Kal-L of Earth-Two

[bat39]

Idk why he would need to return. The only difference between him and Earth-1 Superman was that Earth-2 Superman was married to Lois and editor of the Daily Star.

Yeah. And now the current Superman is married to Lois and Lois is, I believe, the Editor-in-Chief of the Daily Planet. Funny how things work out!

I kinda like the idea from the new JSA series that our Kal-El will eventually become a lot like Kal-L, and wear his suit with the Golden Age-esq chest symbol.

The appeal of Earth 2 and those versions of the character ultimately was that they advance the status quo in a way that the then-current Silver/Bronze Age versions wouldn't. All that has changed now. So in that sense Kal-L is kinda redundant.

But if they have a great story for him that's worthy of bringing him back...why not?

[DABellWrites]

1) Except it wasn't unraveled. DC nixed his plans before it happened. We have multiple sources that Loeb's were never fully implemented due to various reasons.

2) His ideas were to integrate the Silver Age + Byrne Continuity into one thing like what Morrison did with Batman and it didn't happen.

Birthright happened AFTER Loeb was gone (from the main superbooks). The constant creative shuffle on the superbooks of course had nothing to do with Loeb. The same for the status quo from the Kahn era including the Byrne stuff lasting (until) after she had left the company

It really seems like the 2000s was when everything went into the toilet for Superman.

[Jim Kelly]

In 1973, when Superman celebrated his 35th anniversary, I struggled with this question of whether I was celebrating the 35th anniversary of one Superman or two. By then I had read books on and read a few reprints from the 1930s and 1940s Superman. So I knew he had been different back then. But I decided in my own mind that there is one Superman.

The concept of an Earth-Two Superman is something that was actually developed in the 1970s. This wasn't really true to the Superman that existed in the 1930s and 1940s. E. Nelson Bridwell selected certain facts to heighten the contrast between Earth-One and Earth-Two.

However, stories that aren't part of the ongoing continuity were already being done in the 1940s. And these are useful, because they let the creators blow off steam and indulge their fantasies before returning to the business of telling the ongoing Superman story.

Just because we get these Elseworlds and Imaginary Stories, we don't have to go crazy trying to figure out which is the real one. Yet, the reboot in 1986 forced readers to take sides as there was such a hard break between the Superman of 1985 and the new Superman of 1986--if one version had incrementally morphed into the next version, that never would have forced readers to take those sides. The 1930s morphed into the 1940s which morphed into the 1950s which morphed into the 1960s which morphed into the 1970s. It's all the same Superman but with adjustments along the way.

That's the idea that supported Morrison and Quitely's ALL-STAR SUPERMAN--it was supposed to be Superman if there had been no hard break but just a gradual transition in the continuity to arrive at their version.

If you took the Superman from 2023 and selectively contrasted him with the Superman from 1988, you could construct a dichotomy based on that 35 year gap. You could have an Earth-1988 and an Earth-2023. And that would be okay, because it's just an Imaginary Story.

[Bruce Wayne]

It really seems like the 2000s was when everything went into the toilet for Superman.

This was the point when writer tenure became shorter and shorter. Guys like Morrison/Rucka/Johns having 20-28 issue runs became the norm. There was no equivalent to a Snyder or Morrison run for the Superbooks. The closest thing was the Loeb-Kelly era. Less stability and more micromanaiging by editorial for reasons and people exiting.

[HsssH]

Didn't he get killed off in rather perfunctory fashion by Johns? As a bare afterthought and cheap emotional pop, (largely cheap because it was clear from the start Johns planned on killing him off for effect, and because no one had seen this character in 40 years)? And didn't Johns then drag his corpse through the mud in that Final Night thing? Not that sure Johns is who you want...

I'll never understand why some people act like it was all Didio when Johns was partner in crime for many of the darker moments in recent DC's stories. Somehow Morrison, another partner in crime, didn't end up murdering everyone and even made weird ideas like recent Authority mini work and sidestep ugly parts of it. But I guess Johns had gun placed to his head by Didio and couldn't do anything but drag characters thru the mud.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I would want to see Kal- L again but I would be disappointed if he was just temple grey leaping Daily Star Superman. I would want to see that guy with 80 years of super evolution. He would be more like Morrison’s Superman and the Authority Superman. I would want to see some change and growth rather than a Time Capsule of the 30s.

[Bruce Wayne]

I'll never understand why some people act like it was all Didio when Johns was partner in crime for many of the darker moments in recent DC's stories.

