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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofali View Post
    I understand, I loved Andor too but I don't want my Star Wars to be as laborious as Andor or other franchises to copy it to their own demise.
    It depends on what they take away as the lesson. Andor makes the case for being expansive and any character can hold their own show. It also gives a good idea of what a prequel should be. Sony should be taking notes for their discount MCU lol.

    But I wouldn't blame Gilroy if other franchises screw it up. Same way I don't blame Chris Nolan for the origin reboot trend or Alan Moore for the darker shift in the 80s or Fiege for the interconnected franchise. They started a trend but I can't blame the screw ups on them.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 02-28-2023 at 02:25 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    It depends on what they take away as the lesson. Andor makes the case for being expansive and any character can hold their own show. It also gives a good idea of what a prequel should be. Sony should be taking notes for their discount MCU lol.

    But I wouldn't blame Gilroy if other franchises screw it up. Same way I don't blame Chris Nolan for the origin reboot trend or Alan Moore for the darker shift in the 80s or Fiege for the interconnected franchise. They started a trend but I can't blame the screw ups on them.
    The lessons other creators and studios should take from Andor is to analyze what the characters you’re basing your story around needs… and where that character might still be limited by themselves, and still need a strong supporting cast to compensate.

    Cassian, as introduced in Rogue One and shown on his own show, can’t dominate a story the way Din Djarin can, or even the way Obi-Wan can, even if his show was much better in execution than Obi-Wan Kenobi. Cassian is designed as a bit too restrained and mundane a character to do that, and the us his show needed characters like Luthen or Mothma, who might also not quite be able to carry a show on their own, but can all help pick up the slack.

    Stylistically, Andor has dominated its own genre of Star Wars… but no one should expect people to lose interest in more immediately interesting characters and stories just because Andor did a great job with a quieter and smaller one.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Empire Strikes Back.

    The Wrath of Khan.

    Dark Knight.

    Spider-Man 2 (Edit, Yes Chrislll my goof had a brain fart).

    X2

    These are all sequels that many feel are better than the original feel and even the best of the franchise as a whole. Should have the franchises completely ended after them? You don't get Logan or First Class if they ended with X2, you don't get an MCU Spider-Man, or the Batman, No Voyage Home or Undiscovered Country, and no Andor if you called it quits after Empire.

    Sometimes you get a stinker sometimes you get something more fun than thought provoking and sometimes every once in a while, you get an Andor, but you don't get Andor if you quit.
    Last edited by Jokerz79; 03-02-2023 at 06:27 PM.

  4. #19
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Andor's a great show, and despite not having any Force users and sidelining alien races, it's still sci-fi melodrama.(let's not get carried away) So no, it hasn't "ruined" Star Wars for me.

  5. #20
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Empire Strikes Back.

    The Wrath of Khan.

    Dark Knight.

    Spider-Man 2002.

    X2

    These are all sequels that many feel are better than the original feel and even the best of the franchise as a whole. Should have the franchises completely ended after them? You don't get Logan or First Class if they ended with X2, you don't get an MCU Spider-Man, or the Batman, No Voyage Home or Undiscovered Country, and no Andor if you called it quits after Empire.

    Sometimes you get a stinker sometimes you get something more fun than thought provoking and sometimes every once in a while, you get an Andor, but you don't get Andor if you quit.


    Do you mean Spider-Man 2? The 2002 film didn't follow up anything, unless you mean the two 70's live-action TV shows.
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  6. #21
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    I think Andor was boring at first and pick up quite well. But It didnt feel like Star Wars, more like another Sci-Fi adventure not SW related.

    Mandalorian season 1 and 2, thats where I have the Star Wars feeling.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    I find this question quite interesting because for most people Star Wars is like this comfort childhood nostalgia thing (probably why each generation reacts quite vehemently to each new trilogy being “wrong”), whereas Andor is quite explicitly a regular TV series for adults transplanted into the Star Wars setting. So it’s like the stuff like maybe we feel we’re supposed to be watching, but as a result it doesn’t feel like Star Wars. I don’t think it’s even particularly exceptional in that, but it’s certainly not what we’re used to.

