Did Andor "ruin" Star Wars?

[superduperman]

So, the AV Club has an interesting article that I personally relate to. It basically asks is Andor so good that all other Star Wars projects seem inferior by comparison? This is something I've noticed. I'm just "meh" for Mandalorian season 3. And I feel like Mando is...fine. But Andor kind of raised the bar and it's a little depressing that there isn't more shows like it. Does anyone else feel this way?

https://www.avclub.com/andor-and-its...ars-1850144600

[Frontier]

Not really from my perspective if only because the level of quality on Andor is something I feel like would be impossible to replicate at the consistent output of Disney Star Wars' TV output, so I don't expect it.

[LordMikel]

While I've not finished Andor yet, I don't think it is a gold standard. It has been three episodes of people walking around and talking.

[Frobisher]

It’s good, but it’s not Star Wars. Kind of like a fan-fiction that evolved into a decent sci-fi dystopia in its own right, but they kept the tie fighters cos no-one cares about new IP.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

So, the AV Club has an interesting article that I personally relate to. It basically asks is Andor so good that all other Star Wars projects seem inferior by comparison? This is something I've noticed. I'm just "meh" for Mandalorian season 3. And I feel like Mando is...fine. But Andor kind of raised the bar and it's a little depressing that there isn't more shows like it. Does anyone else feel this way?

https://www.avclub.com/andor-and-its...ars-1850144600

No because I enjoy the High Republic and Jedi Survivor. They are all different flavors of Star Wars and you pick the ones you want.

Andor threw down the gauntlet for other franchises so it's up to them to meet it.

[godisawesome]

Nah. It hasn’t even if I think it’s got the best execution for Star Wars thus far, and I mean that as the highest of compliments. I think it’s more that it will suit some tastes better, and be colder to others in spite of its quality, simply because of the nature of the franchise.

For one thing, I think the article undervalues the quality in execution of Star War’s other greatest hits: ESB has equal execution, and the Mandalorian Seaosn 2 is also of the same quality. I’d also argue that even “just good” Star Wars entires are very close to Andor’s quality: ROTJ is still as excellent an ending of the OT as ANH was revolutionary to film storytelling, The Mandalorian Season One still has an almost unimpeachable reputation, and ROTS has a hell of a lot strengths that whole franchises have failed to reach in spite of its flaws. And of course, Gilroy’s own reshoots and editing of Rogue One make it basically “Andor with a bigger and somehow better climax,” so that comparison’s still a wash too.

But for the second, and in my opinion more important thing…

…Andor sacrifices some significant potential and power by focusing almost exclusively on only one of Star Wars’s many genre-elements in its Season One concept.

Andor has effectively set a freakishly high standard for the “hard sci-fi” segments of Star Wars; if the story is focusing on politics, espionage, oppression, and “mundanity” of Star Wars’s setting, it has to match a meticulously crafted, patiently developed, excruciatingly paced ensemble piece in Andor. But Star Wars encompasses much more than politics, espionage, and oppression, and generally tends more towards mixing the mundane with the fantastic. That adds spiritual, artistic, and emotional dimensions to the franchise that Andor, by it’s more restrained premise, can’t quite access either as quickly or as creatively. Andor’s characters aren’t as likely to be as larger-than-life, it’s conflicts not quite as awe-inspiring in spectacle, and maybe most importantly, it’s emotional tenor has trouble covering the same immediate range of “heroes” and “villains.” And a lot of that is because the genre it focuses on has a lot of limitations.

That’s not to say that Andor doesn’t have fantastic characters - they just take longer to build to that point. Nor does it lack great heroes and villains - it simply prefers flawed and nuanced characters so much that it tends to shy away from operatically colorful but-still-flawed-and-nuanced heroes and villains out of fear at them outshining it’s genres types of protagonists, or simple preference. It also, unlike TLJ, actually earns genuine praise for being intelligent, deep, and respectful, so Andor isn’t just basking in jaded cynicism and obnoxiously stupid pessimism (because seriously, TLJ is the equivalent of a bitter, deeply drunk malcontent trying to tell a “real” fairy tale and exposing a lot of ugly biases and ignorance.) And I would argue that, if I were making Rogue Squadron or any other more “mundane” Star Wars adventure right now, I’d be a little stressed at having to reach Andor’s level…

