When do you expect One More Day will be undone?

[TinkerSpider]

They're not going to make ASM 1000 a hard reboot. A big "finale" to a new #1 perhaps.

Regardless, I've been saying that they should just hard reboot Amazing Spider-man for years now. Not a half-assed reboot like BND. Why bother with a sprawling continuity if the continuity is constantly ignored and/or mucked up?

They should have gone with JMS’s original pitch for OMD and put everyone back in college, hanging out at the Coffee Bean. In the long run, that would have done far less damage to the characters and that’s the status quo - the fictional Archie Andrews status that never really existed in the books - they truly want, anyway.

He's saying that whomever chooses to undo OMD must buy into the logic that marriage is bad for the book's longevity. And has therefore decided that longevity is no longer a concern when reinstating the marriage.

When in reality, those who decide to undo OMD and reinstate the marrige might just disagree with that logic in the first place. Not all creatives share the same opinions.

Precisely. The idea that the marriage is bad for longevity is a canard since the book didn’t die during the marriage. It’s merely someone’s opinion and that someone just happened to be in a position of power to make their opinion an edict.

It’s also oddly insulting to Stan Lee and Jim Shooter and can be read as assuming they were not concerned with the character’s longevity and appeal to new readers, and were actively out to destroy Spider-Man’s value as a serial character by okaying the marriage and putting it in place. When they were just as concerned yet thought the marriage would be additive and not subtractive, and since they had the power at the time, the marriage was written into the books.

[exile001]

It's really not healthy to be this obsessed with a 15 year old editorial decision. It's so sad at this point.

I hated it as much as anyone, but just face the reality that it isn't going to change and hope that the next writer (and hopefully editor) see the value of Peter and MJ together.

Sorry if that sound harsh but I'm sick to death of this coming up on every single thread here.

Edit: I should add I'm a DC fan. A Superman fan. Stuff like OMD/BND happens about once a decade.

[Morgoth]

Theoretically, this may become possible when the generation of writers and editors completely changes, and with it, the views on the character in Marvel may also change. To some extent, this is happening with DC after the mass layoffs, though very slowly.
In the near future? Absolutely not.

[FFJamie94]

It's really not healthy to be this obsessed with a 15 year old editorial decision. It's so sad at this point.

I hated it as much as anyone, but just face the reality that it isn't going to change and hope that the next writer (and hopefully editor) see the value of Peter and MJ together.

Sorry if that sound harsh but I'm sick to death of this coming up on every single thread here.

Edit: I should add I'm a DC fan. A Superman fan. Stuff like OMD/BND happens about once a decade.

Yeah, it's become a bit of a thing now that any discussion of Spider-Man gets hijacked by the "Marriage".

I think the issue comes from how much the fans and writers want to undo it, but editorial is sticking to their guns. I'm not even sure if it's a Lowe thing. He wasn't the one to undo it and it's People above him who are the ones who don't want it undone. It must suck being the Amazing Spider-Man writer/Editor because it's effectively a dead series.
You really can't progress too far because Management come calling and you can't stay in the same lane because it's boring and People want something different. It's telling when the best Spider-Man books coming out don't involve Spider-Man.
Honestly, the issue with the Marriage is bigger than the Marriage, it's just that's an easy pin point to talk about.
The issue is with the very nature of the Spider-Man itself as a comic. It's too big to fail, but also too big to truly succeed.
And it's not something that will change with a new editor or EiC, it's something that will need to change from the Management, and I doubt anyone in any form of management will ever give a shit about the Marriage in the comics. They only want what sells, and to them, the synergy between Movies and Comics is what sells. God forbid someone walks into a Comic Shop, picking up Amazing Spider-Man #20 expecting a comic about a teenager in High School struggling to balance life with being Spider-Man, dating his mixed race girl friend MJ and hanging out with his Asian friend Ned and instead get a Man in his 30's talking about a redhead named Mary-Jane while kissing a Pale Woman with white hair in a Cat Costume. I'm sure someone at Disney must hate that.
It sounds terrible, but we're kind of lucky to get that. Things could be so much worse, and I'm not trying to say what we have is good, but at least we can get something original.

I fell out of hatred with OMD with Superior anyway, to me, that was the comic that told me brought me back in love with the Character. It's a story that ends with why Peter is Spider-Man and why he can only be "The Amazing Spider-Man" (yeah Miles exists, and his comics are better than Peter's at the moment, but just imagine he doesn't exist for a second). For me, it's a story that truly mended OMD as a comic that happened, and it sucks, but it happened.

Folks forget that Amazing kind of sucked pre-omd too. The JMS era was an exception, but it all started to go downhill with the Clone Saga. Now I'm not trying to say we didn't get good stories or good periods of Spider-Man books in that time, but for the most part, ASM was already a pretty poor quality book.

