Dark Web: Finale Reviews/Spoilers

[Hulkout42]

I really feel for Ben Reilly fans. This was not a great event for him. I'm also echoing the question why Maddie and Jean couldn't help Peter share his memories. I feel like Maddie's redemption created some plot holes. And while I'm glad Madelyne got redemption, it feels like she got off way too easy this event.

Also...I don't love Madelyne vibing in a Limbo embassy. It seems almost too much of a copy of Jean vibing in the Krakoa embassy. I was hoping for something to set her apart more.

This basically sums up my issue with all this, because she did not receive any punishment for her part in this disaster and Ben got fucked over again.

Seriously, if the plan was to have Madelyne reconcile with Jean, then that should have been done in a giant size issue at most, but because she is part of this crossover where she teams up with Ben to unleash demons on NY which caused chaos and more than likely killed people but she doesn't get any heat for that just takes away from that redemption and makes me dislike her heavily. Also i am just going to echo the sentiment, her and Jean could have fized him...why was that at least not an option at the end of this? Why is the option basically he still is turned into a villain that hates Peter for something that was not his fault and is stuck in a fake paradise? This is just another in a long list of foolish decisions Marvel has done with their characters in recent years.

[Lukmendes]

Guys, Maddie discovered that people like boobs. She really isn't that special.

Hey now, she weaponized them to get her army back, not something you can say anyone can do .

Gotta be honest never had much experience with Madelyne so I just came out of this really hating her. Got off waaaaaaaay too easy that I'm in "Cry me a river about your fucking problems".

Yeah, they didn't do a good job at making Madelyne look good even if you just read the events of this comic.

Like, yeah, sure, she was sad once or twice, but she caused a demon invasion, and isn't that apologetic over it... Makes it hard to have a high opinion on her.

It's a bit worse if you realize that she makes no effort to talk with the son she so desperately wants to have some memories of, that and, y'know, how she tried to kill Cable back in Inferno, which Dark Web completely glosses over...

Honestly, Dark Web killed my interest in Madelyne, at least for now, she's looking like the kind of ******* character who'll get to do horrible things and get away with it, and just Young Justice cartoon doing that with the heroes annoy me enough...

Plus I read this primarily to keep up with Venom so the fact Maddie lied to Eddie about helping him find his son, and used him in such a way that left him utterly destroyed and on the path to becoming Meridus pisses me off because of how little Maddie made of it. At most Eddie deserves to impale her with that chainsaw arm of his.

And unlike the demon invasion, she doesn't look like she regrets this at any point, 'cause at least she does show some regret over the demon invasion lol.

Who in their right mind --rejected, starved, in need of healing, or otherwise -- is gonna look at that "Embassy" and say to themselves, "Well, here goes. You tried the apps. You tried that juice cleanse. You gave it your all. Still feeling pretty worthless. Let's give THIS a shot"

This is unhinged.

"My life is already hell, so I might as well go to its embassy."

It just occurred to me - Ben's whole problem is to do with his memories, right? The X-Men have so many telepaths, including Jean, who was right there throughout this whole conflict. Why did no one make an offer to try and help him telepathically?

According to Nick Lowe, Spidey wouldn't pirate comics, you can stretch it and realize that he also wouldn't want his own memories to be pirated .

That's the main lesson here which is why I have no particular attachment to creators. I mainly judge things on it's own merits. At the end of the day a good story is good and a bad story is bad. Past credentials don't guarantee one or the other.

I think the same-ish, although if a writer did good stuff before, I'll kinda expect to be fun, and if a writer did bad stuff before, I'll be wary of it.

Although in the end, when I read something, I'll judge the work by itself, so if a writer fucked up before and the story is good, then this story is good and the previous one is bad, and that's all, same for vice versa.

Dark Web has been such a disappointing story. As a fan of Madelyne Pryor, Ben Reilly, Spider-Man, the X-Men and Zeb Wells' writing, this was at the very top of my list of comics I was looking forward to at the start of 2023.

Instead we got a good tie-in mini with Dark Web: X-Men but a very mediocre main story in Amazing Spider-Man. Basically the only thing I liked about it was how it repositioned Maddie as less of an antagonist to the X-Men and her reconciliation with Jean... that and the beautiful artwork by everyone involved I guess. But everything else has been utterly forgettable.

Man, that is a lot of reasons to be disappointed lol.

