Tim Drake: Robin #6 Preview

[Drako]

Yeah, I'd say Tim wasn't marginalized in the New 52, so much as confusingly relegated to only being one of Lobdell's toys in the Young Justice line that DC crashed and burned partially because they wanted guys like Lobdell to run it because they were pliable yes-men to arbitrary whims and decrees.

I wouldn't have been shocked if other Bat-writers tended to shy away from him because they recognized that Lobdell was writing a "Tim Drake" they couldn't recognize, and that being in editorial's preferred type of book, they could end up drawing in editorial interference to preserve an IP editorial was reshaping more for their ideal of marketability. He was also at the time under either the Young Justice editorial board or (I believe, though I could definitely be wrong) the Superman board when the YJ group was folded away.

In a way, you could argue that Time Drake (the familiar, successful, fan-favorite character) was marginalized for "Tim Drake" (a loose collection of shallow marketing ideas and Scott Lobdell's apathy compared to Jason Todd, who likely enjoyed editorial not caring about him as much.)

They didn't shy away from him. Tim was present in all of the Batman crossovers of the New 52.
Court of Owls, Death of the Family, Requiem, Batman Eternal, Robin Rises, Batman and Robin Eternal and Robin War.

[godisawesome]

They didn't shy away from him. Tim was present in all of the Batman crossovers of the New 52.
Court of Owls, Death of the Family, Requiem, Batman Eternal, Robin Rises, Batman and Robin Eternal and Robin War.

You're right; for whatever reason, I mostly just remember him losing his Court of Owls issue because Judd Winnick some other forgettable story that didn't feature him, and at the time I was mildly desperate to see someone else not named Scott Lobdell write him.

Than I was reminded why I felt that way with his tired, overwrought, and nonsensical Death of the Family crossover with RHATO, where poor Fabian Nicieza was still doing his damndest to script the Teen Titans stories into making sense based off the worst 90's-at-Marvel comics I'd ever seen my beloved 90s DC characters involved in.

It really can't be overstated how much Tim Drake fans despised the New 52 version of Teen Titans.

[Aahz]

They didn't shy away from him. Tim was present in all of the Batman crossovers of the New 52.
Court of Owls, Death of the Family, Requiem, Batman Eternal, Robin Rises, Batman and Robin Eternal and Robin War.

IIRC he didn't had tie in to CoO, he was only in a single panel in Batman #8.

And in the other events he got either no focus, got shoved off into side plots and/or was used to prop up other characters.

And he had basically no team ups with other Batfamily members out side of these events (unlike the others).

[Drako]

IIRC he didn't had tie in to CoO, he was only in a single panel in Batman #8.

And in the other events he got either no focus, got shoved off into side plots and/or was used to prop up other characters.

And he had basically no team ups with other Batfamily members out side of these events (unlike the others).

Well, he was in a Teen Titans book, so he was doing Teen Titans things. And even then, he was in both Batman weekly books, that's a lot.

Also, it's not like the other characters were constantly doing things togheter. I can recall only one instance that Batgirl appeared in the Nightwing book and vice versa.

[Aahz]

Also, it's not like the other characters were constantly doing things togheter. I can recall only one instance that Batgirl appeared in the Nightwing book and vice versa.

That is enough to restablish their relation post flashpoint, but they never really did something like this with Tim.

And I think giving Tim just one propper team up issue with Bruce or Dick would have helped allot during that time.

And even then, he was in both Batman weekly books, that's a lot.

In Batman eternal he was just used to prop up harper Row and in Batman and Robin Eternal he and Jason were in the first half send of to a pointless side quest and basically ignored in the second half.

Between the 78 issues of both externals series they could even give him a single team up story (or just an issue of hanging out), with a core Batfamily member other than Jason.

[Fergus]

That is enough to restablish their relation post flashpoint, but they never really did something like this with Tim.

And I think giving Tim just one propper team up issue with Bruce or Dick would have helped allot during that time.

In Batman eternal he was just used to prop up harper Row and in Batman and Robin Eternal he and Jason were in the first half send of to a pointless side quest and basically ignored in the second half.

Between the 78 issues of both externals series they could even give him a single team up story (or just an issue of hanging out), with a core Batfamily member other than Jason.

