Is the Frightful Four a lame supervillain team?

[Iron Maiden]

Maybe the concept of the Frightful just doesn't work anymore. What they should bring back is the Intelligencia, the counterpoint to the Illuminati. Doom was part of them at one point but then turned on them. They might need a replacement for Egghead though. I think he's been considered dead for a while but I think he's been back.

IMO part of the problem is that there doesn't seem to be many new villains that catch on and some of the Silver Age ones look a bit goofy these days.

[CaptCleghorn]

At this point you as have most of the Intelligentsia and bring in Red Ghost. I think Red Ghost is kinda lame because he is an outdated Cold War stereotype, but he is more intelligent than Trapster and he and his super apes bring some muscle to the group.

The Red Ghost could easily be rewritten as a Russian with an unusual love for the days and methods of Stalin. Of course, deciding if Putin is actually a more decent leader than Stalin is up for debate, but Ivan's a guy that could easily be used today. After all, next to Batman's rogues gallery, he practically a bland 9 to 5 guy.

[Triniking1234]

I like the Frightful Four but they'll never be on the same level as Spidey's Sinister Six or The X-Men's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants cuz they're used to inconsistently in the title and in other Marvel books even separately Wizard might the only one to show up. Why the hell are Sandman, Trapster, Hydro-Man and Titania starting beef with the F4 by themselves for?

[Sutekh]

Has anyone ever tried to do for the Frightful Four what the "Avengers Under Siege" story did for the Masters of Evil, which was to take a silly 1960s "evil equivalent" team and try to make them into a genuine threat?

I imagine there hasn't been a successful attempt, or at least so successful that it would be as famous as the Masters of Evil story, but someone might have tried.

I could totally get behind a 'Frightful Fourteen' story where the Wizard assembles thirteen other villains who've been Frightful Four members and attempts to just zerg rush Four Freedoms Plaza, just as Zemo overran Avengers Mansion with a dozen or so Masters of Evil.

Options: Wizard, Trapster, Hydro-Man, Klaw, Sandman, Titania, Absorbing Man, Ghost, Llyra, Electro, Red Ghost, Living Laser, Mr. Hyde, Taskmaster, Constrictor, Dreadknight, Man-Bull, Blastaar, Salamandra, Wrecker, Thunderball, Bulldozer 2 (daughter of the original Bulldozer) and Karl Malus. (I'd definitely want Salamandra, Titania *and* Llyra, since the team is a sausage-fest already.)

Deadpool, Thundra and Medusa are obviously out of the running, along with Dragon Man, Beetle (Abner Jenkins) and the various former Salem's Seven demon-witches which have mostly Face Turned.

[JudicatorPrime]

1. "Frightful" should have been replaced with "Fearsome" or "Furious." I love Stan, but come on, let's at least go with a nomenclature that projects a serious threat level. This team scares no one.

2. What is their motivation again? Are they really a foil for the FF? If so, why aren't they a family, not just a bunch of random pieces thrown together for the sake of a filler story? Give them a deep wound, no matter how irrational, and turn them loose on the world.

3. Roster matters. As some have suggested, the Wizard is lame. He should be killed off. Build around powerful, more sinister characters. Start with a villain that has a well-documented history of killing heroes. The Punisher used to kill people all of the time. Need a supervillain equivalent. If said person doesn't exist, create him.

If I had a say...the Frightful Four:

King Hyperion
Psycho-Man
Half-life
Powerhouse

[The Overlord]

When they made their debut under Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, they were more formidable. No one has really done a good job with them in all the years since. I can't remember the last time Bentley Whitman aka the Wizard even appeared anywhere. I think if they are brought back they should get a fresh start with 4 entirely new characters.

I am bringing this thread back to ask an interesting question, is there anything that could be done to make Wizard or Trapster or any of the Frightful Four into relevant and interesting characters in 2023/2024 or should they just be in limbo? Because if all the writers do with the Frightful Four is recycle stories from the 60s, maybe they shouldn't be used, but maybe a writer could come up with something new and interesting for them.

[Gaastra]

What did you think of this version of the frightful four?

[IMG][/IMG]

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

They were a cool idea and I'd use them in a potential FF film. In hindsight I would've used them in FF2 instead of Glactus and Silver Surfer.

[The Overlord]

They were a cool idea and I'd use them in a potential FF film. In hindsight I would've used them in FF2 instead of Glactus and Silver Surfer.

But what makes Wizard a compelling enough villain to be the Big Bad of an FF film?

Feels like the Wizard and the Frightful Fright would be better off as comic relief villains who get defeated within in the first 10 minutes or as Mercs working for a more interesting villain or having Doom form the Frightful Four and filling it with heavy hitters right away.

In truth, I think Wizard would be better served being a second in command rather than the main villain in a film. Instead of being a fourth rate Dr. Doom knock off, being a technically gifted, but professional and ruthless Merc field leader would make him stand out more.

[Sutekh]

I am bringing this thread back to ask an interesting question, is there anything that could be done to make Wizard or Trapster or any of the Frightful Four into relevant and interesting characters in 2023/2024 or should they just be in limbo? Because if all the writers do with the Frightful Four is recycle stories from the 60s, maybe they shouldn't be used, but maybe a writer could come up with something new and interesting for them.

