Charles the Strawman

[vbeacon]

In looking at all of Xavier's appearances and relationships since the beginning of the Krakoan Age, I can't help but feel like the X Office has been scapegoating him for most things going wrong right now.

Relationship with Legion? It's always been bad, but now let's make Xavier become an even worse father by retconning Legion's birth to be the mechanations of his parents AND make Xavier perpetually unable to sustain a healthy developing relationship with Legion by making him f-up every opportunity he gets.

Magneto dies with the warning to Storm that we must be wary of good men like Charles. Is Xavier really worse than Magneto here or does Magneto get his sins washed away because he's a bad ass?

Emma Frost feels like Xavier (and Magneto) dealt in bad faith with her, but let's be honest it's mostly Xavier. She...literally used to murder people with Shaw and she's even forgiven Shaw after murdering Kate? But Xavier is unforgivable for trying to make the Krakoan experiment work before entrusting its secrets to the the QC?

I think thematically what frustrates me the most is that we are being fed narrative that Xavier is bad for being manipulative and trying to manufacture outcomes in his relationships and is a hypocrit for saying he is a good man to do all this. But the real world is complicated, politicians and statesmen are complicated and the implications of their work are complex and operate in shades of grey.

I'm not asking for pro-Xavier nostalgia from the past, but I feel like we're losing a lot of complexity in storytelling by undermining the work that Xavier has done in keeping his society functioning. It feels like a very gen Z take on the character - oh gotcha you're a problematic politician and cancelled and you're a failure in all aspects of your life. Its like, let's take this iconic figure and "deconstruct" him because that's edgy and the only way we can make him seem different than previous iterations.

Our characterization of Xavier has become so bad, it's gotten to the point where Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister get less criticism than Xavier nowadays, and yes the standards are different for villains, but we've come to a point narratively where we might think that Apocalypse would have done a better job at steering the QC.

At the same time, I do recognize he is a bad man, a bad dad, and a bad colleague for all of the reasons above. So what do we think are ways moving forward with the character that respects the intricacies of what this character and his character arc are trying to do? Or is his character going down with the Krakoan ship?

[Psycwave]

Charles Xavier is Krakoa's greatest hero. He's just misunderstood.

[Agent Grayson]

I would like to see a return to a more heroic Xavier as opposed to the, at times, outright villainous version we've had recently. However, I do think the character is at his best when there are shades of grey. Gillen's characterisation of him in Immortal X-Men #10 was one of my favourite depictions of him in a long time - a good man who's trying to do his best for a noble cause, who has perhaps become too comfortable working in morally dubious ways to achieve his goals but has the self-awareness to recognise how far he has come and keeps from going over the precipice.

This is not only an opportunity for a great character study, but it also sets up complex and interesting dynamics with the other X-Men. I read a 90s issue recently - I can't remember which - where Storm challenged him when he asked her to do something shady for the greater good. That space for a clash between Xavier and his former/current students is ripe for drama.

Unfortunately, a lot of writers seem to struggle straddling this line (or just aren't interested in doing so) and write him as a villain or anti-hero, which loses all the nuance and just makes you wonder why anyone would even be listening to him anymore.

[Diammandis]

In looking at all of Xavier's appearances and relationships since the beginning of the Krakoan Age, I can't help but feel like the X Office has been scapegoating him for most things going wrong right now.

Relationship with Legion? It's always been bad, but now let's make Xavier become an even worse father by retconning Legion's birth to be the mechanations of his parents AND make Xavier perpetually unable to sustain a healthy developing relationship with Legion by making him f-up every opportunity he gets.

Magneto dies with the warning to Storm that we must be wary of good men like Charles. Is Xavier really worse than Magneto here or does Magneto get his sins washed away because he's a bad ass?

Emma Frost feels like Xavier (and Magneto) dealt in bad faith with her, but let's be honest it's mostly Xavier. She...literally used to murder people with Shaw and she's even forgiven Shaw after murdering Kate? But Xavier is unforgivable for trying to make the Krakoan experiment work before entrusting its secrets to the the QC?

I think thematically what frustrates me the most is that we are being fed narrative that Xavier is bad for being manipulative and trying to manufacture outcomes in his relationships and is a hypocrit for saying he is a good man to do all this. But the real world is complicated, politicians and statesmen are complicated and the implications of their work are complex and operate in shades of grey.

I'm not asking for pro-Xavier nostalgia from the past, but I feel like we're losing a lot of complexity in storytelling by undermining the work that Xavier has done in keeping his society functioning. It feels like a very gen Z take on the character - oh gotcha you're a problematic politician and cancelled and you're a failure in all aspects of your life. Its like, let's take this iconic figure and "deconstruct" him because that's edgy and the only way we can make him seem different than previous iterations.

Our characterization of Xavier has become so bad, it's gotten to the point where Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister get less criticism than Xavier nowadays, and yes the standards are different for villains, but we've come to a point narratively where we might think that Apocalypse would have done a better job at steering the QC.

At the same time, I do recognize he is a bad man, a bad dad, and a bad colleague for all of the reasons above. So what do we think are ways moving forward with the character that respects the intricacies of what this character and his character arc are trying to do? Or is his character going down with the Krakoan ship?