1) That doesn't explain why the pattern continues beyond Johns with guys like Winnick and Rucka who also collaborated heavily with Didio or stuff like Countdown or New 52 or even 5G where Johns presences was heavily curtailed (or non-existent) and it was mostly Dan in the driver's sat. You can believe that bad man Johns was a bad influence on poor innocent Dan and he took a bad turn because of evil Geoff, but that's clearly not the reality of the situation.

2) Deaths are determined beforehand by editorial. That's very clear in Infinite Crisis in that everything was suppose to be a lead in for something else. Hector dies for the Gerber Doctor Fate. Freedom Fighters die for the Palmiotti Gray FF. Superboy dies as a tradeoff. Wizard dies for Trials of Shazam, etc. For Infinite Crisis, Didio had his death lists that writers needed to implement.

Somehow Morrison, another partner in crime, didn't end up murdering everyone and even made weird ideas like recent Authority mini work and sidestep ugly parts of it.

Because Dan was gone when most of the Authority mini was hashed out. Morrison only had a pitch and concept outline before Didio got himself fired. Most of the actual comic was hashed out later by Superman writers (PKJ) and Superman editorial and reinvented as a different story. Read the Morrison substack for bts.

[HsssH]

Death lists can be changed. Let alone that death itself is often not the main problem, but how the character dies and how he acts in the story before getting killed. And was there a zombie list for Blackest Night?

[Jim Kelly]

Well, the solution could had been change the name of the character. They did it for the Legion of Superheroes cartoon. They never called Clark as Superboy there, he always was Superman. Same as with Superboy Prime than was transformed in Superman Prime dugring Countdown. With Kon, DC perfectly could had choose to keep him alive, but change his identity and name. The fights were about the rights of the name of the "Superboy" character name, but by origin, Kon-El was a different character. But no, DiDio wanted to kill Nightwing and how he couldn't he took his frustrations on Kon-El.

The on-screen credit that floors me is Siegel and Shuster for Supergirl. For Superman and Superboy, I understand, but it seems a long walk from Superman to Supergirl. By rights it should be Otto Binder, Al Plastino and Mort Weisinger. But I would guess they were all work for hire and therefore have no legal claim, even though they were the ones directly involved in creating the Kara Zor-El version of Supergirl--and Curt Swan and Stan Kaye doing the cover for ACTION COMICS 252 (since covers were often drawn before the stories, that might have been the concept art that Al Plastino used for his Supergirl).

And, of course, there were several Super-Girls and Super-Women that came before her. The one usually highlighted is the Super-Girl from SUPERMAN 123--again with Binder as writer and Swan and Kaye as cover artists, but with Sprang and Kaye art on the story.

I guess that since Kara Zor-El is from Krypton by way of Argo City, a floating planetoid in space, she's derived from the original concept of Jerry and Joe, but that seems a weak argument. By the same logic the Barry Allen Flash must be credited to Gardner Fox and Harry Lampert and the Hal Jordan Green Lantern to Bill Finger and Martin Nodell.

[The Frog Bros]

In 1973, when Superman celebrated his 35th anniversary, I struggled with this question of whether I was celebrating the 35th anniversary of one Superman or two. By then I had read books on and read a few reprints from the 1930s and 1940s Superman. So I knew he had been different back then. But I decided in my own mind that there is one Superman.

The concept of an Earth-Two Superman is something that was actually developed in the 1970s. This wasn't really true to the Superman that existed in the 1930s and 1940s. E. Nelson Bridwell selected certain facts to heighten the contrast between Earth-One and Earth-Two.

However, stories that aren't part of the ongoing continuity were already being done in the 1940s. And these are useful, because they let the creators blow off steam and indulge their fantasies before returning to the business of telling the ongoing Superman story.

Just because we get these Elseworlds and Imaginary Stories, we don't have to go crazy trying to figure out which is the real one. Yet, the reboot in 1986 forced readers to take sides as there was such a hard break between the Superman of 1985 and the new Superman of 1986--if one version had incrementally morphed into the next version, that never would have forced readers to take those sides. The 1930s morphed into the 1940s which morphed into the 1950s which morphed into the 1960s which morphed into the 1970s. It's all the same Superman but with adjustments along the way.

That's the idea that supported Morrison and Quitely's ALL-STAR SUPERMAN--it was supposed to be Superman if there had been no hard break but just a gradual transition in the continuity to arrive at their version.

If you took the Superman from 2023 and selectively contrasted him with the Superman from 1988, you could construct a dichotomy based on that 35 year gap. You could have an Earth-1988 and an Earth-2023. And that would be okay, because it's just an Imaginary Story.

I would want to see Kal- L again but I would be disappointed if he was just temple grey leaping Daily Star Superman. I would want to see that guy with 80 years of super evolution. He would be more like Morrison’s Superman and the Authority Superman. I would want to see some change and growth rather than a Time Capsule of the 30s.

