Kal-L of Earth-Two

[Jim Kelly]

Was the Lois Lane mini the last truly "in-continuity" story for the Pre-Crisis Superman? It's a fine comic indeed, but it feels deeply weird for a grand finale.

I talked about it just recently on "The Super-Men...of All-Planets." As I said there:

LOIS LANE 2 went on sale June 25th, 1986, after DC COMICS PRESENTS 97, SUPERMAN 423 and ACTION COMICS 583, so it was the very last Superman Family comic to come out before the big change in MAN OF STEEL 1, on sale July 10th, 1986.

. . . When I originally read this LOIS LANE mini-series, I thought it was supposed to be one of the first comics in the new reality. I didn't yet know what the reboot would do to the Superman Family.

It was probably going to be a four issue mini-series but was doubled up to make it two issues--I guess so it could go on sale before the Big Change. And I think they may have cut some content to fit it all in. There's a storyline involving Jimmy and Lucy where they apparently went under-cover as a married couple, but we don't get to see that. We just get the beginning of this sub-plot and the end of it, but not all the juicy in-between scenes. And the whole Lois Lane arc ends rather abruptly, with many loose ends. It doesn't seem like they were packing up the office and turning out the lights. There was more story in the hopper.

[bat39]

I'm not sure I can explain it, but let me see if I can try. Here was Giordano on national T.V. to talk about Superman--who never seems to age. The official mainstream Superman. The interviewer pulls up a picture on the screen of Superman looking old. And that puts Giordano back on his heels--he can't waste valuable air time explaining about Earth-Two and that this is actually a Superman on another Earth and not the Superman that is featured in most comics, the one he's here to promote--it was an unwelcome curve ball, putting him off his game. Thus his look of discomfort.

Of course, this is all from memory and my brain may have embellished and changed the details over the years.

Honestly, I don't think it'd have been the hardest thing in the world for him to have quickly explained "Oh that's an older Superman from a parallel earth" and left it at that!

Other than now, I think mainstream Superman was his oldest in the early 1960s. Weisinger had Swan draw him to look a bit like George Reeves with a receding hairline. Superman seemed to get younger after that as he got some Rogaine. So by the 1970s, he was looking much younger than he had before. Also Mort maintained that Superman had been around since 1938--which he had--how this worked out in the world of Superman was up to the reader to deal with. But all the Superboy stories predated 1938. In 1970, with Weisinger's retirement, that changed as they decided Superboy was about fifteen years behind Superman and Superman was eternally 29 years old (and this held true right up to Crisis).

Since the median age of the readership was gradually getting older and Superman was getting younger, you can see that we were converging on being almost the same age as our hero.

Yeah, that's an interesting point. For all the obsession with keeping Superman and the other heroes young that we've had in the last few decades, no one was particularly concerned about it back in the Silver Age and earlier.

Granted, back in the 60's, being 30-something was 'old', or at least 'mature', compared to today.

I talked about it just recently on "The Super-Men...of All-Planets." As I said there:



It was probably going to be a four issue mini-series but was doubled up to make it two issues--I guess so it could go on sale before the Big Change. And I think they may have cut some content to fit it all in. There's a storyline involving Jimmy and Lucy where they apparently went under-cover as a married couple, but we don't get to see that. We just get the beginning of this sub-plot and the end of it, but not all the juicy in-between scenes. And the whole Lois Lane arc ends rather abruptly, with many loose ends. It doesn't seem like they were packing up the office and turning out the lights. There was more story in the hopper.

This does fit in with what Byrne has said in interviews about how he didn't want to do a hard reboot of Superman and that DC later pushed him to wipe out all past continuity. Its possible that maybe the writers of this mini believed they'd be able to continue unaffected and got the memo too late?

[Jim Kelly]

Granted, back in the 60's, being 30-something was 'old', or at least 'mature', compared to today.

