Bishop: War College #1 - Review/Spoilers

[JB]

Ok. Hope not killing him doesnt mean she forgives him. Just means that she is better then him and has the ability to take the high road. And same for Cable, high roads doesnt mean forgiveness. Correct me if I am wrong but has the words I forgive you been said out loud by Hope or Cable? Unless it is said out loud and spelled out word for word it is up to interpretation. And lets not even touch on the fact that altering someones mind doesnt erase the past. You can alter a persons future but not change there past. It happened, PERIOD! Storm changed his future mind not his past mind. So what are the five doing while hope is at qc meetings? They have downtime. Just because it has not really been shown much doesnt mean they spend 24/7 doing resurrections. And honestly I think it is a disservice to the characters of the five. It makes it seem like the five are there only for resurrections and not allowed to have a life outside of that. Thats no life.

My whole point is that they've decided to move forward and they don't have to forgive him to do that. He "served his time" by being held in the bunker willingly and Hope and he had a conversation where she's decided to move on. That's all canon now from over 10 years ago and why it has barely been brought up since. And again I'll agree to disagree regarding his choice to go to Tempo, but I do agree that the Five should be utilized more outside of resurrections.

[Steroid]

I agree that moving forward doesn't have to include forgiveness. The big thing is that Bishop isn't the only person that has done bad shit that's in a leadership position. Hell the QC had Sinister and Apocalypse as members not to mention Jean is leading a team yet somehow no one has any problems with that.

[JB]

I agree that moving forward doesn't have to include forgiveness. The big thing is that Bishop isn't the only person that has done bad shit that's in a leadership position. Hell the QC had Sinister and Apocalypse as members not to mention Jean is leading a team yet somehow no one has any problems with that.

Exactly. So many heroes have gone through redemption and the current era is all about moving forward from past crimes. What I'm interested in is seeing Bishop deal with and hopefully overcome the trauma we see he still has from his childhood.

[Steroid]

Exactly. So many heroes have gone through redemption and the current era is all about moving forward from past crimes. What I'm interested in is seeing Bishop deal with and hopefully overcome the trauma we see he still has from his childhood.

That is absolutely something I would love to be explored.

[king81992]

Story went in an unexpected directon.

[BobbysWorld]

Hey, maybe anyone only interested in talking about how Bishop is a bad, bad man who shouldn't have stories that aren't talking about him being a bad, bad man could take that point literally anywhere else (except for the Bishop Appreciation thread) so that people who actually want to talk about THIS story and the things that DID happen in it and Bishop's characterization HERE could like. Do that. Without having to wade through revisitations of an extremely bad, piece of shit storyline from over ten years ago that most people are happy to put behind us because turning the X-book's highest profile black man into a genocidal baby-killer was certainly A Choice, all right.

Like, if how that was resolved didn't work for you, great, but like.....the new thread button is free real estate and seems a much better option for that conversation than trying to make THIS story, that many people are actually interested in, all about THAT story, which most people were decidedly NOT interested in even a decade ago when it actually happened, let alone this many years later.

[The Twilight Mexican]

I mean if Hope and Cable can make peace with Bishop and move forward, I don't see why others can't.

It's difficult for the literal billions of people he killed to move forward, what with being dead and such.

But let's see if it gets addressed further.

I sure AF hope so, but I've been hoping for that for a very long time and am always disappointed.

At what point did we stop allowing for redemption in comic books?

Nowhere. But at what point did we see Bishop wrestling with the severity of what he did? Not just what he did to Hope, but to billions of others? Where's his journey of self-imposed suffering for that and declaration to make up for it as much as possible, in the biggest and smallest of ways, until he inevitably goes down in flames himself, etc.?

I at least want to see a half-assed effort at it, but it's like no writer wants to touch it because they can't figure out how to approach it.

Not that it would be easy to do, mind you, but damn. At least try, somebody, if you want to ask me to believe in this dude having any nuance to him again.

I guess the same way many other allies that have been responsible for mass death are welcomed back to the fold. Why would, or should Bishop be the lone exception???