That seems like such an oversimplification of the relationship that Shaw and Emma have lol just because we have seen them talk cordially with each other it doesn't necessarily mean that she has forgiven him. Emma probably trusts Xavier far more than she trusts Shaw as well...

[Vishop]

That wasn't Xavier(because it's Gillen) and nothing he said had been related to any of the current events. I am so tired of this non sense. I will rather keep my mouth shut to such hypocrisy from now on.

[vbeacon]

That wasn't Xavier(because it's Gillen) and nothing he said had been related to any of the current events. I am so tired of this non sense. I will rather keep my mouth shut to such hypocrisy from now on.

Say more? I'm wondering if we're in agreement re: IXM 10. It's a peek into what supposedly makes Xavier tick and the nuances of trying to be a good man, but if he's compromised by sinister, then what's the point? But maybe I am misunderstanding where you're frustrated and your frustrations lie elsewhere

That seems like such an oversimplification of the relationship that Shaw and Emma have lol just because we have seen them talk cordially with each other it doesn't necessarily mean that she has forgiven him. Emma probably trusts Xavier far more than she trusts Shaw as well...

I agree, I think their relationship is more complex than that (I was just writing a lot of and needed to be brief). I think Emma knows she dominates Shaw in terms of QC relationships, telepathy, guile, and other domains, and she's untouchable with her other mutation to his. I think she knows she can't dominate Charles in the same way and hates being on the short end of the stick in their relationship. I think for Emma that puts Shaw in a comfortable box - he's a beast that might have a wild card or two but is ultimately under control, whereas with Xavier, she will work to undermine him to ensure that he stays checked (or in her mind, accountable). Her trust in either seem very tenuous, but I imagine (and feel free to disagree) she only thinks of Xavier as truly dangerous

[Krakoa]

That wasn't Xavier(because it's Gillen) and nothing he said had been related to any of the current events. I am so tired of this non sense. I will rather keep my mouth shut to such hypocrisy from now on.

Really? I thought it was the best Xavier writing in decades.

[The Thunderbird]

While I don't want Xavier completely whitewashed I would really like to see a reconstruction of his character. Like if his actions are cynical then I would like to see why he even pursued an idealistic dream in the first place. Something about balance.

[Krakoa]

While I don't want Xavier completely whitewashed I would really like to see a reconstruction of his character. Like if his actions are cynical then I would like to see why he even pursued an idealistic dream in the first place. Something about balance.

That's p much exactly what Immortal #10 was IMO.

[Vishop]

Deleted post

[Vishop]

Really? I thought it was the best Xavier writing in decades.

Because it was revealed to be Sinisterized. I don't want to go into all the machinations but if it's Gillen i am pretty sure it's Sinister being not only being ironic but showing his twist sense of superiority

[The tall man]

I'm 100% pro Xavier, the man gets more shit than anyone and has become the Krakoan era whipping boy. I swear with the way his fellow mutants disrespect him I wonder if he ever thinks why did he even create Krakoa to begin with. If he is such a bastard why do all this, why found the X-men, why found Krakoa, create the resurrection protocols or invite practically every mutant on earth to come to Krakoa. Honestly he's just the easy target, if you pin all the crap on him then it's easier to whitewash other people's crap. And it's funny that most stem from him keeping "secrets", oh he didn't tell us about Moira or about a possible future that likely will never come to pass. But it's Xavier so he gets shit.

[ARkadelphia]

Because it was revealed to be Sinisterized. I don't want to go into all the machinations but if it's Gillen i am pretty sure it's Sinister being not only being ironic but showing his twist sense of superiority

It wasn’t revealed to be Sinisterzed. The whole issue was moral Charles himself talking about the challenges he has with his powers as a morale being and asks the reader to think about what could happen if somebody without those morals had his powers. The last page simply showed that the storyline was going go into the direction of moral Charles’ worst nightmare. In no way, shape, or form was the issue narrated from Sinisterized Charles’ perspective.

[MythicalChicken]

It wasn’t revealed to be Sinisterzed. The whole issue was moral Charles himself talking about the challenges he has with his powers as a morale being and asks the reader to think about what could happen if somebody without those morals had his powers. The last page simply showed that the storyline was going go into the direction of moral Charles’ worst nightmare. In no way, shape, or form was the issue narrated from Sinisterized Charles’ perspective.

Tbh a lot of the charles hate seems to be the same hatred any boss gets just because they’re in charge, and its petty.

The only real eff’d thing he has done that didnt involve legion was how how treated reed richards.

[Mungho]

Tbh a lot of the charles hate seems to be the same hatred any boss gets just because they’re in charge, and its petty.

The only real eff’d thing he has done that didnt involve legion was how how treated reed richards.

Well, what he did to Hank, Jean, Robert, and Warren a little before Krakoa started made me like him less in X-Men annual 2018. He got them to fight an evil entity who may or may not be the actual devil who had taken over a small town. Hank then gives a piece of his soul to the entity in exchange for peace, Warren kills the entity, therefore causing all the possessed townsfolk to drop dead. Then he makes them completely forgot it. Oh, and Hank never got the piece of his soul back. Why did Xavier do this? Was it all part of some scheme? Or has it just been forgotten(by the current writers)? Or is it a new pattern of behavior for him?