Thoughts on the new secret invasion?

[Tony Stark]

Still, all the people who told him he'd be back and angry...they were right.

And Tony had Project Achilles for when he did. Tony knew there was a damn good chance Hulk would be back. That’s why he wasn’t surprised or shocked.

[Frontier]

And Tony had Project Achilles for when he did. Tony knew there was a damn good chance Hulk would be back. That’s why he wasn’t surprised or shocked.

Didn't that not work out so well? I haven't re-read World War Hulk in forever though.

[Tony Stark]

Didn't that not work out so well? I haven't re-read World War Hulk in forever though.

I stated on the last page it didn’t work because Hardball worked undercover for Hydra and stole a good bit of it from Tony. It didn’t work, but not because of Tony’s project being faulty.

[vitruvian]

I'm so over Maria Hill.

I'm over her (comics version) until she faces a war crimes tribunal (i.e., trial by combat against dinosaurs) in the Savage Land, convened by Ka-zar and Shanna for the deaths of all those Savage Lands enslaved miners way back in Bendis' first New Avengers arc.

[vitruvian]

Yep. This one is more low key. There aren’t as many Skrulls and only a handful of people know about it.

And Maria and whatever her organization is called these days is so focused on the Skrulls, they've completely missed the Hand replacement of world leaders taking place in Daredevil and Punisher.

[vitruvian]

Maria Hill's opinion about superheroes who do not kill

And her opinion is BS. Once Spider-Man turns Osborn over to the authorities, it's on them either to lawfully execute him or to actually keep him contained in prison - y'know, as opposed to making him Secretary of State. You can't complain about superhumans not acting like they're accountable to the people, the government, and the law on the one hand (i.e., all of her Civil War shenanigans, even when she was shooting at heroes to enforce laws that hadn't actually been passed yet), and then on the other hand complain about the consequences when they do follow the laws and allow the system to decide what to do with the bad guys, and it turns out the system doesn't do a good job.

[Tony Stark]

I'm over her (comics version) until she faces a war crimes tribunal (i.e., trial by combat against dinosaurs) in the Savage Land, convened by Ka-zar and Shanna for the deaths of all those Savage Lands enslaved miners way back in Bendis' first New Avengers arc.

It’s been so long since I read that arc that I didn’t remember that she did this. She should definitely answer for this.

And Maria and whatever her organization is called these days is so focused on the Skrulls, they've completely missed the Hand replacement of world leaders taking place in Daredevil and Punisher.

I was unaware of this. That war between Frank and Matt is really spreading out and infecting everything isn’t it?!

[marhawkman]

And her opinion is BS. Once Spider-Man turns Osborn over to the authorities, it's on them either to lawfully execute him or to actually keep him contained in prison - y'know, as opposed to making him Secretary of State. You can't complain about superhumans not acting like they're accountable to the people, the government, and the law on the one hand (i.e., all of her Civil War shenanigans, even when she was shooting at heroes to enforce laws that hadn't actually been passed yet), and then on the other hand complain about the consequences when they do follow the laws and allow the system to decide what to do with the bad guys, and it turns out the system doesn't do a good job.

Yeah, blaming superheroes for the laegal system is not a good stance to take.

[vitruvian]

Yeah, blaming superheroes for the laegal system is not a good stance to take.

Yeah, and of course we can only take blaming the government and system so far, either, because in the end it's really the writers' fault for not wanting to come up with new villains. Sure, Bruce Wayne when he was still a billionaire could have provided social services and taken over Arkham so it was actually both rehabilitative and secure, but even that would have failed the next time the new writer wanted the Joker back in action. Sure, Reed Richards could theoretically come up with superscience that would make the superprisons really secure and not be a gross violation of civil liberties or jurisdictions like the Negative Zone 42 concept, but it would be doomed to failure as well.

And even if they by and large did start killing all the really dangerous villains extrajudicially and weren't lambasted for it as lawless vigilante murderers, guess what? Death would just become as big a revolving door for the villains as it's become over the decades for the heroes, not even counting the Krakoan mutant resurrection shenanigans; on the DC side, you'd probably have the Joker's corpse rise from Slaughter Swamp as the worst of both worlds combo of himself and Solomon Grundy, in Marvel if it wasn't Sinister or Miles Warren cloning the bad guys ad infinitum it would be Mephisto letting them out on day passes or something lame like Black Talon contracting out on 'life' insurance policies.

The argument that the heroes should just execute the worst baddies once they have them beaten (as opposed to in the heat of combat, which I'd generally be fine with on occasion) is fatally flawed from both the Watsonian (in-universe, let's pretend this is all for real) and Doylist (how these stories actually get written) perspectives.

[marhawkman]

Yeah, and of course we can only take blaming the government and system so far, either, because in the end it's really the writers' fault for not wanting to come up with new villains. Sure, Bruce Wayne when he was still a billionaire could have provided social services and taken over Arkham so it was actually both rehabilitative and secure, but even that would have failed the next time the new writer wanted the Joker back in action. Sure, Reed Richards could theoretically come up with superscience that would make the superprisons really secure and not be a gross violation of civil liberties or jurisdictions like the Negative Zone 42 concept, but it would be doomed to failure as well.

And even if they by and large did start killing all the really dangerous villains extrajudicially and weren't lambasted for it as lawless vigilante murderers, guess what? Death would just become as big a revolving door for the villains as it's become over the decades for the heroes, not even counting the Krakoan mutant resurrection shenanigans; on the DC side, you'd probably have the Joker's corpse rise from Slaughter Swamp as the worst of both worlds combo of himself and Solomon Grundy, in Marvel if it wasn't Sinister or Miles Warren cloning the bad guys ad infinitum it would be Mephisto letting them out on day passes or something lame like Black Talon contracting out on 'life' insurance policies.

The argument that the heroes should just execute the worst baddies once they have them beaten (as opposed to in the heat of combat, which I'd generally be fine with on occasion) is fatally flawed from both the Watsonian (in-universe, let's pretend this is all for real) and Doylist (how these stories actually get written) perspectives.

Yeah stuff like the spider-man vs Green Goblin movie scene where OOPS, Norman dies of Goblin Glider to the chest? It's not murder because Spider-man didn't intentionally kill Norman. But well, stuff happens when you're using hardware like that.

[Anthony W]

One of my New Year Resolutions was I wouldn't read events that had the name of a previous event.

Maria Hill's opinion about superheroes who do not kill

So edgy. It's like I'm back in school listening to this exact same speech from one friend while another tries to show me new lame characters he created who happen to be Wolverine's son and daughter.

[Anthony W]

Ugh. This was suppose to be a part of another post. Sorry posting distracted

[vitruvian]

One of my New Year Resolutions was I wouldn't read events that had the name of a previous event.



So edgy. It's like I'm back in school listening to this exact same speech from one friend while another tries to show me new lame characters he created who happen to be Wolverine's son and daughter.

The funniest thing is that eventually Marvel actually made major characters out of... Wolverine's son and (clone) daughter(s).

[marhawkman]

The funniest thing is that eventually Marvel actually made major characters out of... Wolverine's son and (clone) daughter(s).

Yeah MC2 had a daughter of Wolverine actually.

[vitruvian]

Yeah MC2 had a daughter of Wolverine actually.

Don't get me wrong, I actually quite like Laura and especially Gabby, as well as the version in the movie Logan - but it's all about the execution, isn't it? The idea itself isn't all that cool, and it could have turned out terribly wrong. Heck, for a while Daken was kind of a hopelessly 'edgy' character before they started giving him actual depth in later stories.