Spider-Offices Kremlinology

[Mister Mets]

In different threads, there seem to be discussions about what's really going on behind the spider-offices. It kinda reminds me of Kremlinology, how outsiders tried to guess at what was secretly going on behind the scenes in the Soviet Union.

It seems useful to have one place discussing what we know, even when it comes to rumors.

When it comes to rumors, let's try to be specific and include the source.

The latest issue and upcoming issue (#19-20) are by the fill-in creative team of Joe Kelly and Terry Dodson.
Marvel is releasing an omnibus of Joe Kelly's Spider-Man work later in the year.
The next storyline (#21-26) by Zeb Wells and John Romita Jr. will apparently reveal what Peter did.
Dan Slott and Mark Bagley have a monthly title.
Zeb Wells is listed as the writer for the Spider-Man story in the Free Comic Book Day special coming out in May.
Patrick Gleason is listed as the artist.
Chip Zdarsky has said that he does not want to write Amazing Spider-Man because of fan pressure.
Nick Spencer seemed to leave the book sooner than intended, with multiple specials and the Sinister War mini-series at the tail end of his run. That was followed by the Beyond run, which had a team of multiple writers for about 20 issues.

There's a theory that Nick Spencer's early departure left Marvel aimless as far as long-term plans went. The perception is that Zdarsky was the first choice for Amazing Spider-Man and turned it down, and that the "Beyond" run was a placeholder for half a year while they could figure out a new creative team and direction.
The fill-in work and omnibus would lend credence to Joe Kelly taking over as a main Spider-Man writer, especially if Wells is tying up loose ends.
However, the Free Comic Book Day special is used to promote upcoming stories. That would suggest Wells has at least a few stories left in him, beyond what's currently been revealed.
Gleason has been venturing into writing, and wrote his issues of Beyond, so is he planning to do the same thing when Peter Parker is the lead?

* Edited to add Kevinroc's point that the "What Peter Did" story goes up until #26. It could be relevant to note that John Romita Jr is the listed artist.

[Kevinroc]

The What Peter Did story lasts until issue 26 as confirmed in the Editor's page of the Dark Web finale.

[CaptainUniverse]

It still feels as if they are aimless.

[NC_Yankee]

In different threads, there seem to be discussions about what's really going on behind the spider-offices. It kinda reminds me of Kremlinology, how outsiders tried to guess at what was secretly going on behind the scenes in the Soviet Union.

It seems useful to have one place discussing what we know, even when it comes to rumors.

When it comes to rumors, let's try to be specific and include the source.

The latest issue and upcoming issue (#19-20) are by the fill-in creative team of Joe Kelly and Terry Dodson.
Marvel is releasing an omnibus of Joe Kelly's Spider-Man work later in the year.
The next storyline (#21-24) will apparently reveal what Peter did.
Dan Slott and Mark Bagley have a monthly title.
Zeb Wells is listed as the writer for the Spider-Man story in the Free Comic Book Day special coming out in May.
Patrick Gleason is listed as the artist.
Chip Zdarsky has said that he does not want to write Amazing Spider-Man because of fan pressure.
Nick Spencer seemed to leave the book sooner than intended, with multiple specials and the Sinister War mini-series at the tail end of his run. That was followed by the Beyond run, which had a team of multiple writers for about 20 issues.

There's a theory that Nick Spencer's early departure left Marvel aimless as far as long-term plans went. The perception is that Zdarsky was the first choice for Amazing Spider-Man and turned it down, and that the "Beyond" run was a placeholder for half a year while they could figure out a new creative team and direction.
The fill-in work and omnibus would lend credence to Joe Kelly taking over as a main Spider-Man writer, especially if Wells is tying up loose ends.
However, the Free Comic Book Day special is used to promote upcoming stories. That would suggest Wells has at least a few stories left in him, beyond what's currently been revealed.
Gleason has been venturing into writing, and wrote his issues of Beyond, so is he planning to do the same thing when Peter Parker is the lead?

My question is when does the Wells run end? I cannot see it lasting beyond ASM 963. Why that number? I imagine that writer X who follows him wants a minimum of one year to tell his or her story. 12 x 3 issues per month = 36. For a total of 999 before the special issue of 1000. It will be interesting to see how much longer the Wells run lasts ( I hope it ends before ASM 963).

[Kaitou D. Kid]

As much as they screwed up ASM 900, and as bad as Editorial is, I don't think they'll want to go do in history as screwing up ASM 1000. I imagine they'll want it on par with something like ASM 500 by JMS. So I imagine Wells will be out by then and there will be a good writer on the book.

[Bruce Wayne]

Seems like editorial by themselves are just keen on using the same warm bodies from the BND era on ASM and maintaining the BND status quo.

[Mister Mets]

The What Peter Did story lasts until issue 26 as confirmed in the Editor's page of the Dark Web finale.

