Pants, trunks, thong or battle skirt? What’s your preference?

[Stanlos]

Toth really boiled the essence of her costume down for Super Friends, making it wonderfully bold and graphic for animation. It influenced her look in the comics for a little while.

It took FOREVER for me to realize Byrne's rendition of her armour was essentially a mashup of the Superfriends and Lynda Carter Wonderwear!

[wonder39]

It took FOREVER for me to realize Byrne's rendition of her armour was essentially a mashup of the Superfriends and Lynda Carter Wonderwear!

I don't see Lynda's look in Byrne's interpretation..... But I remember him making everything so big. Big bracelets, big belt, big emblem, big tiara, big hair...lol. He seemed to calm down with that over time.

[Stanlos]

I don't see Lynda's look in Byrne's interpretation..... But I remember him making everything so big. Big bracelets, big belt, big emblem, big tiara, big hair...lol. He seemed to calm down with that over time.

Amen to the big comment. I was so busy complaining about the New Adventures of Forehead Girl style tiara that I completely missed the way he had reworked the suit. He did the very top of the breastplate like Lynda's complete with more exaggerated separation as the emblem wrapped the cups.

One thing I really did love was the boldness of the graphic elements, especially the emblem and the boot stripes. Little did we know that in the near future, AH! was coming after which that bold standout emblem would become barely a smudge of gold.

[Phoenixx9]

It's basically happening at about the same time. The comics being influenced by Toth's version for the first season of SF in 73.

Each artist in the comics then has their own artistic take on it, but he really is the one to credit . The less fussy boots, the eagle melding into a double pointed belt, the fewer and larger stars. That's all Toth. And that amazing flip!

Continuing from the 40s, her look didn't change that much. Curly top, long line shorts ( in varying lengths) , tiara that wrapped around her head, etc. Even in her first animated appearance in the Brady Kids, she looks like this.
And while the comics tried to loosen up her hair at some point, they ended up going back to the curly top look.

So Toth really modernized WW's look for the new generation.

WoW, I did not know all of this!

Thank you so much for all of this WONDERful info!

[Jim Kelly]

I don't like how, over the years, stuff has been added to the basic Wonder Woman look--often borrowed from other fictional characters, to make her similar to them.

Don't get me wrong--I'm all in favour of characters having several different outfits and different variations on their design. It makes sense that they would have different looks for different occasions and it's fun for the consumer (à la Barbie). So, I'm okay with certain elements being added to Wonder Woman's standard look every now and then, but I don't like how these additions creep in to become part of her standard look.

As a rule, I'm against:

▪ The tiara with the point going down. This might look good in a drawing, but I always wonder why Diana would choose to wear such a thing that digs down on her forehead--there should just be the single point going up.

▪ The cape. For ceremonial purposes or in cold climates, a cape might make sense, but in general it seems like the cape is there to put her on the same level as Superman or Batman--as if she has to have a cape to prove she's as impressive as them. The great thing about Wonder Woman is that she isn't restricted in her movement by a lot of extra stuff--her outfit gives her much more freedom of movement--so adding stuff to the costume works against the intent.

▪ Large sized bracelets. The bullets and bracelets trick is cool because it requires a lot of skill. The bigger the bracelets, the less skill Diana needs to deflect bullets.

▪ The shield. Even more than large sized bracelets, the shield works against the basic premise. She's Wonder Woman, she doesn't need a honking big shield to protect her. From time to time, I don't mind it, but not as a regular thing.

▪ The sword. Diana is a Princess of Peace, so she's not going to carry around a sword in routine circumstances. Wonder Woman shouldn't use offensive weapons--she defaults to defensive devices.

▪ The boots that cover her knees. Especially when the boots are metallic, like the pointing down tiara, those look too uncomfortable--why would she wear them? And they further weigh down the character. She doesn't look light and graceful on the page, when weighted down with cape, sword, shield and big boots. I would much rather see Diana wearing sandals.