Tim and Dick had plenty of interactions in the n52.
Batman and Robin -several arcs.
Grayson - Robin war Tie in
BRE

How you can view a character not having more Batfamily interactions as being marginalized when some bat characters didn't have home and barely interacted with the family.

If Tim starring in 1 or 2 series along with multiple other appearances elsewhere is the character being marginalized then what would you call the treatment of say Cass for example?

[dietrich]

So it's basically a matter of the character not being used well.

Exactly. Retconing him into always being RR never Robin was such a stupid idea.

[Drako]

That is enough to restablish their relation post flashpoint, but they never really did something like this with Tim.

And I think giving Tim just one propper team up issue with Bruce or Dick would have helped allot during that time.

It's not like if he was stranded on a island and could not interact with the other characters. First issue of Batman New 52, he was there alongside Dick and Damian. He was buddy with Jason Todd and appeared in the Outlaws book.

That arc where Damian goes after the Robins, he was there and made into that famous shot of all of them by Gleason (The end of that arc was a team-up of them with Batman). He went to Apocoplyse with Batman, Batgirl and Red Hood to save Damian.

After Dick came back to Gotham in Grayson, he appeared in 5 issues of the book.

[Aahz]

Tim and Dick had plenty of interactions in the n52.
Batman and Robin -several arcs.
Grayson - Robin war Tie in
BRE

Being in the same panel is not the same as interacting.
There is no focus on Tim relation with anyone appart from Jason (and maybe him and Damian hating each other).

Btw. BRE and Grayson are iirc DCYou and not New52.

[Frontier]

Exactly. Retconing him into always being RR never Robin was such a stupid idea.

The five year timeline was a stupid idea, especially when it came to the Robins .

[dietrich]

But they had at least occasionally team ups with him or with other Batfamily members or plots in the events, on the other hand Tim felt pretty isolated and out of focus in comparison.

Yes they could have had him team up occasionally up with Batman but they didn't and that's fine. Tim was busy elsewhere, Bruce lost his memories for some of the new52 and there were new characters that need to be introduced to the Batman readers so they took priority.

Tim had quite a few team ups with other Batfam. He took part in 3 or so bat events/cross overs. Again not every bat family character got that.

I don't understand how you can ever view Tim as marginalised during the new52. It smacks of entitlement or expecting preferential treatment.

He already had 2 ongoing titles even Dick Grayson the Batfamily member with the longest tenure. The 2nd most significant character in the Batman narrative [he was there from jump] didn't get 2 titles.

Dick was also pretty isolated from Gotham in the new 52 due to Grayson.
The series meant to celebrate his anniversary was repurposed to push another character.
Dick's history was also badly butchered by new52 retcons with the additional bonus of higher ups hacking off an important part of his lore and grafting it on to Tim.
lets not forget, DC tried to kill him off during the new 52 yet because Tim didn't have enough team ups with Batman and the batfam and that means Tim was marginalized.


Some characters only got brought back towards the end of the new 52, some were pretty much exlied from Gotham. Showing up even less than Tim in the main Batman title, used even less than Tim in events.

You need to consider how other Bat characters were used during the new 52 period.

Consider that writers have creative freedom. They come up with story ideas and the cast of characters.

Occasionally DC mandates that certain characters have to be included. At times some characters are off limits for various reasons eg. Damian despite being Robin during Snyder's batman run was off limits due to the writer having a 10 year old son so he didn't want to write a 10 year old in violent scenes [fyi this also isn't Damian being marginalised].

That still left him with large extended batfam, Gotham characters who are well known supporting characters in Batman stories and a number of original characters.

That a lot of characters so it's understand able that Tim didn't show much in that run. It's the same with other Batman and individual batfamily writers. If they didn't have a story idea that included Tim then they don't have a story with him
Honestly new 52 didn't give us a lot of Bat family interactions or team ups. BRE and Batman Eternal were bat events so we got interactions in those.
Robin war tie ins.
Death of the family and the tie in's
B&R gave us 3 arcs with Robins interacting
Batman Inc
Court of Owls
Batgirl I seem to recall some Dick/Babs [that might have been a phone conversation though]

I feel like I'm forgetting some others.

[dietrich]

The five year timeline was a stupid idea, especially when it came to the Robins .

Still can't understand how anyone at Dc thought that'd ever go down well. Being Robin is pretty much the only thing the character has.