    The Mandalorian, on the other hand, feels incredibly tailored to appeal to adults who remember enacting little stories with their Kenner toys - probably fleshing out the minor characters while Han Solo et all sit in the brig. This is almost certainly where Filoni and Favreau are coming at things from.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    I find this question quite interesting because for most people Star Wars is like this comfort childhood nostalgia thing (probably why each generation reacts quite vehemently to each new trilogy being “wrong”), whereas Andor is quite explicitly a regular TV series for adults transplanted into the Star Wars setting. So it’s like the stuff like maybe we feel we’re supposed to be watching, but as a result it doesn’t feel like Star Wars. I don’t think it’s even particularly exceptional in that, but it’s certainly not what we’re used to.

    The Mandalorian, on the other hand, feels incredibly tailored to appeal to adults who remember enacting little stories with their Kenner toys - probably fleshing out the minor characters while Han Solo et all sit in the brig. This is almost certainly where Filoni and Favreau are coming at things from.
    Eh, I kind of disagree, because I think you're overestimating "regular TV series for adults" in relation to Andor, and underestimating how much escapism *does* open of avenues for artistic expression and storytelling that more mundane stories would struggle to reach, and how much Andor *is* still escapist and how much it still very much is Star Wars in spite of its restraint.

    Most regular tv shows for adults don't have Andor's level of execution for its narrative, character arcs, and themes; even many premium cable shows succumb to the same "trite" flaws in storytelling that have damaged previous Star Wars films and shows at a rate far worse than Andor's weakest moments. Poor character motivations, bad logistical writing, an inability to excite the audience because the writer is focused on inherently boring things have sunk countless TV shows that tried to be more "naturalistic" than Andor, just as they caused major problems for people who dislike the PT or who don't share TLJ's cynical prejudices.

    At the same time, even shows that have matched Andor's execution don't always enjoy the benefits of escapism that Andor does - and those that do share in escapism also enjoy the same storytelling benefits it has. Andor has screams of an exterminated species used as torture and a high concept sci-fi prison, Arcane has class warfare with super-soldier serum and magitek, etc.

    Those are things that more naturalistic stories can't lean into, even if they have near pitch perfect execution; larger than life characters and concepts tap into more powerful emotional and spiritual themes without inherently sacrificing anything in the mental area. Succession may be a great naturalistic show, but its never going to have the same impact as House of the Dragon because it confines itself to areas that House of the Dragon can dominate just as much, while House of the Dragon gets to soar in areas Succession can't.

    And The Mandalorian is actually closer to Andor's execution than some people want to admit - it just also enjoys an even greater embrace of escapism, which *does* allow for even greater exploitation of spiritual and emotional engagement with the audience. It's much more than nostalgia and "bashing toys together" (which for the record, I regard as having a parallel whenever pretentious films reflect their creators being equally obsessed with shallow, trivial and self-centered nostalgia for drama.) When the Mandalorian *does* fail to match Andor's level of execution, it gets to gleefully embrace bigger escapist advantages as well - like having a character go through a religious experience in discovering an ancient folktale is 100% true...
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  9. #24
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    Andor was my first exposure to Star Wars since ROTJ. I even went on to see the PT for the first, and loved that as well.

    Andor has proven to be my gateway to Star Wars.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    No, that was JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  11. #26
    Invincible Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    No, that was JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson
    This^^^^^^

    I don't think Andor is the greatest Star Wars story since ESB. It was good, but flawed
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    This^^^^^^

    I don't think Andor is the greatest Star Wars story since ESB. It was good, but flawed
    Speaking of Rian Johnson....

    Rian Johnson: Hey, when am I going to do my Star Wars trilogy?

    Kathleen Kennedy: Oh! I would love to... but I have to wash my hair.

    Rian Johnson: What?

    Kathleen Kennedy: Gotta go!
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member Godzilla2099's Avatar
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    Andor is only a broken piece of glass within the Star Wars Car Wreck.

    Wouldn't go as far as saying the Franchise is Dead, but the host of this video literally hit every bulls-eye why Star Wars is sinking for me.


  14. #29
    Spam Hunter Conn Seanery's Avatar
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    And that's another unsurprising example of how amateur youtube review videos almost always suck. I'd heard more than enough of that monotone trying-too-hard-to-be-clever drivel by the time I got to him calling Kathleen Kennedy a "diversity hire" before giving up.
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  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conn Seanery View Post
    And that's another unsurprising example of how amateur youtube review videos almost always suck. I'd heard more than enough of that monotone trying-too-hard-to-be-clever drivel by the time I got to him calling Kathleen Kennedy a "diversity hire" before giving up.
    You made it further than I did, I just looked at the title and couldn't care enough to click play.
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