The Wizard is a super-genius who has gravity tech that can, in theory, emulate some of the tricks of Graviton. Graviton himself was a dim bulb, despite being an actual scientist, with no real vision or drive other than bwa-ha-ha-the-power! It took Moonstone doin' some 'splainin' before he really became a threat, murdering an entire backup team of Thunderbolts. (Cardinal 2, Beetle's 2 through 4, we hardly knew ye!) I could see the Wizard doing some Graviton level grav-fu, and turning into a major threat.

"Attention heroes, I've lifted Madison Square Garden, and the 20,000 people in it watching the show, 2000' feet into the air. The air is thin and cold here, people are scared and suffering. There's a deadman switch that will cause the anti-grav generators to fail (which they will also do if tampered with) if I don't input the biometric code. Unless you can catch a falling stadium in time and carefully enough to keep it together and not kill the 20,000 people (and Elton John, giving his seventeenth 'final' Farewell Tour) inside it, you'll give me... (pinkie to lip, Dr. Evil-style) A billion dollars!"

[The Overlord]

The Wizard is a super-genius who has gravity tech that can, in theory, emulate some of the tricks of Graviton. Graviton himself was a dim bulb, despite being an actual scientist, with no real vision or drive other than bwa-ha-ha-the-power! It took Moonstone doin' some 'splainin' before he really became a threat, murdering an entire backup team of Thunderbolts. (Cardinal 2, Beetle's 2 through 4, we hardly knew ye!) I could see the Wizard doing some Graviton level grav-fu, and turning into a major threat.

"Attention heroes, I've lifted Madison Square Garden, and the 20,000 people in it watching the show, 2000' feet into the air. The air is thin and cold here, people are scared and suffering. There's a deadman switch that will cause the anti-grav generators to fail (which they will also do if tampered with) if I don't input the biometric code. Unless you catch the falling stadium in time and carefully enough to keep it together and not kill the 20,000 people (and Elton John, giving his seventeenth 'final' Farewell Tour) inside it, you'll give me... (pinkie to lip, Dr. Evil-style) A billion dollars!"

One, that kinda confirms what I have been saying, that Wizard would be dangerous if he focused far more on general criminal villainy rather than trying to kill the Fantastic Four with a Frightful Four, his grudge against the FF is boring and should be dropped.

Two, that doesn't necessarily make Wizard a compelling character, I think developing the character is more important than developing his gimmicks, why he is a supervillain, what makes him tick and why is that compelling. Do more character work with him so he is not a fourth-rate Doom knockoff.

[DrNewGod]

I'm in the camp of those saying any villain that can't be compelling (except those like the Toad, who were created to be limp noodles) represent a failing of the writer more than the character.

Maybe the concept of the Frightful just doesn't work anymore.

There may be some truth in that.

If you go back to their origins, 3/4 of the members were actually Human Torch foes from his feature in Strange Tales and Spider-Man guest gigs, with Madam Medusa (as she was styled then) a mysterious add-on to the group. Initially, they were out for revenge on Johnny, and the broader FF hate came later.

A Frightful Four plot could be done well, and just hasn't been in a while. After all, The Masters of Evil were something of a dated concept until "Under Siege."

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

But what makes Wizard a compelling enough villain to be the Big Bad of an FF film?

Feels like the Wizard and the Frightful Fright would be better off as comic relief villains who get defeated within in the first 10 minutes or as Mercs working for a more interesting villain or having Doom form the Frightful Four and filling it with heavy hitters right away.

In truth, I think Wizard would be better served being a second in command rather than the main villain in a film. Instead of being a fourth rate Dr. Doom knock off, being a technically gifted, but professional and ruthless Merc field leader would make him stand out more.

He's not the main villian- the group is so he doesn't need that much incentive beyond a grudge against Reed and the idea of doing a teamup.

[The Overlord]

I'm in the camp of those saying any villain that can't be compelling (except those like the Toad, who were created to be limp noodles) represent a failing of the writer more than the character.

Sure, but a D-student doesn't get an A just because they can potentially get an A.

The problem with Wizard is nothing sticks with him besides being a cliched villain, even that whole mental breakdown and obsession with God he had just went away, blamed on a tumor in his brain rather than used to explore his personality.

There may be some truth in that.

If you go back to their origins, 3/4 of the members were actually Human Torch foes from his feature in Strange Tales and Spider-Man guest gigs, with Madam Medusa (as she was styled then) a mysterious add-on to the group. Initially, they were out for revenge on Johnny, and the broader FF hate came later.

A Frightful Four plot could be done well, and just hasn't been in a while. After all, The Masters of Evil were something of a dated concept until "Under Siege."

Sure, but if you want an FF version of Seige, Wizard needs to become a better leader and tactician and use a Frightful Fourteen next time.

He's not the main villian- the group is so he doesn't need that much incentive beyond a grudge against Reed and the idea of doing a teamup.

If Wizard is the leader of the group and he is not taking orders from someone else, he would be the main villain. He would be the one driving the plot and the MCU really doesn't need another lame, throw-away villain after the villain from the Marvels was a total snooze.

Either Wizard should just work for a better villain or you would expand the character a lot to make him worthy to be the Big Bad of a film. Why not use Mad Thinker instead of the Wizard, at least he has a better gimmick.

[shooshoomanjoe]

What did you think of this version of the frightful four?

[IMG][/IMG]

This came out around the time I started reading comics so this is my favorite team. Whatever happened with Huntara? Being the sister of Mr. Fantastic, I thought they were going to make her into a major character.