When do you expect One More Day will be undone?

[CaptainUniverse]

Yep...I'm a 90's fan too. And somehow, I doubt that many will view the current era as a classic and long for the days of Paul what's-his- name.

I freaking love the 90's. Sipping on your Capri Suns while listening to Ace of Base on the radio and reading the latest chapter of the never-ending Clone Saga while you wait for Star Trek: Voyager and DS9 to come on! Yep, those were the days. Ahh...

[Blunt Guy]

Yep...I'm a 90's fan too. And somehow, I doubt that many will view the current era as a classic and long for the days of Paul what's-his- name.

Yes, the Clone Saga is commonly listed as a great era of Spider-Man comics.

[exile001]

Yes, the Clone Saga is commonly listed as a great era of Spider-Man comics.

If it is, that's certainly a nostalgia thing (and likely a rejection of the last decade+) than sentiment at the time. By the end it was not loved by most at the time.

[PCN24454]

If it is, that's certainly a nostalgia thing (and likely a rejection of the last decade+) than sentiment at the time. By the end it was not loved by most at the time.

People more like to talk about how things were better back then than they do actually reading them. That’s why I’m skeptical about how important the marriage is. There was no golden era to begin with.

[Vortex85]

People more like to talk about how things were better back then than they do actually reading them. That’s why I’m skeptical about how important the marriage is. There was no golden era to begin with.

So I can only speak for myself here, but the clone saga had me really invested in Peter and MJ finding their happy ever after. This wasnt long after I started reading Spider-Man but I remember my reaction to her pregnancy with the biggest dumb smile on my face. I must have read that issue at least 15 times as a kid seeing Peter jump off the walls and MJ smiling proudly. Later, When they lost the baby I dropped the book for a bit and only partially picked up some copies in post-clone saga. It very clearly meant a lot to me back then while reading around 10-11 years old.

I wasn’t collecting during the relaunch and MJs “death” kept me from it when I looked on the internet about it. I started again in early JMS run and very quickly I was super stressed with them getting back together and when they did it felt like the best moment in comics for me at that point. After that I NEVER took the marriage for granted and enjoyed every page with them together. I actually reflected on it back then during reading and realized how important it was to me. I was in college at this time and never missed an issue. Thats why I had no hesitation in dropping with OMD. It literally killed Spider-Man for me for 6 years until I even started to get curious about the character again.

Since I have gotten older and read through the marriage from the beginning it has only enhanced my love for it. I think its the best marriage of all time and its a shame its not adapted outside the comics.

[exile001]

People more like to talk about how things were better back then than they do actually reading them. That’s why I’m skeptical about how important the marriage is. There was no golden era to begin with.

One of the biggest problems conceptually the marriage faces is that David Michelinie is about the only long term ASM writer who got a chance to use it. Almost every run since was either editorial trying to erase it or re-establishing it from the last attempt to erase it.

They were married in 1987. The Clone/Ben sagas were 1994-1996. We then re-established Peter, and had another relaunch from 1999 to 2001ish, where MJ left Peter (because he was Spider-Man again) then her plane exploded, etc. Even in JMS' run MJ left to pursue her career before they reunited.

It's ridiculous that such huge chunks of the marriage's time in existence was missing due to one form of meddling or another. Almost like it barely got a chance.

I would say I'm a fan, because I am definitely a fan of Pete and MJ together. I think that works.

However, I'm not fixated on the marriage as it doesn't really matter to the stories if they were actually married or just together. The good marriage-era stories would have largely been the same whether they are married or not, and we'd probably have avoided a lot of editorial enforced trash trying to remove the marriage if they hadn't been.

Also, here's the real grenade in the room; the actual wedding issue (and most of the build up) is terrible.

[Vortex85]

One of the biggest problems conceptually the marriage faces is that David Michelinie is about the only long term ASM writer who got a chance to use it. Almost every run since was either editorial trying to erase it or re-establishing it from the last attempt to erase it.