And going back to Lowe thing for example. I'm pretty sure he would have stopped Spencer sooner than he did during his run, it seems like they were going to at least address OMD, but it didn't and I'm fairly sure someone in management pulled the strings there.
I don't think he is an excellent editor, but he sure isn't to blame for not undoing the Marriage.

[TinkerSpider]

It's really not healthy to be this obsessed with a 15 year old editorial decision. It's so sad at this point.

I hated it as much as anyone, but just face the reality that it isn't going to change and hope that the next writer (and hopefully editor) see the value of Peter and MJ together.

Sorry if that sound harsh but I'm sick to death of this coming up on every single thread here.

But in this case it’s the literal title of the thread?

Edit: I should add I'm a DC fan. A Superman fan. Stuff like OMD/BND happens about once a decade.

DC reboots their entire universe.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

They only want what sells, and to them, the synergy between Movies and Comics is what sells.

Even then, Peter x MJ is more dominant outside the comics now more than ever. ITSV, Insomniac, and MCU all put huge emphasis on MJ (more than even the Raimi films did), with NWH in particular going out of its way to canonize Zendaya as the MCU MJ and to portray MJ as a constant throughout the multiverse. The same goes for ITSV and ATSV.

And that's just the relationship part. As far as Peter himself goes, Insomniac and Lord & Miller's Peter are fully grown adults in their mid 20's or older. Peter B. is married while Insomniac Peter is living with MJ in Aunt May's old house and considering a teaching job like in the JMS run. MCU Peter is still a teen in college, sure, but even he will get there eventually... and probably sooner than we think given that Tom and Zendaya are both in their mid 20's.

So even if we go by brand synergy, the comics look very off-brand right now.

Folks forget that Amazing kind of sucked pre-omd too. The JMS era was an exception, but it all started to go downhill with the Clone Saga. Now I'm not trying to say we didn't get good stories or good periods of Spider-Man books in that time, but for the most part, ASM was already a pretty poor quality book.

And going back to Lowe thing for example. I'm pretty sure he would have stopped Spencer sooner than he did during his run, it seems like they were going to at least address OMD, but it didn't and I'm fairly sure someone in management pulled the strings there.
I don't think he is an excellent editor, but he sure isn't to blame for not undoing the Marriage.

Sins Past and The Other notwithstanding, I think 2000-2007 was a great time for Spider-Man comics. We had the JMS run, the Paul Jenkins run, Marvel Knights, Blue, To Have and To Hold, Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, and Ultimate. Most of those were in 616 and had a married Spider-Man.

The comics in the 90's only started sucking in 1994 with the Clone Saga. The early 90's were still solid, including JMD's run. And the reason the Clone Saga and Byrne reboot sucked is because they tried to regress Spider-Man, which shows that regression and stagnation were the problem.

Also, I agree that Lowe is probably not the guy who is responsible for OMD still being in place.

[Daibhidh]

It's really not healthy to be this obsessed with a 15 year old editorial decision.

I think Marvel Unlimited is a game changer here. Everything feels much more contemporary than it used to. I read To Have and to Hold and the wedding issues and the JMS run for the first time in the last couple of years.

Also, I think the 00s don't seem to have dated in quite the way that even the nineties have. Whether that says good things about the comics industry is another question: one could argue that the comics industry has got stuck. (I think it would be unfair: the best 80s comics don't feel to me dated either.)

[Lee]

Folks forget that Amazing kind of sucked pre-omd too. The JMS era was an exception, but it all started to go downhill with the Clone Saga. Now I'm not trying to say we didn't get good stories or good periods of Spider-Man books in that time, but for the most part, ASM was already a pretty poor quality book.

It wasn't so great immediately pre-Clone Saga either. The whole 1990s was a rough patch for Amazing Spider-Man. Often okay, but rarely great or particularly memorable.

[Spider-Tiger]

DC reboots their entire universe.

Exactly. If you want people to stop caring about OMD then just get rid of the continuity in which it exists. We literally just had a run that referenced that story.

You want young Spidey... better yet a teen Spidey that can date whomever and do whatever? Just start fresh and rebuild the characters from the ground up. Give the OG Peter and Mary Jane a decent conclusion and then shuffle off the original Spider-man cast to another world. (If another writer is interested in using those characters, they can always bring them back and write new stories with those versions.)

It would be a hella controversial move to make (but hey as they say "controversy sells.")

Maybe they're afraid that with a hard reboot readers would become too apathetic. The stories themselves would have to be really good to build, foster, and maintain an audience. They couldn't rest on the laurels of stories from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, and couldn't resort as easily to cheap gimmicks like ship teasing.

At this point, it seems like they're clinging to Spidey being stuck forever in the early 80s (or whatever their idea of the early 80s was.) As unsustainable as some claim the marriage status quo is for longevity, this approach of keeping the character frozen within a specific time period and contorting continuity into nonsense to make it work can't be better.

