You wouldn't get away with that nowadays!

[mugiwara]

You're ok with Living Lightning being gay but not Iceman? That makes no sense since Living Lighting had a girlfriend early in his appearances and wasn't out until years later.

That's not really the same. Lightning didn't have hundred of comics featuring him attracted to women.
And even in his few apparitions after being outed, he was able to utter more than 3 sentences before reminding the readers how gay he was.

For me, Iceman had been a boring character for years. Every unimaginative writers were going for the same gimmick: "hey look how strong he is when he unleashes his full potential, I bet the other writers before me didn't think about that!". He just traded one gimmick for another, but he is still boring. Except he now has hundreds of fans suddenly popping out of the wood, either to love him for being gay, or to complain that he has been ruined forever.

[bat22]

You're ok with Living Lightning being gay but not Iceman? That makes no sense since Living Lighting had a girlfriend early in his appearances and wasn't out until years later.

Frankly, I think Living Lightning works just for being a non-derivative, non-white, non-black minority hero. The Pantheon's Hector is the image I use for a pre-existing and underutilized gay hero.

[Force de Phenix]

That's not really the same. Lightning didn't have hundred of comics featuring him attracted to women.
And even in his few apparitions after being outed, he was able to utter more than 3 sentences before reminding the readers how gay he was.

For me, Iceman had been a boring character for years. Every unimaginative writers were going for the same gimmick: "hey look how strong he is when he unleashes his full potential, I bet the other writers before me didn't think about that!". He just traded one gimmick for another, but he is still boring. Except he now has hundreds of fans suddenly popping out of the wood, either to love him for being gay, or to complain that he has been ruined forever.

The amount of homophobic comments from X-Men fans when they made Iceman gay is another example of how that metaphor was a façade and that people actually just like the X-Men for their powers, cool costumes, and merchandise.

[postfutureshock]

Iceman is more popular than he ever has been and is a much more interesting character now.

It's disappointing to see derogatory comments on this forum such as the one calling him a "flaming" stereotype. Sina Grace is gay and wrote a very honest portrayal of a gay man coming out in his late 20s/30s. Tons of readers see themselves in Bobby.

It's one thing to not like the character anymore, but don't act like your opinion is universal.

[MichaelC]

The amount of homophobic comments from X-Men fans when they made Iceman gay is another example of how that metaphor was a façade and that people actually just like the X-Men for their powers, cool costumes, and merchandise.

I think the broad metaphor of being oppressed by The Man is also part of the appeal, but one has to understand that EVERYONE feels oppressed by The Man. John Wilkes Booth said "sic semper tyrannis" with a complete lack of conscious irony, because he genuinely felt that destroying his right to own human beings was a tyrannical act. The guys storming the capital in Trump's name genuinely felt that they were overturning oppression. The secret truth of the X-Men is that many of the guys buying into its oppression metaphor aren't doing so for progressive reasons.

[davetvs]

The amount of homophobic comments from X-Men fans when they made Iceman gay is another example of how that metaphor was a façade and that people actually just like the X-Men for their powers, cool costumes, and merchandise.

Speak for who you're speaking for. The X-Men are my favorite franchise in pop culture largely because they made me feel seen and respected as a gay black kid growing up in a racist, homophobic country while still trying to be a good person.

[bat22]

The amount of homophobic comments from X-Men fans when they made Iceman gay is another example of how that metaphor was a façade and that people actually just like the X-Men for their powers, cool costumes, and merchandise.

That metaphor was what you and like-minded readers attributed to the X-Men. For other readers like myself, beyond their cool costumes and powers, the X-Men are a metaphor for racial tensions, race wars, and ethnic cleansing.

If you actually go over the criticism, you'll find that most readers' issue with Iceman turning gay is less about homophobia than disregarding history, clumsy writing, and mischaracterization. The same garbage that befell "bisexual" Tim Drake in DC.

[davetvs]

Yeah, because people never come out of the closet in their 20s after having heterosexual relationships previously. Oh wait.