They were married in 1987. The Clone/Ben sagas were 1994-1996. We then re-established Peter, and had another relaunch from 1999 to 2001ish, where MJ left Peter (because he was Spider-Man again) then her plane exploded, etc. Even in JMS' run MJ left to pursue her career before they reunited.

It's ridiculous that such huge chunks of the marriage's time in existence was missing due to one form of meddling or another. Almost like it barely got a chance.

I would say I'm a fan, because I am definitely a fan of Pete and MJ together. I think that works.

However, I'm not fixated on the marriage as it doesn't really matter to the stories if they were actually married or just together. The good marriage-era stories would have largely been the same whether they are married or not, and we'd probably have avoided a lot of editorial enforced trash trying to remove the marriage if they hadn't been.

Also, here's the real grenade in the room; the actual wedding issue (and most of the build up) is terrible.

I disagree about the lead up to it. I love ASM 290-292. Those are some of my favorite issues in ASM that have a real MJ story. The wedding itself was lackluster, but the honeymoon issue I found very fun after it. So overall I'd give those issues an A-. I bought the wedding gallery marvel recently released featuring those stories to support it.

As to your point on the marriage "barely had a chance", I mean we had Conway and DeMatteis writing Spec and Web too and also (1990) Spider-Man came in too for a 4th title. There were a lot of issues and there was a lot of marriage material before they ever tried to break them up. Well over 300 issue of Spider-Man between the wedding and the clone saga if I am correct between all the titles? I mean, they had a lot of stories and good ones too during that time. You can't say 300 issues of marriage before they tried to end it through Ben Reilly taking over is only a little bit. I know, I've gone through them and posted a portion of it on my marriage thread. It really had a big time to shine in the late 80s / early 90s and it did.

Unfortunately, while the clone saga tried to get rid of it, they actually added even more investment in the marriage through the baby and setting up Peter and MJ to have a happily ever after. It felt like they were going to finally have a chance to have long lasting happiness after years of chaotic times and a rollercoaster of events and drama in their marriage.

I understand everyone starts at a different time, has different issues that affect them, and Spider-Man means a little different to each person depending on their experiences. But from my experience growing up with the character, the marriage WAS Spider-Man to me. That's what it was all about at the end of the day, when Peter could take off his suit and come home to MJ, that's what made his life worth living, it gave him purpose and meaning. And the actual writing supports this. If you read the thought bubbles and narration, MJ was Peter's life, their marriage meant everything to him. That's the Spider-Man I knew and loved. While I did go back and read classic issues on CD or in reprints, I never longed for a time to go back to his single days or how it "used to be" before the marriage. I just had no interest because I knew how important the marriage was to Peter and MJ, and I would never want him to lose that or for me to not be able to read about it.

[Hulkout42]

So you're saying the current run isn't selling well and will be going in a different direction. Cool! That's good to know bro

The thing is that the new direction will latch on to elements of the past one to at least maintain some continuity and we don't know who is next up to bat or what their plan is going to be or if their ideas will even be ok'd by editorial so really the odds of it being good is a coin toss. Will it be different yes but will it be good? Who knows?

[exile001]

As to your point on the marriage "barely had a chance", I mean we had Conway and DeMatteis writing Spec and Web too and also (1990) Spider-Man came in too for a 4th title. There were a lot of issues and there was a lot of marriage material before they ever tried to break them up. Well over 300 issue of Spider-Man between the wedding and the clone saga if I am correct between all the titles? I mean, they had a lot of stories and good ones too during that time. You can't say 300 issues of marriage before they tried to end it through Ben Reilly taking over is only a little bit. I know, I've gone through them and posted a portion of it on my marriage thread. It really had a big time to shine in the late 80s / early 90s and it did.

Unfortunately, while the clone saga tried to get rid of it, they actually added even more investment in the marriage through the baby and setting up Peter and MJ to have a happily ever after. It felt like they were going to finally have a chance to have long lasting happiness after years of chaotic times and a rollercoaster of events and drama in their marriage.

