Is Hawkman's origin really that confusing?

[GAP]

I may need to his comics but is Hawkman's origin really that confusing?

[MajorHoy]

I may need to his comics but is Hawkman's origin really that confusing?

Depends on which origin(s) / which version(s) you're talking about.

[caj]

Carter Hall's origin was always a little confusing but Kator Hol's was pretty straightforward. But that's just because I don't really understand too much about reincarnation.

[MajorHoy]

Carter Hall's origin was always a little confusing but Kator Hol's was pretty straightforward.

Which "Katar Hol" are you talking about: Silver Age or Hawkworld version?

[caj]

Which "Katar Hol" are you talking about: Silver Age or Hawkworld version?

Silver Age. I never read Hawkworld but heard it was good.

[Hypo]

I may need to his comics but is Hawkman's origin really that confusing?

I miss Comics Alliance - strip by Curt Franklin and Chris Haley.

[Refrax5]

I may need to his comics but is Hawkman's origin really that confusing?

It got confusing in the late 80s when a series of retcons tangled everything up. The current version of Hawkman has simplified it by saying that Hawkman has reincarnated over and over again across both time and space, so every version of Hawkman and Hawkgirl/woman were the same people. Venditti's run explains it.

[Bruce Wayne]

The editor on Hawkworld who got Ostrander to do more stuff for DC hated CoiE and largely tried to sabotage it via malicious compliance. This is supposedly one of the thing he did intentionally another apparently was helping create the problems in the Byrne Superman books and the Levitz Legion. There's interviews you can find where he basically says he wasn't a fan of Crisis.

[SilverScarlet]

I think it was handled perfectly in the last series!

[Psy-lock]

I think it was handled perfectly in the last series!

While I liked that Venditti tied everything together, he really didn't need to turn Hawkman into a mass murderer for that.

[Jim Kelly]

To my recollection, Gardner Fox didn't dwell too much on the reincarnation origin in the 1940s comics. Origins weren't a big deal back then, they just served to give the character a reason for existing and then they could be forgotten about. The only '40s comics that come to mind at the moment, where they dwelt on the origin stories, were the Spirit and Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman. Most comics, you didn't need to know the origin story and they didn't keep rehashing it. Hawkman and Hawkgirl put all that stuff behind them and got on with having crimefighting adventures like everyone else in their circle of friends.

[bat39]

The two Hawkman origins are not confusing in themselves, any more than Hal Jordan and Alan Scott having different origins were confusing.

Of course, one key difference was that unlike the GL's and the Flashes, the two Hawkmans (and Hawkgirls) wore more or less the same costume and even had the same civilian identities as Carter and Shiera Hall! So that was really the 'original sin' when it came to the tangled origins because it became easy to confuse the two versions and cut-and-paste/mix-and-match them during the later continuity reboots.

The chronological placement of Hawkworld (after the Silver Age Hawks had already appeared Post-COIE) was where the trouble really began, with the Golden Age versions 'replacing' the Silver Age versions in the JLA's history, and then 'new' Post-COIE versions being retroactively inserted into JLI history

And then Zero Hour decided to literally merge them all together before killing them off. Johns resurrected Carter Hall on Thanagar but with Katar Hol's hair color. Kendra Saunders being Shiera 'possessing' her niece but not remembering her past lives just added to the convolution. The New 52 made life hell for everyone. And then Venditti decided to just take the confusion between Katar and Carter to its logical conclusion by making Katar one of Carter's past lives (or is it the other way round?)

So its really a lack of visual distinction (or distinction in names!) between the two that, over decades of retcons, reboots and continuity nightmares, became a radioactive headache...

To my recollection, Gardner Fox didn't dwell too much on the reincarnation origin in the 1940s comics. Origins weren't a big deal back then, they just served to give the character a reason for existing and then they could be forgotten about. The only '40s comics that come to mind at the moment, where they dwelt on the origin stories, were the Spirit and Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman. Most comics, you didn't need to know the origin story and they didn't keep rehashing it. Hawkman and Hawkgirl put all that stuff behind them and got on with having crimefighting adventures like everyone else in their circle of friends.

Yeah it's crazy (by modern standards) how little the Golden Age focused on origin stories/backstories. Superman and Batman were published for almost a decade before their origin stories were first retold in the comics (not counting Superboy perhaps). I don't think Flash or GL even had their origins retold during their original Golden Age runs.

In hindsight, maybe this is what fuelled the culture of retcons and reboots when origins and lore-building really started to become a thing in the 50's and 60's. The origins had been out of print for so long that writers felt they could safely add, remove or completely change elements as they saw fit - the most extreme case being the 'reboot' of Flash as Barry Allen in 1956.

[Jim Kelly]

I think the fact that Gardner Fox, Joe Kubert and Julie Schwartz didn't want to make major changes to the original Hawkman is testament to how good the first character was--at least in design. They changed his origin to make him a science fiction hero, because science fiction heroes were cool. Gardner Fox had been writing Adam Strange, which was the coolest series ever published of all time!!! Joe Kubert made a few minor changes to the hawk headdress and he made Shayera/Shiera look like Julie's red-haired wife--and gave Carter/Katar jet black hair just like Tarzan/Prince Valiant (Hal Foster being one of Joe's heroes--and Kubert would write and illustrate Tarzan a decade later).

At one point in their discussions of how to revive the Atom, they were considering calling him Al Pratt, just like the original Mighty Atom. If they had stuck with that name--instead of Ray Palmer, the name of a science fiction writer and editor that Julie knew (Palmer being a very short man)--we would probably have a whole 'nother kerfuffle about the two Al Pratts on the clutter-Earth.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I may need to his comics but is Hawkman's origin really that confusing?

Both origins are easy to follow on their own. Unlike the other legacies they didn't seperate the two versions visually and by name.

[king81992]

I miss Comics Alliance - strip by Curt Franklin and Chris Haley.

What a mindscrew.