Well, I suppose at the beginning of the 1960s, most kids trusted the older generation. But then with all the stuff that went down during the 1960s, by the end of it the saying "Don't trust anyone over 30" gained traction with all us youngsters. I totally believed this piece of collective wisdom. And Superman becoming 29 meant he was safe and I could trust him. This is actually an important plot point in "The Miraculous Return of Jonathan Kent"/"The Secret World of Jonathan Kent"--ACTION COMICS 507 (May 1980) - 508 (June 1980)--by Bates, Swan and Chiaramonte.

[Uncanny X-Man]

I think the general idea is that the full effects of COIE took some time to hit and fully establish the new timeline. Apparently there was a story in All-Star Squadron which showed the 'ripple effect' changing the DCU - I haven't read it but I remember seeing a panel where we see a photograph of the JSA's classic membership changing, Back to the Future style, to remove the Golden Age Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Robin and a few other characters.

In practical terms, we end COIE with Superman mourning the death of his cousin Kara. But then, at some point, the new timeline fully sets in and Superman 'becomes' the Byrne Superman who's never had a cousin, but still vaguely remembers the 'Crisis'.

Of course, none of this was remotely explained in a consistent way in those early Post-COIE comics.

Incidentially, Marv Wolfman wanted to avoid this very issue by ending the COIE story with the battle at the Dawn of Time, after which the new history of the DCU fully sets in and no one remembers the Multiverse or the Crisis. But the brass wanted the heroes who were at the Dawn of Time to remember COIE, because they felt that the story would become meaningless if it was totally erased from the new continuity. And that, in a way, was the genesis of a lot of the anomalies surrounding the placement of Crisis in the Post-COIE timeline...

Thank you so much! I've been wondering about this for ages and was always curious if some sort of explanation was ever offered in the comics.

I think the general idea is that the full effects of COIE took some time to hit and fully establish the new timeline

That's basically been my headcanon for years LOL

[bat39]

Thank you so much! I've been wondering about this for ages and was always curious if some sort of explanation was ever offered in the comics.



That's basically been my headcanon for years LOL

Yeah, it confused the hell out of me too! And honestly, I haven't read nearly enough comics from that period to fully understand how it was explained (or not).

A few anomalies that really stood out to me back then were:

1. Superman's Post-COIE history. So the MOS miniseries covers his early years, which amounts to a span of about 3 years. The relaunched Superman title picks up immediately after. Yet, the relaunched title has Superman as an established hero co-existing with other heroes in the present-day DCU! If we take that at face value, it would mean that all the events of the DCU that were retained after COIE, from Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing and forming the New Teen Titans, to the various iterations of the JLA, would have happened in a mere 3 years! And to add to the weirdness, Superman was meeting most iconic members of his rogue's gallery in the 'present-day' for the first time. So you had a situation where Superman encountered Metallo and learnt about kryptonite at roughly the same time as the Justice League International was forming :O

2. Batman's timeline wasn't affected as much because he was only soft-rebooted, but it also took a bit of a hit. First off, in the months following COIE, Bronze Age stories of Batman and Jason Todd's Robin (in his original Dick Grayson-clone avatar) continued unabated for awhile. Then Year One happened and the present-day stories also subtly shifted to the continuity. But the very first major post-Year One story was Jason Todd's new origin as Robin which seemed to be set...in the present-day! At a time when Dick had already been Nightwing for awhile. They later kinda explained this in an issue where Dick shows up at the Batcave and recounts the circumstances of his separation from Batman, claiming it happened '18 months ago' (but weirdly enough, suggesting that Dick's entire time with the original Teen Titans happened after he left Batman). And I believe Jim Starlin claimed in a letter column at some point that Jason's origin actually happened '3 years ago', though I don't think this was ever confirmed on-panel.