▪ The skirt. She never wore a skirt in the original design. Some readers think she did, but those were actually culottes. The whole point of putting her in shorts was to show that women don't need to wear skirts. The ancient Greeks told stories about Amazons who wore pants--which was anathema to the Greeks. The Amazons wore these pants for riding on horses, because that's practical. These tales were based in reality, since the Greeks saw peoples in the outside world who wore pants for riding horses, including women, and they thought that was weird. Not wearing a skirt was symbolic of Wonder Woman's liberation. The battle skirt isn't really a skirt, since it's obvious she has some form of briefs worked into the skirt, but still I think it sends the wrong message. A skirt every now and then is okay, but as a rule it's off brand for Wonder Woman.

Diana is not wearing a skirt on the cover of SENSATION COMICS 1 (January 1942). It might appear that way but--if you look closely--those are culottes.

[Agent Z]

I don't like how, over the years, stuff has been added to the basic Wonder Woman look--often borrowed from other fictional characters, to make her similar to them.

Don't get me wrong--I'm all in favour of characters having several different outfits and different variations on their design. It makes sense that they would have different looks for different occasions and it's fun for the consumer (à la Barbie). So, I'm okay with certain elements being added to Wonder Woman's standard look every now and then, but I don't like how these additions creep in to become part of her standard look.

As a rule, I'm against:

▪ The tiara with the point going down. This might look good in a drawing, but I always wonder why Diana would choose to wear such a thing that digs down on her forehead--there should just be the single point going up.

▪ The cape. For ceremonial purposes or in cold climates, a cape might make sense, but in general it seems like the cape is there to put her on the same level as Superman or Batman--as if she has to have a cape to prove she's as impressive as them. The great thing about Wonder Woman is that she isn't restricted in her movement by a lot of extra stuff--her outfit gives her much more freedom of movement--so adding stuff to the costume works against the intent.

▪ Large sized bracelets. The bullets and bracelets trick is cool because it requires a lot of skill. The bigger the bracelets, the less skill Diana needs to deflect bullets.

▪ The shield. Even more than large sized bracelets, the shield works against the basic premise. She's Wonder Woman, she doesn't need a honking big shield to protect her. From time to time, I don't mind it, but not as a regular thing.

▪ The sword. Diana is a Princess of Peace, so she's not going to carry around a sword in routine circumstances. Wonder Woman shouldn't use offensive weapons--she defaults to defensive devices.

▪ The boots that cover her knees. Especially when the boots are metallic, like the pointing down tiara, those look too uncomfortable--why would she wear them? And they further weigh down the character. She doesn't look light and graceful on the page, when weighted down with cape, sword, shield and big boots. I would much rather see Diana wearing sandals.

▪ The skirt. She never wore a skirt in the original design. Some readers think she did, but those were actually culottes. The whole point of putting her in shorts was to show that women don't need to wear skirts. The ancient Greeks told stories about Amazons who wore pants--which was anathema to the Greeks. The Amazons wore these pants for riding on horses, because that's practical. These tales were based in reality, since the Greeks saw peoples in the outside world who wore pants for riding horses, including women, and they thought that was weird. Not wearing a skirt was symbolic of Wonder Woman's liberation. The battle skirt isn't really a skirt, since it's obvious she has some form of briefs worked into the skirt, but still I think it sends the wrong message. A skirt every now and then is okay, but as a rule it's off brand for Wonder Woman.

Diana is not wearing a skirt on the cover of SENSATION COMICS 1 (January 1942). It might appear that way but--if you look closely--those are culottes.

The criticism about being weighed down by her clothing would work if she were a regular human, which is not the case. She also doesn't wear a cape that often.

Diana has never been a pacifist, not even under Marston. And even under Marston, the Golden Age Amazons were shown using swords.

Skilled fighters don't rely on only one type of weapon. Batman doesn't just use batarangs.

This isn't the 1940s anymore. Not wearing a skirt isn't a symbol of liberation now, let alone in the superhero genre where up until recently about half the female characters weren't wearing pants. And a lot of them still aren't.

[John Venus]

I think Jim meant more about how it comes across. Diana without all the extra crap on her looks lighter and more elegant when she is in flight. Certainly the best illustrations I have seen of her in flight does not include a cape or a sword.

