Amazing Spider-man 20 Preview

[Mister Mets]

This.

Just to remind everyone, we are on issue 21 and we still didn't know why they broke up. JMS got them back together by now.

Just a reminder that JMS' first issue was released April 11, 2001.

The reconciliation was in February 26, 2003.

Zeb Wells' first issue was released April 27, 2022, so less than a year ago.

[stillanerd]

I think people would be less annoyed if they hadn't waited so long to say what that plot actually is.

By this point it's been too long for a lot of people.

At this point it's okay to say the creative team messed this up.

Exactly! Now would fans be upset if fan actually learned "What Did Peter Do?" a year ago? Sure. But at least they would've also gotten proper content for why Peter and MJ were no longer together. Whereas now because that information was withheld for so long, it underscored how breaking up Peter and MJ just so Peter can be with the Black Cat again is really nothing more than the blatant, inorganic, and unearned writer and editorial fiat it really is.

[TinkerSpider]

Just a reminder that JMS' first issue was released April 11, 2001.

The reconciliation was in February 26, 2003.

Zeb Wells' first issue was released April 27, 2022, so less than a year ago.

He's talking number of issues.

JMS reunited them in 20 issues.

And he took care to show that MJ and Peter thought about each other, from both their POVs, and yearned to be together in the interim.

Exactly! Now would fans be upset if fan actually learned "What Did Peter Do?" a year ago? Sure. But at least they would've also gotten proper content for why Peter and MJ were no longer together. Whereas now because that information was withheld for so long, it underscored how breaking up Peter and MJ just so Peter can be with the Black Cat again is really nothing more than the blatant, inorganic, and unearned writer and editorial fiat it really is.

Quoting and emphasizing for truth. Although whether this is editorial fiat or writer's insistence is unclear.

The way the marriage was undone was awkward and unnatural. Everyone working on the books in 1987 would also tell you that the way the marriage began was awkward and unnatural, literally a publicity stunt forced on the series by the Editor in Chief. Frankly, Marvel never even wanted a marriage, they wanted a wedding. It was never about the true wills of the characters or whatever, it was about publicity.

This does not track with accounts from the people there.

Stan Lee wanted to marry the characters in his comic strip. Let us not forget the comic books were not public's only exposure to reading about the adventures of Spider-Man, and I'm very much betting that far more people were exposed to the newspaper strip than read the comic book.

Jim Shooter okayed the wedding for the comic books, and yes, it was a publicity stunt. But it did not come out of nowhere. Peter and MJ were growing increasingly closer in the ASM book, with Peter starting to think romantically about her again after she admitted she knew his secret and shared her story with him. In Peter David's Spectacular, MJ was starting to think of Peter romantically, and thoughts of marriage even crossed her mind. Jim Owsley's/Christoper Priest's Spider-Man vs. Wolverine had Peter admit the lie that MJ wasn't his girlfriend was destroyed, implying they were in love with each other but were scared to admit to themselves and each other. And Michelinie did a very good job in ASM 290-292 laying the ground for why Peter was finally ready to be done with the pretense he's not in love with MJ and not ready to move to the next stage, with a terrific, well-motivated procession showing MJ's change of heart from saying no, to telling Peter she loved him, to accepting his proposal.

Not so much hard as it is restrictive.

And it doesn't really give then much opportunity for stories either. Marriage is narrativelt restrictive on any character that's just how it is

There is only one story that you can't do with married character that you can do with a single character:

Chase after a new love relationship. That's it.

(And you could do that story but it would be a story about marital infidelity - which is a very valid story engine but perhaps not a viable one for a superhero who is supposedly about responsibility. Not that he's been very responsible lately).

You can even do a falling in love story within marriage - it's just falling back in love with your spouse. JMD did a version of this, in fact, in his first 20 issues.

But every other story? Sky's the linit.

You can even do Peter living with Vin. Peter & MJ are down on their luck, they need to either rent a room from someone or rent out one of their rooms to make ends meet, and Vin becomes their roommate. Wacky hijinks ensue.

[Kevinroc]

Should we count the Dark Web Prologue and Ending issues as well? Since they were written by Wells?

[scarletspidey]

He's talking number of issues.

JMS reunited them in 20 issues.

And he took care to show that MJ and Peter thought about each other, from both their POVs, and yearned to be together in the interim.



Quoting and emphasizing for truth. Although whether this is editorial fiat or writer's insistence is unclear.



This does not track with accounts from the people there.

Stan Lee wanted to marry the characters in his comic strip. Let us not forget the comic books were not public's only exposure to reading about the adventures of Spider-Man, and I'm very much betting that far more people were exposed to the newspaper strip than read the comic book.

Jim Shooter okayed the wedding for the comic books, and yes, it was a publicity stunt. But it did not come out of nowhere. Peter and MJ were growing increasingly closer in the ASM book, with Peter starting to think romantically about her again after she admitted she knew his secret and shared her story with him. In Peter David's Spectacular, MJ was starting to think of Peter romantically, and thoughts of marriage even crossed her mind. Jim Owsley's/Christoper Priest's Spider-Man vs. Wolverine had Peter admit the lie that MJ wasn't his girlfriend was destroyed, implying they were in love with each other but were scared to admit to themselves and each other. And Michelinie did a very good job in ASM 290-292 laying the ground for why Peter was finally ready to be done with the pretense he's not in love with MJ and not ready to move to the next stage, with a terrific, well-motivated procession showing MJ's change of heart from saying no, to telling Peter she loved him, to accepting his proposal.



There is only one story that you can't do with married character that you can do with a single character:

Chase after a new love relationship. That's it.