3. And now the weirdest one of this bunch...Power Girl! The Secret Origins issue that recounted her new Atlantean origin had her remember her her entire Pre-COIE history and Kal-L. But then she learns from Arion that her memories are fake and that she's actually Atlantean. Okay, fair enough...but then why do her 'fake memories' establish her as the cousin of an alternate Superman from a destroyed earth? And her memories of Earth 2 and Kal-L are never brought up again...when Johns' revisited her original origin again, the whole point of the story was Karen not knowing her true origins (there was a retcon that established that she briefly believed she was Post-COIE Superman's cousin only for tests to prove her wrong) and she only gets back her memories after meeting Kal-L again during IC. So I guess we're just meant to forget, along with her, that weird period of time when she did remember Earth 2 only to be told its a fake memory...

[Jim Kelly]

I always thought it was five years, but maybe that's just my metric thinking.

In any case, it ended up not mattering. That gap of three or five years was when all the pre-Crisis stories happened, but we had to assume that they happened differently with this de-powered Superman. However, new stories in the ongoing continuity introduced characters for the first time that had existed pre-Crisis--like Metallo, for example--so each time that happened it deleted the possibility of the old story having happened in the past. So really this gap time in the past was virtually empty of any stories, unless they did a flashback to establish a new version of the old story, like with Lori Lemaris.

So they told us there was this whole period of Superman stories, but they denied us the chance to read those stories. And, with a new Superman starting at the beginning of his career, that would have been interesting stuff to read.

[bat39]

I always thought it was five years, but maybe that's just my metric thinking.

In any case, it ended up not mattering. That gap of three or five years was when all the pre-Crisis stories happened, but we had to assume that they happened differently with this de-powered Superman. However, new stories in the ongoing continuity introduced characters for the first time that had existed pre-Crisis--like Metallo, for example--so each time that happened it deleted the possibility of the old story having happened in the past. So really this gap time in the past was virtually empty of any stories, unless they did a flashback to establish a new version of the old story, like with Lori Lemaris.

So they told us there was this whole period of Superman stories, but they denied us the chance to read those stories. And, with a new Superman starting at the beginning of his career, that would have been interesting stuff to read.

You're not entirely wrong about the five years either...in MOS # 5, Lois mentions she'd been dreaming of kissing Superman for 'five years'. But that's probably an error though...the rest of the timeline for MOS is pretty consistent and it ends with Superman about 3 years into his career (he leaves Smallville at 18, makes his debut as Superman 7 years later at 25, and at the end of the series he's 28).

For what it's worth John Byrne agrees with you. He wanted MOS to focus on a rookie Superman learning the ropes and then pick up the relaunched title years later with an established Superman. He also wanted to fold in as much Pre-COIE continuity as possible. But TPTB told him it had to be a hard reboot that discarded everything that came before, and that MOS had to directly lead into the relaunched title. So MOS had to skip through Superman's early career and give us an established veteran Man of Steel by the end who was 'caught up' with the rest of the DCU.

But yeah, it did create this weird 'gap' wherein Superman spent years of his career just doing routine stuff, crossing paths with Luthor a couple of times, and having one fight with Bizarro. I don't think there were ever any stories that set out to plug this gap and explain what Superman was doing all those years without any of his big-name rogue's to fight.

Also, despite MOS's timeline, the gap had to be closer to 10 years than 3, simply to account for Dick Grayson being Nightwing, among other things. This isn't even something that can be explained away by "Oh Superman started his career years after Batman and the other heroes". MOS # 3 features a Batman who's relatively early in his career, since he's still a wanted vigilante in Gotham, Robin is nowhere in sight, and he's wearing a very Golden Age-ish suit (this was before Year One was published).

[DABellWrites]

Not sure where we disagree, except maybe in the part I highlighted above. Going by Doomsday Clock's explanation, when the Golden Age DCU morphed into the Silver Age DCU, Earth 2 was created as a 'backup' of the Golden Age continuity. Ergo, the Golden Age Superman gradually evolved into the Silver Age Superman (which reflects the actual publication history of the late 40's and 50's) while Earth 2 had a Superman who was a 'backup' of the Golden Age Superman. I think its a pretty good retroactive explanation that answers the question of whether the Earth 2 Superman is the 'original' Superman or not.