As for the pacifist thing, yes, the Amazons used swords during Marston's era but they were defensive. Diana was about reformation and Marston's primary vision was that Paradise Island was a 'place beyond war'.

I'm not a Whovian but there is a quote about the Doctor that I think also applies to WW:

They didn't give him a tank or a warship or an X-Wing, they gave him a call box from which you can call for help and they didn't give him a superpower or a heat-ray, they gave him an extra heart. And that's extraordinary. There will never come a time when we don't need a hero like the doctor.

Even though, the Amazons used sword, Diana was given the Lasso of Truth to separate truth from lies and to show mankind the error of their ways. She wasn't there just to beat up the bad guys but to also make an effort from a grass roots level to build a better future. The bracelets without chains represented liberation and she used it to deflect bullets and yes, she became weak if bound by a man but it's meant to be a cautionary sign to be wary of certain men.

Side note: there is another Dr Who quote that I think works well for WW:

“Never be cruel. Never be cowardly. Remember, hate is always foolish and love is always wise. Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind.” – 12th Doctor.

[Koriand'r]

I don't like how, over the years, stuff has been added to the basic Wonder Woman look--often borrowed from other fictional characters, to make her similar to them.

Don't get me wrong--I'm all in favour of characters having several different outfits and different variations on their design. It makes sense that they would have different looks for different occasions and it's fun for the consumer (à la Barbie). So, I'm okay with certain elements being added to Wonder Woman's standard look every now and then, but I don't like how these additions creep in to become part of her standard look.

As a rule, I'm against:

▪ The tiara with the point going down. This might look good in a drawing, but I always wonder why Diana would choose to wear such a thing that digs down on her forehead--there should just be the single point going up.

▪ The cape. For ceremonial purposes or in cold climates, a cape might make sense, but in general it seems like the cape is there to put her on the same level as Superman or Batman--as if she has to have a cape to prove she's as impressive as them. The great thing about Wonder Woman is that she isn't restricted in her movement by a lot of extra stuff--her outfit gives her much more freedom of movement--so adding stuff to the costume works against the intent.

▪ Large sized bracelets. The bullets and bracelets trick is cool because it requires a lot of skill. The bigger the bracelets, the less skill Diana needs to deflect bullets.

▪ The shield. Even more than large sized bracelets, the shield works against the basic premise. She's Wonder Woman, she doesn't need a honking big shield to protect her. From time to time, I don't mind it, but not as a regular thing.

▪ The sword. Diana is a Princess of Peace, so she's not going to carry around a sword in routine circumstances. Wonder Woman shouldn't use offensive weapons--she defaults to defensive devices.

▪ The boots that cover her knees. Especially when the boots are metallic, like the pointing down tiara, those look too uncomfortable--why would she wear them? And they further weigh down the character. She doesn't look light and graceful on the page, when weighted down with cape, sword, shield and big boots. I would much rather see Diana wearing sandals.

▪ The skirt. She never wore a skirt in the original design. Some readers think she did, but those were actually culottes. The whole point of putting her in shorts was to show that women don't need to wear skirts. The ancient Greeks told stories about Amazons who wore pants--which was anathema to the Greeks. The Amazons wore these pants for riding on horses, because that's practical. These tales were based in reality, since the Greeks saw peoples in the outside world who wore pants for riding horses, including women, and they thought that was weird. Not wearing a skirt was symbolic of Wonder Woman's liberation. The battle skirt isn't really a skirt, since it's obvious she has some form of briefs worked into the skirt, but still I think it sends the wrong message. A skirt every now and then is okay, but as a rule it's off brand for Wonder Woman.

Diana is not wearing a skirt on the cover of SENSATION COMICS 1 (January 1942). It might appear that way but--if you look closely--those are culottes.

So basically you don't like anything past the Bronze Age, okay. I agree about the giant bracelets lessening the visual impact of Bullets & Bracelets, nothing else. The things I detest are the cross body combination sword carrier/lasso holder and the bicep bracelets that comic book artists seem to think automatically make a character look like some exotic warrior queen and the severe lack of earrings lately. Earrings finish the look.