[Vegeta]

I'm not really hanging my hat on it being undone in #1000, most likely they'll just introduce a new character or something (Alpha Jr. perhaps). To be honest, I've long made my peace with it anyways.

Maybe if the MCU version (Holland and Zendaya) gets hitched in the films they might shamelessly try to piggyback off that so-called synergy that supposedly exists between the movie audiences and comics.

I don't think the comics division of Marvel will even exist in 20 years. At some point a bean counter will show the execs how much money they could save by eliminating it. Some smaller company might start publishing Spidey books, but since the licenses will likely be passed around through the years I doubt they will maintain any continuity between publishers. (Probably several reboots starting at the beginning.)

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I think Marvel Unlimited is a game changer here. Everything feels much more contemporary than it used to. I read To Have and to Hold and the wedding issues and the JMS run for the first time in the last couple of years.

Also, I think the 00s don't seem to have dated in quite the way that even the nineties have. Whether that says good things about the comics industry is another question: one could argue that the comics industry has got stuck. (I think it would be unfair: the best 80s comics don't feel to me dated either.)

This.

I too read the JMS run and To Have And To Hold in recent years. It's actually astonishing how conservative OMD read to a Millennial in 2019 - I couldn't wrap my head around why Mephisto would care about a secular human-made institution like marriage, or why it's a given that Peter and MJ never getting married means they broke up and never had kids. Then I realized it's because the writers were Boomers and just expected me to assume that marriage is inherently divine (therefore a demonic being would care about it) and that couples who don't get married can't function long-term or have kids.

And the 2000's stuff really did age well. The art is still very modern. The dialogue is modern. There are cell phones and computers. The social commentary from JMS and Civil War is still all relevant today (school shooters, restrictions on freedom by government, etc.). The same goes for Bendis' Ultimate and The Spectacular Spider-Man show. They haven't aged a day.

I think older fans have this idea that modern comics from 10-30 years ago will age the same way Silver Age comics aged. But that's not necessarily the case.

[Webhead]

I don't think the comics division of Marvel will even exist in 20 years. At some point a bean counter will show the execs how much money they could save by eliminating it. Some smaller company might start publishing Spidey books, but since the licenses will likely be passed around through the years I doubt they will maintain any continuity between publishers. (Probably several reboots starting at the beginning.)

Less strict corporate policies might mean less constraints on storytelling, at least.

[Spider-Tiger]

This.

I too read the JMS run and To Have And To Hold in recent years. It's actually astonishing how conservative OMD read to a Millennial in 2019 - I couldn't wrap my head around why Mephisto would care about a secular human-made institution like marriage, or why it's a given that Peter and MJ never getting married means they broke up and never had kids. Then I realized it's because the writers were Boomers and just expected me to assume that marriage is inherently divine (therefore a demonic being would care about it) and that couples who don't get married can't function long-term or have kids.

And the 2000's stuff really did age well. The art is still very modern. The dialogue is modern. There are cell phones and computers. The social commentary from JMS and Civil War is still all relevant today (school shooters, restrictions on freedom by government, etc.). The same goes for Bendis' Ultimate and The Spectacular Spider-Man show. They haven't aged a day.

I think older fans have this idea that modern comics from 10-30 years ago will age the same way Silver Age comics aged. But that's not necessarily the case.

The JMS run, from what I've seen, is a really popular starting point for new readers along with ultimate. I agree that both hold up incredibly well.

The early 2000s is really the period when comics start to feel more "contemporary" in terms of dialogue, art direction, and pacing. The general structure and style of mainstream comics haven't innovated as much since.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

The JMS run, from what I've seen, is a really popular starting point for new readers along with ultimate. I agree that both hold up incredibly well.

The early 2000s is really the period when comics start to feel more "contemporary" in terms of dialogue, art direction, and pacing. The general structure and style of mainstream comics haven't innovated as much since.

I love how 15 years after OMD, Bendis and JMS are still the most influential Spider-Man writers of the 21st century.

It feels like the 2000's were a "new dawn" for superhero comics and movies, and everything since then has just been building off of that. Both in 616 and MCU. It doesn't feel exclusive to just Spider-Man.

It also makes Wells' BND 2.0 more out-of-touch than the first BND. The zeitgeist right now is explicitly about continuity and legacy.

[Spider-Tiger]

I love how 15 years after OMD, Bendis and JMS are still the most influential Spider-Man writers of the 21st century.

It feels like the 2000's were a "new dawn" for superhero comics and movies, and everything since then has just been building off of that. Both in 616 and MCU. It doesn't feel exclusive to just Spider-Man.

It also makes Wells' BND 2.0 more out-of-touch than the first BND. The zeitgeist right now is explicitly about continuity and legacy.

Quesada for all his faults was actually pretty good at pushing the envelope and getting some unique talent on big titles to reinvigorate them. (The problem arose when he got too heavy handed with his creative direction IMO.)

You can't really 'innovate' these books when you have the same group of writers and artists cycling around for so long.