How do Barry Allen and Jay Garrick presently remember their first meeting?

[Buried Alien]

In the Silver Age of Comics, Barry Allen initially believed that his childhood hero, Jay Garrick (the original Flash), was simply a fictional character. Barry later discovered Earth-Two (and the Multiverse) and learned that Jay was real. That was how their friendship began back in THE FLASH OF TWO WORLDS back in 1961.

DC has been through scores of continuity reboots since that time. Presently, how do Barry and Jay recall their first meeting? Was Jay still initially a fictional character to Barry, or did they meet differently now?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[bat39]

In the Silver Age of Comics, Barry Allen initially believed that his childhood hero, Jay Garrick (the original Flash), was simply a fictional character. Barry later discovered Earth-Two (and the Multiverse) and learned that Jay was real. That was how their friendship began back in THE FLASH OF TWO WORLDS back in 1961.

DC has been through scores of continuity reboots since that time. Presently, how do Barry and Jay recall their first meeting? Was Jay still initially a fictional character to Barry, or did they meet differently now?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Good question! And I think the current JSA series might give us some answers once it explains exactly how the JSA era connects to the JLA era.

Since they are technically on the same earth right now, I'd default to the Post-COIE explanation Morrison came up with in his retelling of the original Jay/Barry team-up - "The Flash of Two Cities". In that retelling, Keystone City had been placed in Limbo by the Thinker, Fiddler and Shade, and Barry accidentally travels there, teams up with Jay, and rescues the city, restoring it to the present-day where it became a twin city to Central City.

Of course, if there's another explanation to bring Jay Garrick to the JLA era/world that encompasses the entire JSA, then that would probably mean another retelling. Dataweaver has been suggesting on a lot of threads that the old multiversal team-ups could be reimagined as time-travel (until COIE brought the JSA to the present-day). Under this explanation, Barry first meets Jay when he accidentally time-travels to 1963.

I do think whatever the explanation though, Jay should still appear in comics that Barry reads as a kid, since that's an iconic part of Barry's origin. I think that can work even in a scenario where Jay existed on the same earth as Barry, albeit decades in the past.

[Jon Clark]

Since "it all happened" and they "remember everything" it would seem that Barry and Jay remember both the Earth1/Earth 2 meeting and the Post-Crisis "Barry finds Keystone frozen in time" from Secret Origins #50.

[Robotman]

Instead of an alternate earth tale, maybe it could be a time travel story.

Barry doesn’t go to Earth 2 but instead there’s time shenanigans. On one side of the wall there’s Barry’s “modern” time and on the other side is 1940s with Jay.

[Jon Clark]

Instead of an alternate earth tale, maybe it could be a time travel story.

Barry doesn’t go to Earth 2 but instead there’s time shenanigans. On one side of the wall there’s Barry’s “modern” time and on the other side is 1940s with Jay.

What "wall"? Unless you use the idea that Jay is trapped behind that wall, the basic story is no different than any other time-travel story. Barry travels back and meets someone he knows existed before the trip. Someone from our 2023 meeting JFK is a different story from that same person meeting Superman, Spider-man, or Jay Garrick.

[Digifiend]

Good question! And I think the current JSA series might give us some answers once it explains exactly how the JSA era connects to the JLA era.

Since they are technically on the same earth right now, I'd default to the Post-COIE explanation Morrison came up with in his retelling of the original Jay/Barry team-up - "The Flash of Two Cities". In that retelling, Keystone City had been placed in Limbo by the Thinker, Fiddler and Shade, and Barry accidentally travels there, teams up with Jay, and rescues the city, restoring it to the present-day where it became a twin city to Central City.

Of course, if there's another explanation to bring Jay Garrick to the JLA era/world that encompasses the entire JSA, then that would probably mean another retelling. Dataweaver has been suggesting on a lot of threads that the old multiversal team-ups could be reimagined as time-travel (until COIE brought the JSA to the present-day). Under this explanation, Barry first meets Jay when he accidentally time-travels to 1963.

I do think whatever the explanation though, Jay should still appear in comics that Barry reads as a kid, since that's an iconic part of Barry's origin. I think that can work even in a scenario where Jay existed on the same earth as Barry, albeit decades in the past.