You're right though that the Earth 2 Superman pretty much was the Earth 1 Superman with some Golden Age elements grafted onto him. Let's not forget though that for most of the Golden Age as published, Superman was a lot like what the Earth 1 Superman would be. The Siegal/Shuster Superman pretty much lasted only the first 2-3 years of the character's publication. It didn't take long before we had all the 'classic' elements in place - Superman as a symbol of Truth, Justice and the American Way, the classic chest symbol, Superman flying and displaying all the other iconic powers, the Daily Planet with Perry White and Jimmy Olsen, and so on. So if Earth 2 Superman was a 'backup' of the Golden Age Superman, it makes sense that he'd reflect those developments from the late 40's as well, and not just be the 1938 version of the character (though they did stick him with some 1938 stuff like the Daily Star and George Taylor, or the chest symbol...at one point I think they even tried to suggest that present-day Earth 2 Superman couldn't fly!)

If DC called and designated Earth-2 as the original stories that was published in the golden age, then it was. It's just adding a retcon on top a retcon with the metaverse. When did Superman become the Superman of Earth-1? In 1961? Well, Lana Lang was around for eleven years by this point. Kara was still Supergirl in secrecy, far as I know. Was it the debut of Superboy in 1943? Johns places it in 1961, but Superman already had everything what's considered to be Earth-1 before Earth-1 was a thing. So, maybe he'll come explore that idea in the future. Where exactly Earth-1 started. 1956? Well, how far back does Clark time as Superboy actually go? What if we place Clark as Superboy in 1938? Okay, he'd be six years old. Which isn't too far-fetched for Earth-1 Superman to be active. But, if 6 is too much we can do 1944. He'll be 12. Being born in 1932 lines up with the eternally 29 and 1961 origins. I guess the only problem is that Clark's years doesn't match up with the publication dates anymore. Well, for the Legion and Superboy that is.

There's only one Superman, who was published in 1938 and has been since. In a way, I do agree with the concept of the metaverse of there being one Superman. Because take Earth-2 out of the picture Clark from 1938-1986 was forty-eight years of evolving continuity. Superman from 1986-2011 was 25 years of evolving continuity. We don't really have that uninterrupted decades long evolving continuity anymore. DC Comics has spent the last seven years undoing New52.

[bat39]

If DC called and designated Earth-2 as the original stories that was published in the golden age, then it was. It's just adding a retcon on top a retcon with the metaverse. When did Superman become the Superman of Earth-1? In 1961? Well, Lana Lang was around for eleven years by this point. Kara was still Supergirl in secrecy, far as I know. Was it the debut of Superboy in 1943? Johns places it in 1961, but Superman already had everything what's considered to be Earth-1 before Earth-1 was a thing. So, maybe he'll come explore that idea in the future. Where exactly Earth-1 started. 1956? Well, how far back does Clark time as Superboy actually go? What if we place Clark as Superboy in 1938? Okay, he'd be six years old. Which isn't too far-fetched for Earth-1 Superman to be active. But, if 6 is too much we can do 1944. He'll be 12. Being born in 1932 lines up with the eternally 29 and 1961 origins. I guess the only problem is that Clark's years doesn't match up with the publication dates anymore. Well, for the Legion and Superboy that is.

There's only one Superman, who was published in 1938 and has been since. In a way, I do agree with the concept of the metaverse of there being one Superman. Because take Earth-2 out of the picture Clark from 1938-1986 was forty-eight years of evolving continuity. Superman from 1986-2011 was 25 years of evolving continuity. We don't really have that uninterrupted decades long evolving continuity anymore. DC Comics has spent the last seven years undoing New52.