Good point.

This is also a six issue arc with one of the top Spider-Man artists, so Marvel has to see it as a big deal.

* This makes the timing of the fill-in Kelly/ Dodson story a bit odd, since otherwise the 25th issue could be used to set up something new. Or Marvel could've promoted a double-sized 25th issue that ties up the story.

My question is when does the Wells run end? I cannot see it lasting beyond ASM 963. Why that number? I imagine that writer X who follows him wants a minimum of one year to tell his or her story. 12 x 3 issues per month = 36. For a total of 999 before the special issue of 1000. It will be interesting to see how much longer the Wells run lasts ( I hope it ends before ASM 963).

We don't know when the Wells run ends, although we're looking for evidence about what Marvel thinks.

There is plenty of time until ASM 963. The 6th issue was #900, so the most recent issue (#20) was #914.

Amazing Spider-Man has typically been twice-monthly since Dan Slott took over, although I don't know how much publication length matters to writers. Would someone really agree to a 24 issue run on a twice-monthly title, but turn down a 30 issue run on a thrice-monthly.

Typically, the big anniversary issues are by the main creative team. Sometimes it's the final issue of a major creative team, or seen that way. It would be unusual to give the book to someone until #999, and have someone else start with the 1000th issue.

One consideration for Marvel if they got a new writer would be determining how much of a trial period do they have, before Marvel's willing to commit to them on the 1000th issue, so that would be the main reason to be careful with those decisions with a year to go.

[NC_Yankee]

Seems like editorial by themselves are just keen on using the same warm bodies from the BND era on ASM and maintaining the BND status quo.

That Is bad enough. A good legacy story was Slott’s 800. He is easy to rip for bad stories but he deserves credit when he does a good job. Especially when compared to Wells 900

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Seems like editorial by themselves are just keen on using the same warm bodies from the BND era on ASM and maintaining the BND status quo.

I'm curious how much of this is conscious or subconscious, intentional vs unintentional (meaning they're intentionally gatekeeping vs. they just like those writers).

[Bruce Wayne]

I think there is absolutely intent here. If you look at Lowe's editorial career, his first big gig was head of the x-books and he basically maintained the status quo from HoM/Decimation. He's absolutely a company man that tows the editorial line since like Brevoort he basically started out at Marvel (as an intern iirc). He's using these guys because they are the most invested in keeping the BND status quo imo.

[NC_Yankee]

Good point.

This is also a six issue arc with one of the top Spider-Man artists, so Marvel has to see it as a big deal.

* This makes the timing of the fill-in Kelly/ Dodson story a bit odd, since otherwise the 25th issue could be used to set up something new. Or Marvel could've promoted a double-sized 25th issue that ties up the story.

We don't know when the Wells run ends, although we're looking for evidence about what Marvel thinks.

There is plenty of time until ASM 963. The 6th issue was #900, so the most recent issue (#20) was #914.

Amazing Spider-Man has typically been twice-monthly since Dan Slott took over, although I don't know how much publication length matters to writers. Would someone really agree to a 24 issue run on a twice-monthly title, but turn down a 30 issue run on a thrice-monthly.

Typically, the big anniversary issues are by the main creative team. Sometimes it's the final issue of a major creative team, or seen that way. It would be unusual to give the book to someone until #999, and have someone else start with the 1000th issue.

One consideration for Marvel if they got a new writer would be determining how much of a trial period do they have, before Marvel's willing to commit to them on the 1000th issue, so that would be the main reason to be careful with those decisions with a year to go.

I do not expect Writer X to write until 999 then have writer Y take over. What I think happens is 1000 is come kind of collaborative issue ( like the recent Amazing Fantasy). I also do not expect Post 1000 the same OMD plot line to continue. It could be anything from the marriage restored to Peter being rebooted back to High School, I just do not expect the Status Quo.

[Mister Mets]

I do not expect Writer X to write until 999 then have writer Y take over. What I think happens is 1000 is come kind of collaborative issue ( like the recent Amazing Fantasy). I also do not expect Post 1000 the same OMD plot line to continue. It could be anything from the marriage restored to Peter being rebooted back to High School, I just do not expect the Status Quo.

I don't think the 1,000th issue is going to work that way.

It'll be a big deal, but Marvel probably doesn't know what they're going to do.

Typically the big anniversary issues are by the standard creative team, moving along the main storylines. One wrinkle is that a writer planning to leave might want to stick around for #1,000, so it'll tie up their big stories.

The one thing we can be reasonably sure of is that the main chapter is extra-sized.

I don't think they'll go with a big status quo change, and it's not likely to be something they're currently working towards. If there was editorial interest in wanting to reverse One More Day, it doesn't make sense to wait for a few years. They might lose internal support in that time.

