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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post
    You think so? Dan Garrett doesn't heave near the fanbases as the four you've mentioned, but.......as you say with a good writer/artist.....never say never.
    By definition, Kyle Rayner, Connor Hawke, Jaime Reyes, and Jason Rusch didn't have fanbases when they took over as Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Blue Beetle, and Firestorm.
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  2. #77
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    Hippolyta, if only to spare her from Amazons Attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    Jason Todd. His murderous unjailed ways don't fit with Batman and his principles, and his death (like Gwen Stacy's) should always be a lesson about consequences, fatal consequences when it comes to being a superhero/crime fighter.
    DC was already showing they didn't care about consequences when they debuted a new Robin only a year after Jason's death. To say nothing of how many deaths had been undone before Jason's resurrection.

  3. #78
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    When Tim was introduced, efforts were made not to just throw him into dangerous situations unprepared. Bruce insisted that he undergo a year's worth of training, with both Bruce and Dick serving as trainers; and even after Tim put on the costume, he decided that he wasn't ready yet, and took a trip to Europe to further prepare himself. So no, DC didn't show that they didn't care about consequences when they introduced Tim.

    I will agree that the revolving door of death had already begun to turn by the time Jason was resurrected. That said, it had only begun to turn: Oliver Queen was resurrected in 2000; a new version of Kara Zor-El was introduced in 2004; and Hal Jordan was reborn more or less simultaneously with Jason's return. At the time, that was pretty much it.
    Rogue wears rouge.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    By definition, Kyle Rayner, Connor Hawke, Jaime Reyes, and Jason Rusch didn't have fanbases when they took over as Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Blue Beetle, and Firestorm.
    It depends on the circumstances. Ronnie Raymond and Hal Jordan arguably getting screwed out of their positions wouldn't have provided their successors much support by default. I personally felt Ted Kord got screwed with his sensationalist death but the team behind Jaime Reyes played it smart by making him a different type of Blue Beetle who didn't get off on putting down his predecessor. I can't speak for the Green Arrow fans when Oliver Queen got blowed up and his son took the reigns.

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Oh, I'm not arguing that they're predecessors didn't get screwed. I'm just saying that the argument that you should only publish heroes who have established fanbases would have excluded Kyle, Connor, Jaime, and Jason from ever seeing the light of day in the first place.
    Rogue wears rouge.
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  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by edpower View Post
    What one resurrected DC Character would you choose to have stayed dead? And, since this is comics, after which death in some cases? Also, why?

    TIA.
    If Batman had stayed dead, I wouldn't have minded. I haven't really liked him since The Dark Knight (which I liked, but then everybody thought that's the way he should be all the time).

    Of course that might mean the death of DC Comics.
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Oh, I'm not arguing that they're predecessors didn't get screwed. I'm just saying that the argument that you should only publish heroes who have established fanbases would have excluded Kyle, Connor, Jaime, and Jason from ever seeing the light of day in the first place.
    I'll give you Connor and Jaime.

  8. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    By definition, Kyle Rayner, Connor Hawke, Jaime Reyes, and Jason Rusch didn't have fanbases when they took over as Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Blue Beetle, and Firestorm.
    No it's not the same definition because they had never been tried before, and as the four you listed are all largely of mixed or non European heritage, I doubt that any of them would be killed off, as it probably wouldn't be good optics at this point and time, so they don't really apply to the question.
    Last edited by Captain Nostalgia; 02-07-2023 at 08:48 PM.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    When Tim was introduced, efforts were made not to just throw him into dangerous situations unprepared. Bruce insisted that he undergo a year's worth of training, with both Bruce and Dick serving as trainers; and even after Tim put on the costume, he decided that he wasn't ready yet, and took a trip to Europe to further prepare himself. So no, DC didn't show that they didn't care about consequences when they introduced Tim.

    I will agree that the revolving door of death had already begun to turn by the time Jason was resurrected. That said, it had only begun to turn: Oliver Queen was resurrected in 2000; a new version of Kara Zor-El was introduced in 2004; and Hal Jordan was reborn more or less simultaneously with Jason's return. At the time, that was pretty much it.
    They killed off a Robin because a Batman writer hated the concept of a teenage and felt it was unrealistic for Batman to bring a kid into the vigilante life. And then a year later introduced a new Robin to take his place.

    You're forgetting Superman's death and resurrection in 90s and Wonder Woman who'd been killed twice and brought back twice. Circe, Raven and Artemis were also killed and then resurrected.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 02-07-2023 at 09:04 PM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat22 View Post
    It depends on the circumstances. Ronnie Raymond and Hal Jordan arguably getting screwed out of their positions wouldn't have provided their successors much support by default. I personally felt Ted Kord got screwed with his sensationalist death but the team behind Jaime Reyes played it smart by making him a different type of Blue Beetle who didn't get off on putting down his predecessor. I can't speak for the Green Arrow fans when Oliver Queen got blowed up and his son took the reigns.
    If anything, Ted Kord was treated with far more dignity on death than when he was alive.

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    You're forgetting Superman's death and resurrection in 90s and Wonder Woman who'd been killed twice and brought back twice. Circe, Raven and Artemis were also killed and then resurrected.
    I don't count deaths where the resurrection was on the schedule even before the character died.
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I don't count deaths where the resurrection was on the schedule even before the character died.
    Circe's resurrection at the least was not planned and I absolutely would count deaths that were done with the intent of being undone immediately because that's even stronger proof that death has no meaning in DC.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If anything, Ted Kord was treated with far more dignity on death than when he was alive.
    That's kind of like pissing on a guy's leg and saying it's raining.

    While Ted was alive, he had his own series before joining the successful Giffen/DeMatteis Justice League run. He changed with the times to the Extreme Justice title, and naturally was left out of Grant Morrison's league since he wasn't a founding member nor part of the Bat- or Super- family. Ted still continued to make sporadic appearances to the appreciation of his fans.

    In death, Ted got the dignity of being a mystery corpse on a cover, a Cassandra figure, and a stepping stone for other heroes' continuing or all-new adventures. Yay for Ted.
    Last edited by bat22; 02-07-2023 at 09:26 PM.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat22 View Post
    That's kind of like pissing on a guy's leg and saying it's raining.

    While Ted was alive, he had his own series before joining the successful Giffen/DeMatteis Justice League run. He changed with the times to the Extreme Justice title, and naturally was left out of Grant Morrison's league since he wasn't a founding member nor part of the Bat- or Super- family. Ted still continued to make sporadic appearances to the appreciation of his fans.

    In death, Ted got the dignity of being a Cassandra figure as well as a stepping stone for other heroes' continuing or all-new adventures. Yay.
    Ted was treated as a laughing stock before his death. Even Giffen said he could never take him seriously because of his name.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Ted was treated as a laughing stock before his death. Even Giffen said he could never take him seriously because of his name.
    Giffen's book worked partly because of the irreverence afforded its superhero cast. Other writers had the option to treat Ted more respectfully, which they did.

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