As you've rightly said, from a real-world perspective, the character of Superman organically evolved over time from 1938 to 1986. But at some point, around 1970(?), DC created an older doppelganger of Superman and said he's meant to be the character from the 30's and 40's comics, distinct from the 'current' version headlining the latest books. I think the Metaverse concept does a great job reflecting this paradigm - there is one Superman in the Metaverse who kept changing, but a 'backup' of the earliest iteration of Superman was preserved on another earth in the Multiverse i.e. the Earth 2 Superman. So this way, Kal-L is representative of the 'original' Superman, but the current Superman is also the original Superman who has evolved over the decades into his present form.

When it comes to the beginning of the Silver Age, Geoff Johns' stance is pretty clear - 1956. The events of Showcase # 4 to be specific. Barry Allen being struck by lightning was the beginning of the Silver Age from a real-world perspective, and in-universe too, it marked the first shift in the Metaverse, and the transition from the Golden Age continuity to the Silver Age continuity. He establishes the Silver Age Superman as debuting in 1956, having been born in 1931. He also depicts Silver Age Clark losing his father in 1949, around the same time as Superman # 53 was published (the first major retelling of Superman's origin, and the one which established the template for the origin that was broadly followed right up till Byrne's reboot). Superboy isn't mentioned by Johns, but it's not impossible to imagine he could have been active during the 1940's (which lines up with More Fun Comics #101 being published in early 1945).

It isn't just Superman - DC recently published a Silver Age Batman Omnibus that starts with 1956 stories. So clearly they've decided that 1956 is the cut-off point between the Golden Age and Silver Age. For Batman too, it kind of lines up pretty well - the Golden Age/Earth 2 Batman and Selina Kyle got married in 1955 and that's the first big point of divergence between the two versions. It's fitting therefore that the Silver Age Batman is now considered to begin in 1956.

[All Star Superman]

Poor Superboy of Earth Prime. I don't think Elliot Maggin, Curt Swan and Al Williamson had this fate in mind when they created him for DC COMICS PRESENTS 87 (November 1985).

I read my brother's copies of COIE and I loved Superboy Prime. I didn't fully realize it at the time, but his origin was incredibly innovative and had tons of potential that was thankfully explored somewhat by Busiek in Secret Identity. I hated what became of Superboy Prime. He should have remained the great hero he became during the Crisis. Kal-L and Superboy Prime's return, along with heroic Alexander Luthor, should have been an awe-inspiring and powerful moment for the heroes of the DCU. Instead, they were turned in villains or made morally "gray" to appease certain DC execs.

[DABellWrites]

As you've rightly said, from a real-world perspective, the character of Superman organically evolved over time from 1938 to 1986. But at some point, around 1970(?), DC created an older doppelganger of Superman and said he's meant to be the character from the 30's and 40's comics, distinct from the 'current' version headlining the latest books. I think the Metaverse concept does a great job reflecting this paradigm - there is one Superman in the Metaverse who kept changing, but a 'backup' of the earliest iteration of Superman was preserved on another earth in the Multiverse i.e. the Earth 2 Superman. So this way, Kal-L is representative of the 'original' Superman, but the current Superman is also the original Superman who has evolved over the decades into his present form.

When it comes to the beginning of the Silver Age, Geoff Johns' stance is pretty clear - 1956. The events of Showcase # 4 to be specific. Barry Allen being struck by lightning was the beginning of the Silver Age from a real-world perspective, and in-universe too, it marked the first shift in the Metaverse, and the transition from the Golden Age continuity to the Silver Age continuity. He establishes the Silver Age Superman as debuting in 1956, having been born in 1931. He also depicts Silver Age Clark losing his father in 1949, around the same time as Superman # 53 was published (the first major retelling of Superman's origin, and the one which established the template for the origin that was broadly followed right up till Byrne's reboot). Superboy isn't mentioned by Johns, but it's not impossible to imagine he could have been active during the 1940's (which lines up with More Fun Comics #101 being published in early 1945).