Every thread on every comics forum when ever any topic that has anything to with Tim, Robin, batfamily comes up guaranteed to see Tim fans popping [unprompted and off topic] to tell everyone that he was the best Robin.

That's not something you see with fans of other Robins. not even fans of the actual objectively Best Robin

Writers do it as well in interviews and at times in story.
It's clearly very dear to his fans. I can't imagine people behind the scenes are ignorant of that fact.

I mean, what is Tim if he wasn't ever a Robin/

[Drako]

Yes they could have had him team up occasionally up with Batman but they didn't and that's fine. Tim was busy elsewhere, Bruce lost his memories for some of the new52 and there were new characters that need to be introduced to the Batman readers so they took priority.

Tim had quite a few team ups with other Batfam. He took part in 3 or so bat events/cross overs. Again not every bat family character got that.

I don't understand how you can ever view Tim as marginalised during the new52. It smacks of entitlement or expecting preferential treatment.

He already had 2 ongoing titles even Dick Grayson the Batfamily member with the longest tenure. The 2nd most significant character in the Batman narrative [he was there from jump] didn't get 2 titles.

Dick was also pretty isolated from Gotham in the new 52 due to Grayson.
The series meant to celebrate his anniversary was repurposed to push another character.
Dick's history was also badly butchered by new52 retcons with the additional bonus of higher ups hacking off an important part of his lore and grafting it on to Tim.
lets not forget, DC tried to kill him off during the new 52 yet because Tim didn't have enough team ups with Batman and the batfam and that means Tim was marginalized.


Some characters only got brought back towards the end of the new 52, some were pretty much exlied from Gotham. Showing up even less than Tim in the main Batman title, used even less than Tim in events.

You need to consider how other Bat characters were used during the new 52 period.

Consider that writers have creative freedom. They come up with story ideas and the cast of characters.

Occasionally DC mandates that certain characters have to be included. At times some characters are off limits for various reasons eg. Damian despite being Robin during Snyder's batman run was off limits due to the writer having a 10 year old son so he didn't want to write a 10 year old in violent scenes [fyi this also isn't Damian being marginalised].

That still left him with large extended batfam, Gotham characters who are well known supporting characters in Batman stories and a number of original characters.

That a lot of characters so it's understand able that Tim didn't show much in that run. It's the same with other Batman and individual batfamily writers. If they didn't have a story idea that included Tim then they don't have a story with him
Honestly new 52 didn't give us a lot of Bat family interactions or team ups. BRE and Batman Eternal were bat events so we got interactions in those.
Robin war tie ins.
Death of the family and the tie in's
B&R gave us 3 arcs with Robins interacting
Batman Inc
Court of Owls
Batgirl I seem to recall some Dick/Babs [that might have been a phone conversation though]

I feel like I'm forgetting some others.

I forgot to mention, but Tim was also in Batman Inc of the New 52.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Still can't understand how anyone at Dc thought that'd ever go down well. Being Robin is pretty much the only thing the character has.

Every thread on every comics forum when ever any topic that has anything to with Tim, Robin, batfamily comes up guaranteed to see Tim fans popping [unprompted and off topic] to tell everyone that he was the best Robin.

That's not something you see with fans of other Robins. not even fans of the actual objectively Best Robin

Writers do it as well in interviews and at times in story.
It's clearly very dear to his fans. I can't imagine people behind the scenes are ignorant of that fact.

I mean, what is Tim if he wasn't ever a Robin/

He was Red Robin which was working fine until the n52 butchered that.

[Jackalope89]

Still can't understand how anyone at Dc thought that'd ever go down well. Being Robin is pretty much the only thing the character has.

Every thread on every comics forum when ever any topic that has anything to with Tim, Robin, batfamily comes up guaranteed to see Tim fans popping [unprompted and off topic] to tell everyone that he was the best Robin.

That's not something you see with fans of other Robins. not even fans of the actual objectively Best Robin

Writers do it as well in interviews and at times in story.
It's clearly very dear to his fans. I can't imagine people behind the scenes are ignorant of that fact.

I mean, what is Tim if he wasn't ever a Robin/

Oh, I know! Drake!
Not the dragon kind, but the duck. Duck Boy. Darkwing Duck.