’s the “twist” to which I refer. Also, it’s very much a newer Masters of Evil.

I am referring to the MCU as well as the comic. Don’t you think they will have the same twist when they adapt the comic to the MCU? Sure, the characters are going to differ from the comics to characters we already supposedly know in the MCU. But if the Thunderbolts don’t turn out to be real supervillains who betray whatever they claim to be, then what’s the point? That is the Thunderbolts whole point.

[krazijoe]

Yes, I know. That’s the “twist” to which I refer. Also, it’s very much a newer Masters of Evil.

I am referring to the MCU as well as the comic. Don’t you think they will have the same twist when they adapt the comic to the MCU? Sure, the character are going to differ from the comics to characters we already supposedly know in the MCU. But if the Thunderbolts don’t turn out to be real supervillains who betray whatever they claim to be, then what’s the point? That is the Thunderbolts whole point.

How can it be a twist when we already know it? And so far none of them are really supervillains.

[Brian B]

How can it be a twist when we already know it? And so far none of them are really supervillains.

We know it because we are comics fans. The average MCU moviegoer won’t know it.

I hope they keep that basic plot point. That’s the best thing about them, no matter what they have evolved into, IMO.

[DrNewGod]

I respectfully disagree. The Thunderbolts have such a great twist, at least the first team did.

The Masters of Evil on the other hand always felt a little random. I mean, just look at ‘em — a radioactive Chinese Commie hanging out with a Nazi war criminal, two Asgardians and an embezzler, of his own family’s money at the encouragement of his brother, which never made sense. What the heck is that? I’ll take the Thunderbolts, please.

Even tho it's not the thread focus, I must now fight you.

The Masters of Evil were not random, but were the Silver Age OG of Bad Guy Gangs. Each being a Mortal Enemy of one of the Avengers (Zemo-Cap, Radioactive Man-Thor, Melter-Iron Man, Black Knight-Giant Man+Wasp). It was the first such opposite number group since the two Injustice Gang iterations took on the Justice Society of America back in the waning days of The Golden Age.

Their legacy and storyline was the source of my personal favorite Avengers run, "Under Siege," which set the stage for The Thunderbolts. Both the original MoE and Under Siege crews consisted of Avengers enemies assembled by Zemo as a way of getting at Captain America. The Thunderbolts came to be because Zemo was preparing another run at the Avengers when they were (seemingly) killed, and Zemo switched tactics.

What I will agree with you on is that The Thunderbolts had a story that went beyond purile payback.

[inisideguy]

The MCU has made some fun and successful films. All adaptations take liberties with the source, but the MCU seems especially prone to giving us in-name-only characters. Sometimes (Wong) that's for the better. Others, it's not, especially when Marvel has so deep a bench of characters that can serve the role Feige, et al. wanted for their scripts.

My case: Sam Rockwell gave us fantastic character in Iron Man 2, but it wasn't Justin Hammer. However, the film's character seems *very* well suited to the comics' Morgan Stark.

Others?

Man I loved Rockwell in that movie. How they never got him to comeback is crazy.

[krazijoe]

Even tho it's not the thread focus, I must now fight you.

The Masters of Evil were not random, but were the Silver Age OG of Bad Guy Gangs. Each being a Mortal Enemy of one of the Avengers (Zemo-Cap, Radioactive Man-Thor, Melter-Iron Man, Black Knight-Giant Man+Wasp). It was the first such opposite number group since the two Injustice Gang iterations took on the Justice Society of America back in the waning days of The Golden Age.

Their legacy and storyline was the source of my personal favorite Avengers run, "Under Siege," which set the stage for The Thunderbolts. Both the original MoE and Under Siege crews consisted of Avengers enemies assembled by Zemo as a way of getting at Captain America. The Thunderbolts came to be because Zemo was preparing another run at the Avengers when they were (seemingly) killed, and Zemo switched tactics.

What I will agree with you on is that The Thunderbolts had a story that went beyond purile payback.

Under Siege is probably my favorite storyline of all time.

[j9ac9k]

Yes, I know. That’s the “twist” to which I refer. Also, it’s very much a newer Masters of Evil.

I am referring to the MCU as well as the comic. Don’t you think they will have the same twist when they adapt the comic to the MCU? Sure, the characters are going to differ from the comics to characters we already supposedly know in the MCU. But if the Thunderbolts don’t turn out to be real supervillains who betray whatever they claim to be, then what’s the point? That is the Thunderbolts whole point.

I hope/believe we'll get a nod to that when it turns out Taskmaster is actually Zemo in disguise.