The whole evolutionary timeline aspect of Morrison's Superman is one of the things I find so appealing of their version. Add in the N52 and One Million versions and its a remarkable timeline for the character. What else I also found amazingly cool is that each respective version did not even come out in chronological order. Plus, you don't necessarily have to have read each one to appreciate and enjoy the stories. Reading each one does make it next level awesome through the long-game connective tissue though.

So yeah, I would like to see the Earth Two version but would be a little picky about the writer and the project/story. As others have said, I wouldn't necessarily want to see it just for nostalgia's sake alone. Would def need to be a cool story and not just to do it for the sake of doing it.

[bat39]

In 1973, when Superman celebrated his 35th anniversary, I struggled with this question of whether I was celebrating the 35th anniversary of one Superman or two. By then I had read books on and read a few reprints from the 1930s and 1940s Superman. So I knew he had been different back then. But I decided in my own mind that there is one Superman.

The concept of an Earth-Two Superman is something that was actually developed in the 1970s. This wasn't really true to the Superman that existed in the 1930s and 1940s. E. Nelson Bridwell selected certain facts to heighten the contrast between Earth-One and Earth-Two.

However, stories that aren't part of the ongoing continuity were already being done in the 1940s. And these are useful, because they let the creators blow off steam and indulge their fantasies before returning to the business of telling the ongoing Superman story.

Just because we get these Elseworlds and Imaginary Stories, we don't have to go crazy trying to figure out which is the real one. Yet, the reboot in 1986 forced readers to take sides as there was such a hard break between the Superman of 1985 and the new Superman of 1986--if one version had incrementally morphed into the next version, that never would have forced readers to take those sides. The 1930s morphed into the 1940s which morphed into the 1950s which morphed into the 1960s which morphed into the 1970s. It's all the same Superman but with adjustments along the way.

That's the idea that supported Morrison and Quitely's ALL-STAR SUPERMAN--it was supposed to be Superman if there had been no hard break but just a gradual transition in the continuity to arrive at their version.

If you took the Superman from 2023 and selectively contrasted him with the Superman from 1988, you could construct a dichotomy based on that 35 year gap. You could have an Earth-1988 and an Earth-2023. And that would be okay, because it's just an Imaginary Story.

Agreed.

The Earth Two Superman is really a construct of the Bronze Age created to represent the Golden Age. His creation was actually a technical matter - to solve the continuity problem of Superman having been a JSA member and a JLA member, despite the JSA and JLA existing on two different earths. They then decided to throw in some attributes of the earliest Superman stories to distinguish the Earth Two Superman from the then-contemporary Earth One version (Daily Star, the chest symbol), make him older (like the other JSA members were) and advance his story in ways they couldn't with the Earth One version at that point (having him be married to Lois).

But it's not like the Earth Two Superman is any more or less the 'real' Superman or the 'original' than the guy in the current books.

I actually think the Metaverse concept from Doomsday Clock does a brilliant job contextualizing the Earth Two Superman. There's ONE Superman in the Metaverse who keeps evolving with every timeline shift - but everytime the timeline shifts a 'backup' version is created on another earth. That's what the Earth Two Superman is - a 'backup' of the earliest iteration of Superman in the Metaverse. Maybe you can consider him the 'original' in the sense that he more accurately reflects the guy from Action Comics # 1...but actually the guy from Action Comics # 1 eventually morphed into the guy from Man of Steel # 1 who eventually morphed into the guy from the latest issue on the stands, so he has a claim to being the 'original' as well (being the one who, version after version, has been published continuously since 1938).

[Captain Britain of Earth 20]

Kal-L died a hero fighting Superboy of Earth Prime to me, it's like Uncle Ben's death in Spiderman it shouldn't be messed with unless it's an incredibly written story

[Jim Kelly]

Poor Superboy of Earth Prime. I don't think Elliot Maggin, Curt Swan and Al Williamson had this fate in mind when they created him for DC COMICS PRESENTS 87 (November 1985).

[Waldo]

Kal L return would work if they made most New52 stories as a pseudo earth 1.5(Greg pak superman, Azarello Wonderwoman,...).
New 52 was already more late 30s Kal L than Kal El outside Lobdell and Geoff stuff

[Sacred Knight]

How long has it been since I peddled this old theory? The answer is too long! I still think they should just outright say that the current Superman is Earth-Two Superman, spiritually. That the current world is what used to be Earth-Two, reformed. Earth-0=Earth-Two, and eventually a new Earth-1 that in the same vein would be the old Earth-One reformed.