(And you could do that story but it would be a story about marital infidelity - which is a very valid story engine but perhaps not a viable one for a superhero who is supposedly about responsibility. Not that he's been very responsible lately).

You can even do a falling in love story within marriage - it's just falling back in love with your spouse. JMD did a version of this, in fact, in his first 20 issues.

But every other story? Sky's the linit.

You can even do Peter living with Vin. Peter & MJ are down on their luck, they need to either rent a room from someone or rent out one of their rooms to make ends meet, and Vin becomes their roommate. Wacky hijinks ensue.

yeah but how on earth would young people relate!!!





(this is sarcasm I grew up with a married spider-man, what is better than spider-man being aspirational btw?)

[Sr. Bungle]

Should we count the Dark Web Prologue and Ending issues as well? Since they were written by Wells?

I'm doing that

[scarletspidey]

Peter\MJ should be married because they want to is a warped argument to me. I mean, so did Peter and Gwen, before, y'know. It was plot that killed Gwen and put the stop to that, same as it's plot driving MJ and Peter apart.

I wish they had just killed MJ instead of OMD, and spared us from the awkwardness of how to handle it since

[Mercwmouth12]

I wish they had just killed MJ instead of OMD, and spared us from the awkwardness of how to handle it since

They can't do that anymore really and with her presence outside of comics so deeply engrained into the franchise you can't replace her

Ben on the other hand no one could care as much unless AtSV helps him back

[Kevinroc]

I wish they had just killed MJ instead of OMD, and spared us from the awkwardness of how to handle it since

They tried that once before.

The idea of Peter being a widower was even worse in their minds than Peter being divorced. (Plus, you know, death in comics is death in comics so they probably figured she wouldn't have stayed dead).

[Kevinroc]

Just a reminder that JMS' first issue was released April 11, 2001.

The reconciliation was in February 26, 2003.

Zeb Wells' first issue was released April 27, 2022, so less than a year ago.

How many issues was that?

[scarletspidey]

They tried that once before.

The idea of Peter being a widower was even worse in their minds than Peter being divorced. (Plus, you know, death in comics is death in comics so they probably figured she wouldn't have stayed dead).

oh I know I'd rather they stayed married

but I would still rather she died and Peter cried for 500 issues straight than what we have got since (caveat being I do like some of what I have read of Slott's run, but any of the stuff I have read and liked would have worked with a married Pete... in fact would have been better imo during Superior if MJ thought Peter was cheating on her with OTto's love interest, I forget her name)

[scarletspidey]

They can't do that anymore really and with her presence outside of comics so deeply engrained into the franchise you can't replace her

Ben on the other hand no one could care as much unless AtSV helps him back

nail meet head - they have a single Spider-Man right there for the stories they "can't tell with a married spider-man"

a single and a married Spider-Man... covering all bases? nah why would they want that

[Spider-Tiger]

They tried that once before.

The idea of Peter being a widower was even worse in their minds than Peter being divorced. (Plus, you know, death in comics is death in comics so they probably figured she wouldn't have stayed dead).

An amicable divorce probably would've been the best alternative. Particularly if they had pulled the trigger sooner rather than later (at least Pre-2000.) But their fear of "aging" the character just ended up further entrenching Mary Jane and the marriage.

[Starrius]

Yes, absolutely. She didn't appear in 90% of Spencer's run (all I can think of is the Sins arc w/Martin Li and being disappointed about Peter's plagiarism). But she's much easier to write around because most people don't talk to their parents every day (or it's just a quick check-in text or something, maybe a weekly dinner). I think it's fair to assume that most people spend more time with their spouse than the parent(s). But more to the point, BND de-aged her a bit and gave her things to do - FEAST, marrying Jameson - specifically to have her be part of various plots. A similar thing has yet to happen for MJ that has stuck (she worked for Stark, then didn't, she had the nightclub, she was kind of Oracle-y for the Red Goblin arc).


They do not because he's a better character for driving plot than MJ is. He's working on stories, he's been the mayor, he knows Spidey's identity and tries to help Peter out thru his news connections, he's working at various publications where he's tracking supervillain plots. But also, he can just not appear for 50 issues and it's not a big deal. Because he and Peter are not married.




I don't have a problem with MJ "just being there" but it's pretty monotonous (again, see Michelinie's last 40 issues, give or take). Her best stuff from that era was (unsurprisingly) under JMD, but that's in part because she knew Harry, too. She had a strong connection to both the hero and the villain and got to be part of the tension and the action (because Harry drew her in). Of course, JMD had her bail on Peter while he was unhealthily processing the trauma of his robot parents, so even he wasn't perfect in this regard. I don't think "the marriage will work just fine in the comics because MJ doesn't have to do anything most of the time" is a particularly winning argument, personally, but your mileage may vary.

If Mary Jane's bailing out on Peter referring to is her leaving him after he webbed himself up in a web cocoon, I don't believe that's her bailing out on him.

She went away to sort out her own family problems. She was thinking that how can she help Peter deal with his family problems if she doesn't deal with her own problems.

She had second thoughts about leaving for she didn't want to leave Peter because she thought Peter needed her, but her Aunt Anna pushed her to go see her family and go resolve things with them.

I don't think that Mary Jane was bailing out and running away from Peter.

She was trying to resolve her own family stuff, and she did.

She made up with her father.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Just a reminder that JMS' first issue was released April 11, 2001.

The reconciliation was in February 26, 2003.

Zeb Wells' first issue was released April 27, 2022, so less than a year ago.

Marvel is now publishing 2 issues a month. That context makes all the difference.