Thank you, Rift, for your diligence in reading and reviewing.

I quit the X titles after Hickman left, but I keep checking back here, on Twitter and Reddit, too, checking spoilers. I am so glad I didn’t spend money on this.

Limbo opened an embassy in the US, huh? How is that supposed to work? We’ve gone from the world outside your window, to the utterly unrecognizable. Which US political party is going to establish diplomatic relations with the rulers and residents of, basically, Hell? Does that sound realistic in any approximation of reality? No, it is not realistic at all.

Then there’s the matter of the embassy itself. So, New York City is the capital of the US now? I did not know that. Oh, wait! It’s not! Writer Zeb Wells and editor Nick Lowe are apparently so ignorant in the workings of real life that they apparently don’t know, there are NO embassies in New York. Embassies exist only in capital cities. At most, a diplomatic mission in New York might be recognized as a consulate, but it’s not an embassy. Say what you will of Hickman, Duggan and Jordan, but they weren’t so ill-informed as to make a basic mistake like that.

Marvel Comics and CB Cebulski, if you are paying attention, enough of this crap! Bring back Hickman. End the insanity and stupidity of “the Krakoan era.” Let Hickman finish his story. We’ve had enough of this nonsense.

Also, why is Ben Reilly or “Chasm” wearing a giant cockroach on the front of his costume? Isn’t he Spider-Man family? I didn’t know Marvel had radioactive cockroaches running around,

Yes. Embassies are the diplomatic mission of a foreign country in another country’s capital.

If a diplomatic mission has other business in other countries’ cities that are not the capital, it might have an office or building called a consulate.

There are other offices and terms for diplomatic missions with even less recognition between the nations involved.

Also, you can’t just establish a diplomatic mission because your country wants one. The host country has to accept your diplomatic mission. Often, this involves years of diplomacy, particularly between hostile nations. You think the US would just let in a bunch of demons who just invaded and attacked New York? That doesn’t make much sense, does it?

Duggan was pretty careful and informed to point out the Treehouse was a consulate, not an embassy.

Wells and Lowe apparently don’t know or don’t care, or both, which is typical of a lot of the garbage the post-Hickman Krakoan era has produced, IMO.

I’d still like to know why Chasm has a giant glowing green cockroach on his tunic. If anyone knows, please tell me.

Huh, didn't know all of this, guess the story was worth it since it led to me learning something interesting, at least.

How Dark Web should have ended

Madelyne: Jean, can I have my memories back?
Jean: Okey-Dokey!

(roll credits)

Reminds me of Inhumans vs X-Men: "Why didn't you just tell me the Terrigen Clouds were toxic to mutants?" =D

If there is a lesson to learn from events like these is that poor communication kills.

I'll say it makes some sense for Madelyne's character to not have asked (And Jean even points out she could have just asked), but Ben is just being a dumbass...

You're not the only one to make that mistake. Madelyne's evil alter ego (or possessing demon) in Inferno was the Goblin Queen. Goblyn was a different character:
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Goblyn_(Earth-616)

I may be wrong, but didn't marvel wiki have it as "Goblyn Queen" at some point?

Like even before I checked out some X-Men stuff more often, I saw it as "Goblyn" at least once, but then again, I don't remember exactly where, maybe it was just someone else talking about her...

[pkingdom]

As someone who generally rooted for Maddie for years, this event made me hate her. Ben has been the biggest victim in all of this! He's acting like this because he's had his memories tampered with to begin with, so Maddie (and everyone around her too, really) putting all the blame on him and taking charge for 'dealing' with him afterwards is laughable. She's responsible for everything! Why is everyone OK with her?!

Redemption stories require three things to work, in my opinion. 1) The character has to be genuinely sorry about what they did, 2) they have to take responsibility for what they did, 3) they have to work to make amends, in particular by focusing on the people they hurt. Obviously this is different for every reader. But because the narrative just kind of forgets that Maddie is largely responsible, it makes her redemption fall flat. instead she just acts haughty and prideful, at suffers no consequences.

And the less said about that stupid embassy the better.