[TinkerSpider]

I think there is absolutely intent here. If you look at Lowe's editorial career, his first big gig was head of the x-books and he basically maintained the status quo from HoM/Decimation. He's absolutely a company man that tows the editorial line since like Brevoort he basically started out at Marvel (as an intern iirc). He's using these guys because they are the most invested in keeping the BND status quo imo.

Gonna have to stick up for Nick Lowe here. I know, I know.

And not trying to ascribe motivations or mindread, but someone who cared just about toeing the OMD line would not have let Spencer's run go the way it did for so long.

Here's what I think:

Lowe is very good at getting books on the shelves on time. And from Marvel's perspective, that counts for a lot. I think he's great at traffic, i.e. managing to keep all the artists and writers on schedule and the files off to the printer and keeping the schedule filled.

I don't think he's particularly interested in story. He might have some macro ideas: What do we do with Ben Reilly? for example - but then he hands them off to the writers and stays pretty much out of the actual storytelling. He had a reputation for being laissez-faire and hands off as an X-Men editor, too. And you can see this in several ways:

1) the quality of Slott's storytelling took a nose dive after Wacker left and Lowe came on

2) Slott's run spun its wheels for far too long and a more astute editor concerned with storytelling might have either stepped in or cut him loose sooner, but Slott's run still made its baseline sales numbers so Lowe didn't have a reason to remove him. Speculating here: Slott insisting he's happy with Spider-Man because it is a monthly and not bi-monthly might actually be why Slott left, as being chronically late on ASM might be one thing Lowe would be not thrilled with

3) Spencer's run took an almost diametrically opposed attitude to the characters than Slott did, meaning there wasn't much concern with having one run flow organically into another, as an editor focused on cohesive storytelling might have insisted - and then the same thing happened when Wells came on board, the title abruptly shifted again with little to no attempt at smoothing over the transition or ensuring the characters remained consistent or even on model

4) Beyond was a mess tonally, there appeared to be little attention to ensuring the overall arc flowed smoothly; the less we talk about how Dark Web was a clown show, the better

5) Wells's run is one of the most inept attempts at telling a story I've ever come across; it makes fanfiction written by ten year olds look like George RR Martin by comparison when it comes to telling a cohesive, coherent story. An editor who puts story first would never have let recap pages go out that reveal major character turning points that would have been very useful for the reader to know upfront so the reader could properly interpret the characters' dialogue and interactions. Peter Parker calling late at night an ex-girlfriend who just started being serious with a new guy and moved in with him and his kids is very different to Peter Parker calling late at night a married woman who apparently has biological children with someone else. Neither are great, of course, but there are degrees of understanding. Remember - only the reader doesn't know what it going on. Peter and Mary Jane both know what their statuses are. And an editor who cares about storytelling and the reader's experience would never, ever have approved a year long mystery box with zero pacing whatsoever.

TL;dr: I think Lowe hires writers who he knows will turn their work in on time: Spencer was a proven commodity, Wells is a proven commodity. And then he lets them do what they want, as long as Peter is never, ever, never married. And doesn't pay attention to the actual storytelling.

Spencer definitely let before he thought he was leaving; I've heard he didn't think his Substack deal would be a conflict of interest with his Marvel contract, Marvel thought otherwise and he was let go. The other rumor is he left early under his own steam because of Substack. Either way, he did not finish his story and that was confirmed by Celbulski at I think last summer's C2E2.

Thanks for the thread - this is a fun one!

[NC_Yankee]

I don't think the 1,000th issue is going to work that way.

It'll be a big deal, but Marvel probably doesn't know what they're going to do.

Typically the big anniversary issues are by the standard creative team, moving along the main storylines. One wrinkle is that a writer planning to leave might want to stick around for #1,000, so it'll tie up their big stories.

The one thing we can be reasonably sure of is that the main chapter is extra-sized.

I don't think they'll go with a big status quo change, and it's not likely to be something they're currently working towards. If there was editorial interest in wanting to reverse One More Day, it doesn't make sense to wait for a few years. They might lose internal support in that time.

I agree 1,000 is not something the Spider Office and Marvel is currently working on. Here is my main reason for not expecting the Status Quo. ASM 1,000 will be the first Marvel comic to reach that number and they need a home run. They cannot afford the bad publicity that a meh ( like Amazing Fantasy) or worse bad comic brings ( think ASM 900).
They need to set Peter up for the future and keeping him as a loser is a guarantee for failure.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I agree 1,000 is not something the Spider Office and Marvel is currently working on. Here is my main reason for not expecting the Status Quo. ASM 1,000 will be the first Marvel comic to reach that number and they need a home run. They cannot afford the bad publicity that a meh ( like Amazing Fantasy) or worse bad comic brings ( think ASM 900).
They need to set Peter up for the future and keeping him as a loser is a guarantee for failure.

When you put it like that, Marvel is under increasing pressure to undo OMD.