Is Hawkman's origin really that confusing?

[astro@work]

LOL. Good point!

I do wonder though what the general public does think about Hawkman. I mean, the most popular adaptation of the Hawks is arguably Hawkgirl from the DCAU, and she was the Thanagarian Shayera Hol version. But over the past decade or so, the Hawkman (and Hawkgirl) adaptations have tended to focus on the Egyptian reincarnation angle - notably the Arrowverse.

I think its possible that when it comes to Hawkgirl, its the Thanagarian version that's more well-known, while with Hawkman it's the Egyptian version that's better known.

Agree, even though the disparity is kind of odd.

If you look at media appearances from the last 20 years:
Hawkwoman (DCAU) -Shayera, Definitely Thanagarian
Hawkman (DCAU) -minimal appearances, but Egyptian reincarnation version

Hawkman (Smallville (JSA 2parter)) - Egypt reincarnation
Hawkgirl - (Same) - dead, but assumed to be the same reincarnation version

Hawkgirl (Legends of Tomorrow) - Kendra version, Egyptian reincarnation
Hawkman (Legends)- Carter, Egyptian reincarnation

Hawkman (Black Adam) - Completely unclear which version and not really addressed; appeared to have a Thanagarian ship, but could have arguably been the reincarnation version that now includes other-planet reincarnations.

Long story short, the animated Hawkwoman seems to have resonated the most due to continuous appearances over 3+ years of the JL series.
Hawkman seems to have been reinforced mostly as the Egypt reincarnations, but usually in brief appearances.

And if your only exposure to Hawkman was in Black Adam, there really wouldn't be either version to hang your hat on, because IIRC they didn't offer up an explanation.

[Refrax5]

Agree, even though the disparity is kind of odd.

If you look at media appearances from the last 20 years:
Hawkwoman (DCAU) -Shayera, Definitely Thanagarian
Hawkman (DCAU) -minimal appearances, but Egyptian reincarnation version

Hawkman (Smallville (JSA 2parter)) - Egypt reincarnation
Hawkgirl - (Same) - dead, but assumed to be the same reincarnation version

Hawkgirl (Legends of Tomorrow) - Kendra version, Egyptian reincarnation
Hawkman (Legends)- Carter, Egyptian reincarnation

Hawkman (Black Adam) - Completely unclear which version and not really addressed; appeared to have a Thanagarian ship, but could have arguably been the reincarnation version that now includes other-planet reincarnations.

Long story short, the animated Hawkwoman seems to have resonated the most due to continuous appearances over 3+ years of the JL series.
Hawkman seems to have been reinforced mostly as the Egypt reincarnations, but usually in brief appearances.

And if your only exposure to Hawkman was in Black Adam, there really wouldn't be either version to hang your hat on, because IIRC they didn't offer up an explanation.

The DCAU version was a combination. He was reincarnated, but his original life was as Katar Hol.

[John Venus]

The JLU version with Shayera Hol is still the most prominent version of the character and the one that has gotten the most character development and appearances.

Hawkman appeared in a couple of episodes of Smallville way way in season 8 (?) before being killed off. Likewise, the Hawks appeared in the Arroweverse and were killed off and they barely have a fan base.

[bat39]

Agree, even though the disparity is kind of odd.

If you look at media appearances from the last 20 years:
Hawkwoman (DCAU) -Shayera, Definitely Thanagarian
Hawkman (DCAU) -minimal appearances, but Egyptian reincarnation version

Hawkman (Smallville (JSA 2parter)) - Egypt reincarnation
Hawkgirl - (Same) - dead, but assumed to be the same reincarnation version

Hawkgirl (Legends of Tomorrow) - Kendra version, Egyptian reincarnation
Hawkman (Legends)- Carter, Egyptian reincarnation

Hawkman (Black Adam) - Completely unclear which version and not really addressed; appeared to have a Thanagarian ship, but could have arguably been the reincarnation version that now includes other-planet reincarnations.