He shouldn't be, but I personally need to see more than him saving Hope one time to decide the horrific cruelty he unleashed on the entire population of Earth is swept away.

I agree that moving forward doesn't have to include forgiveness. The big thing is that Bishop isn't the only person that has done bad shit that's in a leadership position. Hell the QC had Sinister and Apocalypse as members not to mention Jean is leading a team yet somehow no one has any problems with that.

Tons of people have problems with that stuff. It's said around here almost every day (or at least every issue) that Sinister and Apocalypse should have never been allowed anywhere near a position of authority, as well as that people like them, Selene, and Gorgon had gone too far to even be allowed to set foot on the island.

As for Jean, we've seen her go through a lot of self-reflection and striving for redemption over the years. That's precisely the kind of depiction we haven't gotten for Bishop.

Compare to what we've seen done with Wanda in a comparable timeframe. Bishop's "redemption" may as well be an editor's asterisk box telling us "Bishop has been redeemed as much as possible. You've just not seen it."

Bishop was one of my favorite characters growing up as a kid in the 90s, for the record, so this isn't me being difficult for the sake of being difficult.

[JB]

Hey, maybe anyone only interested in talking about how Bishop is a bad, bad man who shouldn't have stories that aren't talking about him being a bad, bad man could take that point literally anywhere else (except for the Bishop Appreciation thread) so that people who actually want to talk about THIS story and the things that DID happen in it and Bishop's characterization HERE could like. Do that. Without having to wade through revisitations of an extremely bad, piece of shit storyline from over ten years ago that most people are happy to put behind us because turning the X-book's highest profile black man into a genocidal baby-killer was certainly A Choice, all right.

Like, if how that was resolved didn't work for you, great, but like.....the new thread button is free real estate and seems a much better option for that conversation than trying to make THIS story, that many people are actually interested in, all about THAT story, which most people were decidedly NOT interested in even a decade ago when it actually happened, let alone this many years later.

BobbysWorld serves it piping hot.

Nowhere. But at what point did we see Bishop wrestling with the severity of what he did? Not just what he did to Hope, but to billions of others? Where's his journey of self-imposed suffering for that and declaration to make up for it as much as possible, in the biggest and smallest of ways, until he inevitably goes down in flames himself, etc.?

I at least want to see a half-assed effort at it, but it's like no writer wants to touch it because they can't figure out how to approach it.

Not that it would be easy to do, mind you, but damn. At least try, somebody, if you want to ask me to believe in this dude having any nuance to him again.


He shouldn't be, but I personally need to see more than him saving Hope one time to decide the horrific cruelty he unleashed on the entire population of Earth is swept away.

Compare to what we've seen some with Wanda in a comparable timeframe. Bishop's "redemption" may as well be an editor's asterisk box telling us "Bishop has been redeemed as much as possible. You've just not seen it."

Bishop was one of my favorite characters growing up as a kid in the 90s, for the record, so this isn't me being difficult for the sake of being difficult.

Check out Humphries' Uncanny X-Force #5. Betsy and Storm do a deep dive through Bishop's mind and learn about what he did when he was thrown into the far future. He met a people called the Order that helped him rehabilitate and deal with his past, and we learn about his relationship with the little girl named Amber. It may not be exactly what you're looking for but it features some of the healing and being stripped down close to nothing he trudged through.

[The Twilight Mexican]

I appreciate that recommendation @Jbenito -- truly, thank you! Sadly, that's where my disappointment began. ='(

[Steroid]

Hey, maybe anyone only interested in talking about how Bishop is a bad, bad man who shouldn't have stories that aren't talking about him being a bad, bad man could take that point literally anywhere else (except for the Bishop Appreciation thread) so that people who actually want to talk about THIS story and the things that DID happen in it and Bishop's characterization HERE could like. Do that. Without having to wade through revisitations of an extremely bad, piece of shit storyline from over ten years ago that most people are happy to put behind us because turning the X-book's highest profile black man into a genocidal baby-killer was certainly A Choice, all right.