…But Andor has “taken itself off the board” when it comes to trying to match moments like The Mandalorian’s episode 2 when Grogu saves Din from the Mudhorn, or Vader’s redemption in ROTJ, or Yoda’s training of Luke in ESB, or even great parts of lesser movies or shows, like Sidious crashing Maul’s reign on Mandalore in TCW, or even (for a more mundane example that better illustrates the difference in character types) Finn’s “awakening” in TFA’s start. And in general, a lot of the other Star Wars stories start with more likable characters who can have Andor-level depth because they’re not scared of operatic heroes and villains… and these productions are still quite capable of having a Andor-style characters in their cast.

And all this means, that while it may not seem fair, a more “conventional” Star Wars film doesn’t have to have perfect execution in its various genres to match Andor - they have more substance to draw from then Andor, even if Andor perfectly refines the substance it does have.

And recalling Rogue One, I guess the way I’d really put it is: Rogue One matches Andor in quality of execution in all the things Andor does, but gets jacked up more by having characters like Chirrut Imwe and by being able to have Vader’s rampage - so if someone still prefers Rogue One, it’s not a matter of quality, it’s a matter of taste, likely by being just stylistically turned off by the more overtly fantastic and escapist elements.

[Immortal Weapon]

I don't understand how a project can ruin something by being good.

[BeastieRunner]

I don't understand how a project can ruin something by being good.

I agree? It's an odd stance ...

That being said, I think Andor is overrated.

[Tofali]

Andor is more like an Indie Oscar bait movie while The Mandalorian is the whole Star Wars article which should be pure entertainment.

They are different projects and have different target audiences.

[superduperman]

No because I enjoy the High Republic and Jedi Survivor. They are all different flavors of Star Wars and you pick the ones you want.

Andor threw down the gauntlet for other franchises so it's up to them to meet it.

I was mostly referring to movies and TV shows. I've never played any of the games so I wasn't really thinking of those. I'll defer to someone else's judgement on that one.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I was mostly referring to movies and TV shows. I've never played any of the games so I wasn't really thinking of those. I'll defer to someone else's judgement on that one.

Alright.

Basically Andor has laid down the gauntlet for the other shows and movies to step up and be expansive than nostalgic.

You could apply that to star wars or other franchises if you want.

[Tofali]

Success is the only metric that matters and If it was more successful than The Mandalorian then that gauntlet would have had a point to make but it wasn't.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Success is the only metric that matters and If it was more successful than The Mandalorian then that gauntlet would have had a point to make but it wasn't.

I'm talking about for me personally. Andor set a high bar that I'm gonna judge other franchises against. But I'm not a huge fan of the original trilogy and I'm not rushing to get everything Star Wars so I'm probably not the metric to judge it on.

[Tofali]

I'm talking about for me personally. Andor set a high bar that I'm gonna judge other franchises against. But I'm not a huge fan of the original trilogy and I'm not rushing to get everything Star Wars so I'm probably not the metric to judge it on.

I understand, I loved Andor too but I don't want my Star Wars to be as laborious as Andor or other franchises to copy it to their own demise.

[Ascended]

I think the idea that Andor is so good nothing else will match it and the franchise will collapse is.....that's some clickbait right there.

Andor was good. I think a lot of folks overrate it, but it was good. Easily among the better entries in the franchise...though given how bad some SW stuff is, that bar might be lower than we fans would like to admit. We got some real great stuff in SW, but the low points are real damn low too.

But Andor is also a very specific kind of story, playing with very specific subgenres and themes, that aren't at all comparable to many other elements in the franchise. If, I dunno, Ashoka's show turns out to be a weird, psychedelic trip through the Force by way of dumbed down Eastern philosophies and samurai narrative proxies, then it's not gonna have much in common with Andor and direct comparisons will be moot.

If anything, the quality of craft that went into Andor will raise the stakes for other creators to bring their A-game and make the best stuff they can. But that's less a direct comparison and more a general expectation for quality. And Andor wasn't so good those standards can't be matched. And even in that, I'm pretty sure Mando raised the stakes before Andor started filming. Mando might just be a straight forward spaghetti western about a gunslinger rolling into a new town each week, but it's really gods damn good at being a straight forward spaghetti western.