[sunofdarkchild]

To be fair, Marvel has usually failed at redemption stories in the X-Men. Rogue is generally considered a successful redemption, but she didn't come to the X-Men because she felt bad about what she did, but because of how the consequences of her actions affected her. I believe the first time she expressed remorse for what she did to Ms. Marvel was in Uncanny 203, over 30 issues after she joined the X-Men. Emma never got a redemption. She just woke up one day and Xavier decided after her she was suddenly good enough to teach at his school despite all the horrible things she'd done with the Hellfire Club. Apocalypse never regretted a single thing he'd done and somehow still got a redemption story. Claremont putting so much work into redeeming Magneto is the exception, not the rule, unfortunately. It's why I was pissed off that Magneto was the one who was made to return to villainy as soon as Claremont left while other characters got to stay heroes for decades after doing little more than switching sides on a dime.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Finally picked this up this morning. Anyone else laughed their asses off at the embassy nonsense?

I mean, yeah, yeah, nobody expected Maddie to be fairly held accountable for her actual actions, but her being unfairly rewarded in such a way was a whole other level of bonkers, lol. Oh well.

[scouse mouse]

I love Maddy so I'm sort of glad she got her redemption even though she didn't really deserve it lol. And I'm disappointed that we only had a brief glimpse of the underboob look before she went back to the spikey monstrosity she now wears. The Spidey parts were like everything else Zeb has written since her took over: ****!

[Exodus]

Well, motherly love is the power that will calm every crazy b*tch down. Thank you, Marvel! Such a beautiful moment of cutting-edge feminist story-telling!!!

Of course, you couldn't do the same with Spider-clone-dude.

[Huntsman Spider]

Well, motherly love is the power that will calm every crazy b*tch down. Thank you, Marvel! Such a beautiful moment of cutting-edge feminist story-telling!!!

Of course, you couldn't do the same with Spider-clone-dude.

That's a fair point there. I think Madelyne's redemption would (or could) have gone over better if the inciting incident, the one that started the domino fall leading to her initial descent into villainy, had been addressed and resolved as well. I speak, of course, of Scott Summers/Cyclops and his seeming abandonment of her (and their son) once Jean Grey was found to be alive. Granted, circumstances did conspire to prevent him from really meaningfully clearing the air with her before she became the Goblin Queen, and then that whole mess became something that was used by Marvel editorial to retroactively justify or absolve him of any responsibility for what became of Madelyne, though it is still something that should weigh a bit heavier on the characters than it has.

And yes, Ben Reilly --- or The Chasm Formerly Known as Ben Reilly, as I call him --- was done dirty in this whole thing.

[vbeacon]

Of all the Sinister stories running around now, we got nothing between Maddie and Sinister? Even after the most recent Hellions run? It's like the writers didn't want Maddie to solve ANY of her real demons. They just wanted to fabricate contrived tension between Madelyn and Jean so that they could justify some scenes where she and Jean duke it out and Madelyn parades around like some super spooky Halloween witch that people are supposed to see as the authority of Limbo.

Maybe they should have thought about a role Maddie could have served in the management of the Waiting Room, overseeing the lost souls who were denied the chance to fulfill the destiny of their first lives. Seems a little more on theme and it could have been her way of subverting Sinister's legacy on Krakoa with the resurrection protocols

[Huntsman Spider]

Of all the Sinister stories running around now, we got nothing between Maddie and Sinister? Even after the most recent Hellions run? It's like the writers didn't want Maddie to solve ANY of her real demons. They just wanted to fabricate contrived tension between Madelyn and Jean so that they could justify some scenes where she and Jean duke it out and Madelyn parades around like some super spooky Halloween witch that people are supposed to see as the authority of Limbo.

Maybe they should have thought about a role Maddie could have served in the management of the Waiting Room, overseeing the lost souls who were denied the chance to fulfill the destiny of their first lives. Seems a little more on theme and it could have been her way of subverting Sinister's legacy on Krakoa with the resurrection protocols

Yeah, especially after the last Sinister storyline involving Madelyne had Sinister surrounding himself with clones of her for some twisted self-amusement or something like that.

[Anodyne]

Hey now, she weaponized them to get her army back, not something you can say anyone can do .



Yeah, they didn't do a good job at making Madelyne look good even if you just read the events of this comic.

Like, yeah, sure, she was sad once or twice, but she caused a demon invasion, and isn't that apologetic over it... Makes it hard to have a high opinion on her.

It's a bit worse if you realize that she makes no effort to talk with the son she so desperately wants to have some memories of, that and, y'know, how she tried to kill Cable back in Inferno, which Dark Web completely glosses over...