Long story short, the animated Hawkwoman seems to have resonated the most due to continuous appearances over 3+ years of the JL series.
Hawkman seems to have been reinforced mostly as the Egypt reincarnations, but usually in brief appearances.

And if your only exposure to Hawkman was in Black Adam, there really wouldn't be either version to hang your hat on, because IIRC they didn't offer up an explanation.

Bang on!

The Black Adam version, incidentally, is the Egypt reincarnation version. The director confirmed it in an interview IIRC (while throwing open the possibility that maybe this incarnation of Carter doesn't remember his past lives yet).

Its interesting that the Thanagarian Hawkman/Katar Hol has been totally ignored as far as adaptations go since perhaps the Superfriends days. Well, unless you count the 'Hro Talak' character from JL who was originally meant to be a villainous Katar Hol. I guess that's a reflection of how Katar has largely been out of the picture in the comics for the past nearly 30 years, not counting the short-lived New 52 run.

Ironically, Katar Hol is probably the one Silver Age version of a Golden Age character who hasn't seen a major revival in the past two decades. Hal and Barry both came back. Ray Palmer came back. But it's still Carter and not Katar (though now they're technically the same guy...)

[astro@work]

The JLU version with Shayera Hol is still the most prominent version of the character and the one that has gotten the most character development and appearances.

Hawkman appeared in a couple of episodes of Smallville way way in season 8 (?) before being killed off. Likewise, the Hawks appeared in the Arroweverse and were killed off and they barely have a fan base.

(Ahem). And yet here we all are commenting.
Unless you meant no fanbase for the Legends version of the Hawks.

[Psy-lock]

Bang on!

The Black Adam version, incidentally, is the Egypt reincarnation version. The director confirmed it in an interview IIRC (while throwing open the possibility that maybe this incarnation of Carter doesn't remember his past lives yet).

Its interesting that the Thanagarian Hawkman/Katar Hol has been totally ignored as far as adaptations go since perhaps the Superfriends days. Well, unless you count the 'Hro Talak' character from JL who was originally meant to be a villainous Katar Hol. I guess that's a reflection of how Katar has largely been out of the picture in the comics for the past nearly 30 years, not counting the short-lived New 52 run.

Ironically, Katar Hol is probably the one Silver Age version of a Golden Age character who hasn't seen a major revival in the past two decades. Hal and Barry both came back. Ray Palmer came back. But it's still Carter and not Katar (though now they're technically the same guy...)

Hawkman was Thanagarian in The Batman, Young Justice and Justice League: Action. And possibly in the DCAMU since he's on the JL. So he actually has about as many appearances as Carter (though Carter tends to have far more screen time when he shows up).

[Zero Hunter]

Its interesting that the Thanagarian Hawkman/Katar Hol has been totally ignored as far as adaptations go since perhaps the Superfriends days. Well, unless you count the 'Hro Talak' character from JL who was originally meant to be a villainous Katar Hol. I guess that's a reflection of how Katar has largely been out of the picture in the comics for the past nearly 30 years, not counting the short-lived New 52 run.

Ironically, Katar Hol is probably the one Silver Age version of a Golden Age character who hasn't seen a major revival in the past two decades. Hal and Barry both came back. Ray Palmer came back. But it's still Carter and not Katar (though now they're technically the same guy...)

I think that goes back to what I said about the Silver Age Hawkman being a lazy revamp. All the other Silver age revamps were different enough from the golden age versions to stand on their own as their own characters while the silver age Hawkman really wasn't. He was a downgrade.

[The Darknight Detective]

I think that goes back to what I said about the Silver Age Hawkman being a lazy revamp. All the other Silver age revamps were different enough from the golden age versions to stand on their own as their own characters while the silver age Hawkman really wasn't. He was a downgrade.

Why was he a downgrade? Instead of an origin based on mythology, he now had one based more on sci-fi. Now if you prefer one over the other, that's fine, but I don't see one being better than the other on objective terms.

[AdamFTF]

I think that goes back to what I said about the Silver Age Hawkman being a lazy revamp. All the other Silver age revamps were different enough from the golden age versions to stand on their own as their own characters while the silver age Hawkman really wasn't. He was a downgrade.

