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  1. #241
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    The Claremont X-comics were as progressive as you possibly could be for the 1980s, but because they were on the cutting edge you had a lot of stuff that nowadays are completely taboo. For instance two white civilians were transformed into Native Americans by Dani's Demon Bear and it's treated like they received some horrifying injury.
    Well, there are people still blaming Betsy for desacrating a poc body with her filthy white soul, so that would still be treated as a horrifying thing, but the other way around.
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  2. #242
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    Well, there are people still blaming Betsy for desacrating a poc body with her filthy white soul, so that would still be treated as a horrifying thing, but the other way around.
    Psylocke's body and mind were twisted and warped so she could be used as a pawn by others, and yet these days people are upset because "That's yellowface!!!!" I swear I do not understand why some people go out of their way to look for things to be offended by.

  3. #243
    Extraordinary Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Similar, yes, but the degree of sex and violence was greater with Max than it is with DC Black Label. Black Label is probably closer to the Marvel Knights imprint than it is Max.
    I dunno, man.



    From DC Black Label's "Three Jokers."



    From Joker: Killer Smile.
    Last edited by CaptainEurope; 03-23-2023 at 08:07 AM.

  4. #244
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainEurope View Post
    I dunno, man.



    From DC Black Label's "Three Jokers."



    From Joker: Killer Smile.
    Head still attached and relatively intact...Black label
    Head? What head? Max

    I’ll don the mask and wear the cape
    If I am super, how can I wait?

  5. #245
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Marvel never had issues with gore, Max or not Max.
    Remember when Sentry ripped Ares in half and the only thing they censored was a character saying "****"?
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  6. #246
    Extraordinary Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Head still attached and relatively intact...Black label
    Head? What head? Max

    Mileage may vary, but to me the Punisher one is more cartoonish than the Joker with a visible hole in his head. It's quality more than quantity of tissue removed.

  7. #247
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    I wanted to start a thread about whether you could "Born Again" or "Demon in a Bottle" today, and realized that this discussion exists (I probably posted here months ago.)

    But it's an unfortunate limitation.

    It's telling that Disney never did a story about Tony Stark's alcoholism.

    Another big factor is anything to do with China. Iron Man is going to save uyghurs from concentration camps.
    Last edited by Mister Mets; 08-02-2023 at 09:06 AM.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  8. #248
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    You did, on 22nd February.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    It's a bit of a shame that the best Marvel comic (Daredevil: Born Again) would be very different today.

    I don't think Marvel would go for bold moves like the MAX line.
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  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I wanted to start a thread about whether you could "Born Again" or "Demon in a Bottle" today, and realized that this discussion exists (I probably posted here months ago.)

    But it's an unfortunate limitation.

    It's telling that Disney never did a story about Tony Stark's alcoholism.

    Another big factor is anything to do with China. Iron Man is going to save uyghurs from concentration camps.
    They sort of touched on Tony's drinking issues in the second movie. I don't think there's any concerns about it being inappropriate or whatever.

    The China thing in general, if you're still talking about movies/TV, I'm more inclined to agree. There's marketing reasons for that. Plus if we're talking about the Uyghur situation in particular, there's the politics but also I don't think a whole lot of Americans even know what's going on there.


    I'm not so sure what you feel might be controversial about "Born Again" today ( we've already seen elements show up in live action)...is it the 80's Central American war aspect?

  10. #250
    Extraordinary Member MichaelC's Avatar
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    They DID deal with Stark's alcoholism, but made it simply one minor symptom among many of his PTSD. PTSD was the core of movie Stark, PTSD from the deaths of his parents and Yinsen, and this PTSD was expressed as alcohol abuse, death-seeking martyrdom, reckless mad science experiments like Ultron and tons of armors, and a kind of political desperation where he was willing to get on his knees and give the government oral pleasure if only everyone would unite behind him building an armor around the world.

    At his core, movie Stark was someone terrified that the people he loves would die and it would be his fault. That PTSD fueled every behavior from mundane alcohol abuse to mad science experiments.

    Far from not dealing with his alcohol abuse, I thought the movies did a much better job of making it a part of a complex, nuanced mental issue. Whereas the comics tend to make it this simple thing where he "MUST...RESIST...URGE...TO...DRINK!", a problem so blandly Golden Age one can easily imagine him and Superman crawling side by side, with Superman saying, "MUST...CRAWL AWAY...FROM...KRYPTONITE!!"


  11. #251
    OUTRAGEOUS!! Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    They sort of touched on Tony's drinking issues in the second movie. I don't think there's any concerns about it being inappropriate or whatever.
    Indeed, but it was more a comical than a dramatic situation.
    "Never assign to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity or ignorance."

    "Great stories will always return to their original forms"

    "Nobody is more dangerous than he who imagines himself pure in heart; for his purity, by definition, is unassailable." James Baldwin

  12. #252
    Extraordinary Member Galerion's Avatar
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    Afaik Tonys alcoholism wasn't much played up out of respect and concern for Robert Downey Jr. and his real-life experiences with addictions.
    "This is me being reasonable"

  13. #253
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Catching up on this thread. A number of the replies supporting retcons of characters' sexual orientations are so wrong. I don't know where to begin. People making up subtext in their head canon is tiresome. I was legit not attracted to anyone until I was 15. The people defending these changes have clearly not read much of the related characters' histories. But that's it. I don't want to derail the thread.

    I think much of these aren't as bad as a lot of the decisions that happened recently. Certainly, a few of them would qualify. 6 of the 10 listed, I agree with. Trying too hard to be topical is a very easy way to make your work dated. It might seem like a good idea now, but those pop culture references are not going to hold up.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  14. #254
    OUTRAGEOUS!! Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galerion View Post
    Afaik Tonys alcoholism wasn't much played up out of respect and concern for Robert Downey Jr. and his real-life experiences with addictions.
    That kind of attittude is kind despective to the capacity of Downey Jr. as actor.
    "Never assign to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity or ignorance."

    "Great stories will always return to their original forms"

    "Nobody is more dangerous than he who imagines himself pure in heart; for his purity, by definition, is unassailable." James Baldwin

  15. #255
    Extraordinary Member Galerion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    That kind of attittude is kind despective to the capacity of Downey Jr. as actor.
    Well one of these concerned people was his own wife Susan Downey who was an executive producer on Iron Man 2. I wouldn't blame a woman for looking out for her husbands well-being. At the end of the day Tony Stark is just a fictional character while Downey Jr. is a real human being who went through some real **** and had to work hard to turn his life around. I think being upset about not seeing an accurate portrayal of "Demon in a bottle" is misplaced under these circumstances.
    "This is me being reasonable"

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