Honestly, Dark Web killed my interest in Madelyne, at least for now, she's looking like the kind of ******* character who'll get to do horrible things and get away with it, and just Young Justice cartoon doing that with the heroes annoy me enough...



And unlike the demon invasion, she doesn't look like she regrets this at any point, 'cause at least she does show some regret over the demon invasion lol.



"My life is already hell, so I might as well go to its embassy."



According to Nick Lowe, Spidey wouldn't pirate comics, you can stretch it and realize that he also wouldn't want his own memories to be pirated .



I think the same-ish, although if a writer did good stuff before, I'll kinda expect to be fun, and if a writer did bad stuff before, I'll be wary of it.

Although in the end, when I read something, I'll judge the work by itself, so if a writer fucked up before and the story is good, then this story is good and the previous one is bad, and that's all, same for vice versa.



Man, that is a lot of reasons to be disappointed lol.





Huh, didn't know all of this, guess the story was worth it since it led to me learning something interesting, at least.





If there is a lesson to learn from events like these is that poor communication kills.

I'll say it makes some sense for Madelyne's character to not have asked (And Jean even points out she could have just asked), but Ben is just being a dumbass...



I may be wrong, but didn't marvel wiki have it as "Goblyn Queen" at some point?

Like even before I checked out some X-Men stuff more often, I saw it as "Goblyn" at least once, but then again, I don't remember exactly where, maybe it was just someone else talking about her...

I've often seen Maddie called "Goblyn Queen," and it annoys me every time. In Inferno it was "Goblin Queen."

[Thievery]

I haven't read the entire story yet but this event was definitely a mixed bag of good and bad.

The X-Men issues were definetely better than the Spider-Man issues.

I've always hoped that Maddie Pryor would get some form of redemption. But it really sucks the way that she got it. She invaded New York with an army of demons and got away with it completely with a pat on the back. Giving Maddie credit for helping to end the demon invasion and stop Chasm is like giving someone credit for saving a block of houses from burning down when that person deliberately started the fire to begin with. Maddie really isn't redeemed in a very satisfying manner in this story.

I'm not a fan of Ben Reilly, but I feel bad for the readers who are. He did the exact same things that Maddie did and was trashed by the other characters for it. I guess one way out of this for Ben would be to do a future story that reveals that Goblin Queen is still a villain and set Chasm up to take the fall. I doubt it happens though. And I wouldn't like it because Goblin Queen would still be a villain.

I guess that I'm in the minority here but I do like Hallows Eve and want to read more about her.

Edit: I have to say that I haven't read all the middle chapters yet. There was so much negative buzz that I actually skipped some things to get to the end faster. I can honestly say that I have never done that before because of online buzz. So it's possible that I missed some things.

[Triniking1234]

I hope Havok is in Uncanny Avengers cuz quitting Scott's team to simp for Maddie is ludicrous.

[Huntsman Spider]

I haven't read the entire story yet but this event was definitely a mixed bag of good and bad.

The X-Men issues were definetely better than the Spider-Man issues.

I've always hoped that Maddie Pryor would get some form of redemption. But it really sucks the way that she got it. She invaded New York with an army of demons and got away with it completely with a pat on the back. Giving Maddie credit for helping to end the demon invasion and stop Chasm is like giving someone credit for saving a block of houses from burning down when that person deliberately started the fire to begin with. Maddie really isn't redeemed in a very satisfying manner in this story.

I'm not a fan of Ben Reilly, but I feel bad for the readers who are. He did the exact same things that Maddie did and was trashed by the other characters for it. I guess one way out of this for Ben would be to do a future story that reveals that Goblin Queen is still a villain and set Chasm up to take the fall. I doubt it happens though. And I wouldn't like it because Goblin Queen would still be a villain.

I guess that I'm in the minority here but I do like Hallows Eve and want to read more about her.

Edit: I have to say that I haven't read all the middle chapters yet. There was so much negative buzz that I actually skipped some things to get to the end faster. I can honestly say that I have never done that before because of online buzz. So it's possible that I missed some things.

Cosigned, generally speaking, though I am a fan of Ben Reilly, so I appreciate your understanding and sympathy. And yes, I will be reading the Hallows' Eve mini, too, because I am a Spider-addict and can't stop myself. That, and I am curious to see if Erica Schultz can make a viable character direction for her.

[Havok83]

The Xmen side was good but shoehorning Spiderman into this was blah. Hated the ending