I don't disagree, as much as I'm playing Devil's Advocate a bit. There was a lot of satellite book material (which is always secondary to ASM), but those books also had the same problem with the break up attempts. Think how much more material we could have had!

I still think having 5+ of the 20 married years dedicated to breakups, fake Peters (I am so sorry, Ben. I love you!), plane explosions and stalkers really detracts from what we could have had if editors had just left them alone (and married). I can't think of another instance of something like this happening in comics, where editorial spends 15+ years changing/attacking their own product over one ideology (that readers disagreed with, too).

Even Dan "I hate the Super-marriage" Didio, after being talking out of it several times, only actually split Clark and Lois once with the New 52 reboot (which, of course, he had to go back on within 5 years).

From my perspective, it doesn't help that the Next Chapter and BND eras are my absolute least favourite Spidey eras and both are direct results of Spider-Man editorial trying (and failing) to go "back to basics" and forcibly splitting Pete/MJ.

[Vortex85]

I don't disagree, as much as I'm playing Devil's Advocate a bit. There was a lot of satellite book material (which is always secondary to ASM), but those books also had the same problem with the break up attempts. Think how much more material we could have had!

I still think having 5+ of the 20 married years dedicated to breakups, fake Peters (I am so sorry, Ben. I love you!), plane explosions and stalkers really detracts from what we could have had if editors had just left them alone (and married). I can't think of another instance of something like this happening in comics.

Even Dan "I hate the Super-marriage" Didio, after being talking out of it several times, only actually split Clark and Lois once with the New 52 reboot (which, of course, he had to go back on within 5 years).

From my perspective, it doesn't help that the Next Chapter and BND eras are my absolute least favourite Spidey eras and both are direct results of Spider-Man editorial trying (and failing) to go "back to basics" and forcibly splitting Pete/MJ.

Despte the other books being satellites, some of the best of the marriage is featured in them as opposed to ASM. So it's unfortunate to overlook them. I think people often underestimate the amount of marriage content there has been in Spider-Man comics because they don't take those into account. I haven't done the math, but I"m thinking we may have 600 - 700 or so Spider-Man comics with Peter and MJ married in 616...! Compare that to only 28 issues in high school and you see how pathetic it is that high school is adapted over the marriage on film!

As for breakups...no doubt the worst attempt was killing MJ off in a plane crash, but that was 1.5 years of the marriage. The breakup that followed led to a very strong arc in JMS so there was some good to it. Even as a pro-marriage fan I see the need for marital problems and Peter/MJ to have periods of falling out from each other every once in a while.... but you need different reason for it so it's not always their fault.

So since the marriage went away though, the problem is they have spent the vast majority of time falling apart... even when they aren't in a relationship! It's amazing how Dan Slott managed to have a few breakups with Peter and MJ and never actually had them together! Talk about annoying!

We as fans really need a long term romance between the two, that lasts for several runs in a row. If we can't have the marriage back, we could at least have them prove why they are the "best couple in comics" again, through what's on page, instead of simply stating it in the solicits.

Also, I agree, the "next chapter" and BND are super weak for me as well, with the latter being nearly unreadable and I find it the most boring era of Spider-Man history when I treid to go back and read it several times.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Despte the other books being satellites, some of the best of the marriage is featured in them as opposed to ASM. So it's unfortunate to overlook them. I think people often underestimate the amount of marriage content there has been in Spider-Man comics because they don't take those into account. I haven't done the math, but I"m thinking we may have 600 - 700 or so Spider-Man comics with Peter and MJ married in 616...! Compare that to only 28 issues in high school and you see how pathetic it is that high school is adapted over the marriage on film!

I think Editorial thinks that stuff that came later doesn't count (i.e. marriage). I mean, the marriage was technically around for longer than Gwen's existence or Peter's high school years, but they see it as a "deviation" from the beginning foundation of Spidey (and so therefore it doesn't count).

The biggest problem with that argument is that there are tons of things that came later that are now important/valid to Spidey. Uncle Ben wasn't associated with WGPCGR until the mid 1980's. Venom only showed up after the marriage. Same with Kraven's Last Hunt (a marriage story too lol). The list goes on.