I don't think it was a lazy revamp considering what they were probably trying to do. Which was preserve the name and design while following the Silver Age DC marching orders of "make it more sci-fi".

I rather like the Silver Age Hawkman. But a lot of the fun comes from when you realize Thanagar isn't just a generic sci-fi planet. It has cultural and societal quirks. Like how people on Thanagar want for nothing, so all the criminals are crazy thrill-seekers. Or even little things like how married Thanagarian women wear earrings instead of wedding rings.

If I were to write a Hawkman reboot, I'd definitely use the Thanagarian Hawks and double down on the alien culture thing. I'd make the Thanagarians this warrior culture with all sorts of societal laws and norms. Then have them stranded on Earth trying to adapt while also hunting down Byth and other criminals. Kind of like "What if a pair of Klingons crashed on Earth and became superheroes".

[JThree]

Seems so. Sorry mate.

the Powers that Be, really did Kater Hal wrong I liked the Silver Age Thanagarian, not the brutish Wolverine wanna be Carter Hall that existed in the 00's. There's been quite a bit of vacillation over the past thirty years. One publisher, almost brought Kater back in a special, and then it didn't happen. And I do think Kater deserves his Shayera; and not all this soap opera stuff.

--jthree

[Zero Hunter]

Why was he a downgrade? Instead of an origin based on mythology, he now had one based more on sci-fi. Now if you prefer one over the other, that's fine, but I don't see one being better than the other on objective terms.

Like I said if you put a picture of the Golden age and silver age Hawkman side by side you could not tell them apart. You do that with Green Lantern or Flash you can tell them apart right away. Even the name is not as clever as they thought it was. They put effort into the others to revamp them while just slapping a new origin on Hawkman. To me that is lazy. They could have changed at least something about his look.

[Thor-Ul]

Like I said if you put a picture of the Golden age and silver age Hawkman side by side you could not tell them apart. You do that with Green Lantern or Flash you can tell them apart right away. Even the name is not as clever as they thought it was. They put effort into the others to revamp them while just slapping a new origin on Hawkman. To me that is lazy. They could have changed at least something about his look.

I would say than Hawkman case was similar to Batman, Superman an Wonder Woman. They also were pretty similar to their golden age versions.
But, of couse, they were still being published in the 50s.

[The Darknight Detective]

Like I said if you put a picture of the Golden age and silver age Hawkman side by side you could not tell them apart. You do that with Green Lantern or Flash you can tell them apart right away. Even the name is not as clever as they thought it was. They put effort into the others to revamp them while just slapping a new origin on Hawkman. To me that is lazy. They could have changed at least something about his look.

They did, but decided to change the Earth-2 Hawks instead, while keeping the cooler look for Katar and Shayera.

[Refrax5]

Bang on!

The Black Adam version, incidentally, is the Egypt reincarnation version. The director confirmed it in an interview IIRC (while throwing open the possibility that maybe this incarnation of Carter doesn't remember his past lives yet).

Its interesting that the Thanagarian Hawkman/Katar Hol has been totally ignored as far as adaptations go since perhaps the Superfriends days. Well, unless you count the 'Hro Talak' character from JL who was originally meant to be a villainous Katar Hol. I guess that's a reflection of how Katar has largely been out of the picture in the comics for the past nearly 30 years, not counting the short-lived New 52 run.

Ironically, Katar Hol is probably the one Silver Age version of a Golden Age character who hasn't seen a major revival in the past two decades. Hal and Barry both came back. Ray Palmer came back. But it's still Carter and not Katar (though now they're technically the same guy...)

Again, the Carter Hall is the DCAU is a reincarnation...of Katar Hol of Thanagar. The Thanagarian version also appeared in the Batman cartoon.

[Ra-El]

The way Venditti did in his run, Hawkman's origin isn't confusing, it´'s quite simple actually.

In a potential adaptation, is just go with that and the general audience will follow it just fine.