[skyvolt2000]

Yeah, because people never come out of the closet in their 20s after having heterosexual relationships previously. Oh wait.

Of course....

But guys like Tim and Bobby are NOT suppose to do that. Stuff like that is for Prodigy or someone that nobody wants use outside of Marvel Pride books.

I guess folks forget Prodigy was in a relationship with Surge. Oh I forgot he's not the right skin tone for there to be rage.

And what about Poison Ivy and Harley weren't they attracted to men until they found each other?

Or Richie on Static Shock-McDuffie said he was gay but the show couldn't come out and say that. The guy he was based on was gay (Thank you Ivan Valdez Jr).

[marhawkman]

We do not live in a world where progressive gestures are unanimously celebrated. In fact, such gestures are met with a fair amount of resistence.

Yes, a FAIR(IE reasonable) amount of resistance. A lot of people see progressivism as an intellectually dishonest doctrine and thus not something worthy of serious consideration. Why? well, Progressivism is a state of mind where you can't accept the status quo... even if you like it.

Thus any time "progressive" gestures are made, people question the motives of whoever made the gesture, often rightfully so.

[ed2962]

Yes, a FAIR(IE reasonable) amount of resistance. A lot of people see progressivism as an intellectually dishonest doctrine and thus not something worthy of serious consideration. Why? well, Progressivism is a state of mind where you can't accept the status quo... even if you like it.

Thus any time "progressive" gestures are made, people question the motives of whoever made the gesture, often rightfully so.

Ehh...I don't think that's anyone's (either left wing or right wing) definition of progressive....

[The Negative Zone]

Yeah, because people never come out of the closet in their 20s after having heterosexual relationships previously. Oh wait.

The problem is with fiction there has to be a certain degree of foreshadowing and intended hints for the idea to be believable. Not everything applicable to real life is applicable to fiction.

Yes, I understand many readers head canoned or other writers implied Bobby to be gay. It isn't a black-and-white issue at least.

[Agent Z]

Of course....

But guys like Tim and Bobby are NOT suppose to do that. Stuff like that is for Prodigy or someone that nobody wants use outside of Marvel Pride books.

I guess folks forget Prodigy was in a relationship with Surge. Oh I forgot he's not the right skin tone for there to be rage.

And what about Poison Ivy and Harley weren't they attracted to men until they found each other?

Or Richie on Static Shock-McDuffie said he was gay but the show couldn't come out and say that. The guy he was based on was gay (Thank you Ivan Valdez Jr).

Ivy and Harley's relationship got backlash as well.

[mugiwara]

Of course....

But guys like Tim and Bobby are NOT suppose to do that. Stuff like that is for Prodigy or someone that nobody wants use outside of Marvel Pride books.

I guess folks forget Prodigy was in a relationship with Surge. Oh I forgot he's not the right skin tone for there to be rage.

If it's about skin tone, then where was the outrage for D-Man? Mercury? Speed? Heck, even Hercules got only minor outrage.

Maybe it's something else way more important than skin color in comics: the popularity of a character and how long they have been around.

Prodigy got almost no outrage* because unfortunately, there are not many people who care about him and he is also no buzz material. See many articles talking about "major Marvel character Prodigy revealed as bisexual"? I don't think so. And no articles means that the fake fans won't even be aware of it and won't come pretending they always loved the character and that he is ruined for them.
* almost not outrage, but I clearly remember homophobic comments about how making him bi was an attack against black masculinity

[davetvs]

The problem is with fiction there has to be a certain degree of foreshadowing and intended hints for the idea to be believable. Not everything applicable to real life is applicable to fiction.

Yes, I understand many readers head canoned or other writers implied Bobby to be gay. It isn't a black-and-white issue at least.

Bobby had been hinted at for years. How much foreshadowing is expected when writers like Claremont have explicitly come out and said Marvel would not let him write characters like Mystique and Destiny as obviously gay? Everyone keeps trying to move the goalposts instead of just saying "I have a problem with this character coming out of the closet because I would prefer they be straight, like 95% of the other characters." Say it with your chest.