It isn't just Superman - DC recently published a Silver Age Batman Omnibus that starts with 1956 stories. So clearly they've decided that 1956 is the cut-off point between the Golden Age and Silver Age. For Batman too, it kind of lines up pretty well - the Golden Age/Earth 2 Batman and Selina Kyle got married in 1955 and that's the first big point of divergence between the two versions. It's fitting therefore that the Silver Age Batman is now considered to begin in 1956.

Interesting, I thought 1932 myself. 1931 works too. While I still disagree with Earth-1&2, I see no point to go back-and-forth. When did Batman and Catowoman get married in 1955? I had thought Bruce and Kathy were the thing in the 1950s and Catwoman had gone out of continuity by this point?

[witchboy]

Interesting, I thought 1932 myself. 1931 works too. While I still disagree with Earth-1&2, I see no point to go back-and-forth. When did Batman and Catowoman get married in 1955? I had thought Bruce and Kathy were the thing in the 1950s and Catwoman had gone out of continuity by this point?

I'm not sure about the exact dating, but my understanding here is that the Bruce and Selina marriage was a retcon having taken place on Earth 2 then but not revealed to readers until decades later, while Kathy's stories were on Earth 1. Possibly some Kathy stories took place on both Earth 1 and Earth 2.

[bat39]

Interesting, I thought 1932 myself. 1931 works too. While I still disagree with Earth-1&2, I see no point to go back-and-forth. When did Batman and Catowoman get married in 1955? I had thought Bruce and Kathy were the thing in the 1950s and Catwoman had gone out of continuity by this point?

I'm not sure about the exact dating, but my understanding here is that the Bruce and Selina marriage was a retcon having taken place on Earth 2 then but not revealed to readers until decades later, while Kathy's stories were on Earth 1. Possibly some Kathy stories took place on both Earth 1 and Earth 2.

Yeah, the Bruce-Selina marriage was something retroactively established as taking place on Earth 2 in 1955.

Kathy Kane was introduced in 1956 and appeared in stories till around 1964 (sometime before the 'New Look' retool of the Batman books). 1956 is now being considered the starting point for the Silver Age Batman as well it seems (in fact, the Silver Age Batman Omnibus has the cover from the first issue featuring Kathy Kane as its cover). So she is very definitively a Silver Age character who existed on Earth 1.

However, an Earth 2 Kathy Kane was later also established as existing retroactively, and she was around in 1955 (appearing in the same story which revealed Bruce and Selina's marriage). She also appeared later in a story where the Earth 1 Batman ended up briefly on Earth 2 and teamed up with Dick and Kathy.

I just thought its an interesting coincidence that the first major divergence in Earth 2 Batman's life, compared to the Earth 1 Batman's, was his marriage to Selina in 1955. And 1956 is now considered the start of the Silver Age/Earth 1 Batman, and the Silver Age DCU in general.

[Jon-El]

One of my earliest comics was a 1976 issue of All Star Comics that featured the Earth 2 Superman. Before that, I read a JLA & JSA team up that featured Captain Marvel & the heroes of Earth S. I loved all the various Earths. I don’t think I ever gave much thought as to what stories were Golden Age characters or Silver age. I read a lot of 60’s Superman stories because so many were reprint back then. Even though he looked older then than he did in the 70’s, that character felt like the Superman I was currently reading. He had the Fortress, all the kryptonite, Lana, the Legion, etc…. When I read a story from the 40’s or 50’s, that Superman felt different enough that I assumed that would be an Earth 2 story. I never thought about having specific markers to designate what story was on what earth.

[Jon Clark]

The Earth-One/Earth-Two thing might not have a definitive break but there are some things that make more sense that way. Weisinger's tendency to reuse stories is easier to take when you can assume the first use was Earth-2 and the later instance is Earth-1. Kal-L met Hal-Kar of Thoron while Kal-El met Lar Gand of Daxam rather than one Superman having two people assumed to be a long lost older brother. Same with the story about Superman and the IRS, the fake Inter-Planetary Olympics, and Superman spending a week trying out new identities after Clark is seen dying.