And what about with other IP's? Ra's Al Ghul and Arkham didn't show up in Batman comics until the 1970's. They're both considered "essential" now. As is Damian Wayne, who only debuted this century and will be in the next Batman film (or in the one after The Batman Part II, depending on which comes out first).

[exile001]

...Compare that to only 28 issues in high school and you see how pathetic it is that high school is adapted over the marriage on film!

This really should be used like the death of Krypton or the murder of the Waynes in film, but Marvel just keep focusing on this point that, while important, is essentially a footnote in the volume of Spider-Man comics they've published. You'd think they'd want to go with, y'know, the version they can then sell in the comics!!!

I know there's a gulf between the money made in comics and movies but it's insane that films aren't used to also try to sell more comics. That's just a basic win-win for Disney, who own both.

[Vortex85]

This really should be used like the death of Krypton or the murder of the Waynes in film, but Marvel just keep focusing on this point that, while important, is essentially a footnote in the volume of Spider-Man comics they've published. You'd think they'd want to go with, y'know, the version they can then sell in the comics!!!

I know there's a gulf between the money made in comics and movies but it's insane that films aren't used to also try to sell more comics. That's just a basic win-win for Disney, who own both.

True, I've always likened telling stories about Spider-Man only in high school to like trying to tell the Lord of the Rings but never leaving the Shire.

[marhawkman]

So I can only speak for myself here, but the clone saga had me really invested in Peter and MJ finding their happy ever after. This wasnt long after I started reading Spider-Man but I remember my reaction to her pregnancy with the biggest dumb smile on my face. I must have read that issue at least 15 times as a kid seeing Peter jump off the walls and MJ smiling proudly. Later, When they lost the baby I dropped the book for a bit and only partially picked up some copies in post-clone saga. It very clearly meant a lot to me back then while reading around 10-11 years old.

I wasn’t collecting during the relaunch and MJs “death” kept me from it when I looked on the internet about it. I started again in early JMS run and very quickly I was super stressed with them getting back together and when they did it felt like the best moment in comics for me at that point. After that I NEVER took the marriage for granted and enjoyed every page with them together. I actually reflected on it back then during reading and realized how important it was to me. I was in college at this time and never missed an issue. Thats why I had no hesitation in dropping with OMD. It literally killed Spider-Man for me for 6 years until I even started to get curious about the character again.

Since I have gotten older and read through the marriage from the beginning it has only enhanced my love for it. I think its the best marriage of all time and its a shame its not adapted outside the comics.

Yeah, reading one of the comics where Ben Reilly has to fight Carolyn Trainer is exhilarating. Lady Octopus is not some rando who likes tentacles she's Otto's PUPIL who wants revenge on those who hurt Otto! and oh look, there's a Scarlet Spider in the path of her revenge!

The weirdest part? Reading the story.... I kinda wanted to see Ben FAIL! Well fail at stopping her from reviving Otto. In general I didn't want to see her win... but.... there's something about her enthusiasm and demeanor that made her... not a rando crazy person, but a driven, hard-working woman who genuinely cared about her goals, and was willing to do almost anything to see them achieved. Yes, she's a super-villain, but.... there are several ways in which she's actually a positive figure.

Really, REALLY bummed me out to see later comics completely forget she existed.

True, I've always likened telling stories about Spider-Man only in high school to like trying to tell the Lord of the Rings but never leaving the Shire.

This is a great analogy, sure some people could try to argue that this is the best part... well... I think the best part was when Bilbo was hanging out with Smaug. Smaug had great dialog.

[Lee]

True, I've always likened telling stories about Spider-Man only in high school to like trying to tell the Lord of the Rings but never leaving the Shire.

That's a weak analogy. The Lord of the Rings was designed as a singular story, with a beginning, middle and end. Spider-Man was designed as a series of stories.

In The Lord of the Rings, the action doesn't begin until Frodo leaves the Shire. In Spider-Man, Peter has dozens of adventures as a high school student.