[Jim Kelly]

And I didn't say that Diana couldn't have all these other accoutrements. For sure let her have all the things, so they can be sold as accessories for the Wonder Woman doll. I just have a certain look I prefer to be the standard. Some of those elements were still in the Perez Wonder Woman and iterations of the character that followed after that run. It's really the more recent version of Diana where these alterations are becoming baked into the standard look.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Personally im rather fond of the cullottes. I know artists find them a pain and even Peters quickly tossed em aside for tight shorts due to the time it took to draw them properly, but I still like how they look.

[Agent Z]

I think Jim meant more about how it comes across. Diana without all the extra crap on her looks lighter and more elegant when she is in flight. Certainly the best illustrations I have seen of her in flight does not include a cape or a sword.

As for the pacifist thing, yes, the Amazons used swords during Marston's era but they were defensive. Diana was about reformation and Marston's primary vision was that Paradise Island was a 'place beyond war'.

I'm not a Whovian but there is a quote about the Doctor that I think also applies to WW:



Even though, the Amazons used sword, Diana was given the Lasso of Truth to separate truth from lies and to show mankind the error of their ways. She wasn't there just to beat up the bad guys but to also make an effort from a grass roots level to build a better future. The bracelets without chains represented liberation and she used it to deflect bullets and yes, she became weak if bound by a man but it's meant to be a cautionary sign to be wary of certain men.

Side note: there is another Dr Who quote that I think works well for WW:

I don't care for the cape either but she barely uses it in the first place.

A sword is just one tool Diana uses. It doesn't mean she will be written as a battle crazy barbarian and if she is, the sword will at worst be a symptom not the cause. The DCAU and David E. Kelley versions were a hundred times more arrogant and violent than most heroic versions of Diana and they didn't use swords. The Kelley version particular is even shown torturing people and dragging a normal human by his neck with the lasso (something Tom King's version also does). The premise of the "don't kill when you can wound" motto is that Diana knows when to use force and how much to use, not that she avoids it entirely. The shield is a defensive weapon as well but a lot of fans hate it. If Superman can still be seen as a bastion of hope and compassion despite his numerous destructive powers, a sword should nit automatically make Diana look less heroic. Especially if it doesn't replace the lasso.

I confess I'm not much of a Dr. Who expert but from what I've read, some incarnations of the Doctor can be pretty damn ruthless. Much more so than Diana.

[Alpha]

A sword is just one tool Diana uses. It doesn't mean she will be written as a battle crazy barbarian and if she is, the sword will at worst be a symptom not the cause.

You keep making it about violence when that's definitely not the main reason why it sucks

Nobody says Thor should use a sword instead of a hammer

[Koriand'r]

And I didn't say that Diana couldn't have all these other accoutrements. For sure let her have all the things, so they can be sold as accessories for the Wonder Woman doll. I just have a certain look I prefer to be the standard. Some of those elements were still in the Perez Wonder Woman and iterations of the character that followed after that run. It's really the more recent version of Diana where these alterations are becoming baked into the standard look.

On a thread elsewhere, a poster was lamenting the fact that the Rebirth armor gives off the impression that she came to fight, which is the opposite of what her original costume intended. I agree with that, but the "warrior princess" trappings are cool and at this point are expected from some possible new fans. If that's what it takes to get people to buy her book, or see her next movie, I'm fine with it.

[Agent Z]

You keep making it about violence when that's definitely not the main reason why it sucks

Nobody says Thor should use a sword instead of a hammer

I'm not the one making it about violence. The people who hate the sword are the ones doing that.

Thor has used an axe and a sword before. I don't recall anyone complaining about that.

[marhawkman]

You keep making it about violence when that's definitely not the main reason why it sucks

Nobody says Thor should use a sword instead of a hammer

Although canonically Thor's actual favorite weapon is an axe, and he uses Mjolnir because it's Mjolnir. But for mundane weapons, he likes axes.