Like, if how that was resolved didn't work for you, great, but like.....the new thread button is free real estate and seems a much better option for that conversation than trying to make THIS story, that many people are actually interested in, all about THAT story, which most people were decidedly NOT interested in even a decade ago when it actually happened, let alone this many years later.

I couldn't agree more.

[CoCoBandz]

So Based Scott and Jean are finally here.

[dragon1440]

I couldn't agree more.

So your saying you want to ignore characters past to fit them in the story you want told. 1-A characters past is DIRECTLY applicable to future and current stories. What a character has done in the past should factor in the current characterization. Thats with any character it should. 2- Ignoring(and retcon in the larger scheme of things) a characters past to fit the writers characterzation....... is that something that is complined about on these boards almost daily. For example, ignoring/retcon Moria's past to fit the current story. I swear I see people complaining about Moria's past being ignored/retcon almost daily to fit how Hickman wanted her to factor in his story. Yet your asking for the same thing here of Bishop. Cant have your cake and eat it to.

[Steroid]

So your saying you want to ignore characters past to fit them in the story you want told. 1-A characters past is DIRECTLY applicable to future and current stories. What a character has done in the past should factor in the current characterization. Thats with any character it should. 2- Ignoring(and retcon in the larger scheme of things) a characters past to fit the writers characterzation....... is that something that is complined about on these boards almost daily. For example, ignoring/retcon Moria's past to fit the current story. I swear I see people complaining about Moria's past being ignored/retcon almost daily to fit how Hickman wanted her to factor in his story. Yet your asking for the same thing here of Bishop. Cant have your cake and eat it to.

Ok for one I never had a problem with the Moira issue so I'm not trying to have my cake and eat it too. And yes I'm absolutely fine with ignoring the BS that happened in the past with Bishop and Messiah Complex. Clearly you don't like Bishop and that's cool it just makes zero sense to me why someone would buy a book starring a character they don't like. Regardless we can agree to disagree as this thread should be about the issue and story in this issue.

[dragon1440]

Ok for one I never had a problem with the Moira issue so I'm not trying to have my cake and eat it too. And yes I'm absolutely fine with ignoring the BS that happened in the past with Bishop and Messiah Complex. Clearly you don't like Bishop and that's cool it just makes zero sense to me why someone would buy a book starring a character they don't like. Regardless we can agree to disagree as this thread should be about the issue and story in this issue.

Ok last point I am going to make because its obvious you have a crush on Bishop (btw no I dont hate him I just see the character he is not who I want him to be). Was the Bishop Hope thing brought up IN UNIVERSE by Dani in this issue? The answer is yes. Terefore it is relevant to this thread If you cant understand my logic then I dont know a better way to explain the relevance here. I didnt just pick it out of the air, it was mentioned in this book. Also I dont buy everything, but I do read it. People still trade and loan comics to each other. And I have the right to feel and express how I am feeling considering it was mentioned in the book. It is not out of the blue. It is relevant to this thread because it was brought up in this comic.

[dkrook]

Ok. Hope not killing him doesnt mean she forgives him. Just means that she is better then him and has the ability to take the high road. And same for Cable, high roads doesnt mean forgiveness. Correct me if I am wrong but has the words I forgive you been said out loud by Hope or Cable? Unless it is said out loud and spelled out word for word it is up to interpretation. And lets not even touch on the fact that altering someones mind doesnt erase the past. You can alter a persons future but not change there past. It happened, PERIOD! Storm changed his future mind not his past mind. So what are the five doing while hope is at qc meetings? They have downtime. Just because it has not really been shown much doesnt mean they spend 24/7 doing resurrections. And honestly I think it is a disservice to the characters of the five. It makes it seem like the five are there only for resurrections and not allowed to have a life outside of that. Thats no life.

Geez, we get it. Men like Bishop can never be forgiven, and allowed to be trusted. I wonder why you single him out as beyond redemption?