Comics featuring the real heroes do exist alongside fictional (i.e. Marvel) ones, so yeah, Barry first learning about Jay from his comics, and that being where he got his codename, is still canon. I think they just use different secret identities if they're unknown in-universe (for example, in Superman's comics, he isn't Clark Kent, and in Flash's, he isn't Barry Allen), therefore he wouldn't have learned Jay Garrick's name from those comics. Marvel does the exact same thing.

Instead of an alternate earth tale, maybe it could be a time travel story.

Barry doesn’t go to Earth 2 but instead there’s time shenanigans. On one side of the wall there’s Barry’s “modern” time and on the other side is 1940s with Jay.

1960s - Earth-2 had time passing in real time, so the JSA characters had aged up 15-20 years between the golden age and silver age. Even if you change that to time travel in current continuity, it should still be the 60s. There's another wrinkle that'll change how it plays out as well - his recently revealed daughter Judy is from the 60s, she's supposed to have been born in the late 40s. Jay was retired as The Flash (because the JSA was basically banned from operating), and Judy went back in time to the 40s so that she could be his sidekick. Only to never come home and be forgotten because she got kidnapped, as seen in the current Stargirl mini. Would she now be around in that first Barry/Jay meeting?

[BohemiaDrinker]

In the Silver Age of Comics, Barry Allen initially believed that his childhood hero, Jay Garrick (the original Flash), was simply a fictional character. Barry later discovered Earth-Two (and the Multiverse) and learned that Jay was real. That was how their friendship began back in THE FLASH OF TWO WORLDS back in 1961.

DC has been through scores of continuity reboots since that time. Presently, how do Barry and Jay recall their first meeting? Was Jay still initially a fictional character to Barry, or did they meet differently now?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I think until they address it again, "Flash of 2 cities", the revised origin for their partnership by Grant Morrison in the early 90's, still counts.

[Frontier]

Probably whatever they came up with in Post-Crisis but with DC there could be multiple versions in play .

[Phoenixx9]

What "wall"? Unless you use the idea that Jay is trapped behind that wall, the basic story is no different than any other time-travel story. Barry travels back and meets someone he knows existed before the trip. Someone from our 2023 meeting JFK is a different story from that same person meeting Superman, Spider-man, or Jay Garrick.

While I don't wanna speak for Robotman, I <<think>> he may mean that while both running on their respective Earths, a wall of speed is created and on one side Barry sees and responds to Jay while Jay on his side sees and responds to Barry, but both stay on their own Earths, in their own times.

[Thor-Ul]

I think until they address it again, "Flash of 2 cities", the revised origin for their partnership by Grant Morrison in the early 90's, still counts.

Secret Origins vol.2 #50, 1990. By Grant Morrison and (RIP) Mike Parobeck. Until now, has not been revisited notr mentioned, so we can guess still stand until further notice.

[Jim Kelly]

Forgive me for being a word nerd, but "presently" means that something is about to happen (in the near future) but hasn't happened as yet. So it's almost certain the continuity will change presently. It always does. Presently is a good word for this publisher. Any scenario you imagine is likely to happen, presently. They should have a comic book called D.C. PRESENTLY PRESENTS--it would be just blank pages. You fill it in yourself when the next continuity change happens.

[married guy]

What "wall"? Unless you use the idea that Jay is trapped behind that wall, the basic story is no different than any other time-travel story. Barry travels back and meets someone he knows existed before the trip. Someone from our 2023 meeting JFK is a different story from that same person meeting Superman, Spider-man, or Jay Garrick.

I assumed 'the wall' was in reference to the cover of #123 - Barry & Jay's first meeting.

[MajorHoy]

I think until they address it again, "Flash of 2 cities", the revised origin for their partnership by Grant Morrison in the early 90's, still counts.

Actually, it was still called "Flash of Two Worlds".

[BohemiaDrinker]

Actually, it was still called "Flash of Two Worlds".

Can they have changed this on a reprint or have a different title on the cover? I distinctly remember the "Flash of 2 cities " one.

[MajorHoy]

Can they have changed this on a reprint or have a different title on the cover? I distinctly remember the "Flash of 2 cities " one.

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Can't speak to the question of later reprints or foreign editions, but "Flash of Two Cities" doesn't really sound as exciting / interesting. (Sounds pretty pedestrian, like you just take a local bus to get from one to the other.)