Black Lightning Appreciation Thread 2023

[bat22]

Plastic Man and Fire got their resurgence through appearances in popular books and consistent use afterwards. They didn't require putting other characters in limbo. Traditionally, doing such a thing has not resulted in a character gaining a resurgence (and the Vietnamese Thunder and Lightning weren't all that popular to begin with).

The only thing keeping the Vietnamese Thunder and Lightning brothers is DC's own lack of interest in them. Hell, the Pierce sisters have been in limbo for years and the Vietnamese characters have been seen nowhere in sight.

Plastic Man and Fire didn't have other characters sharing their namesakes. A character's popularity is subject to change, and the DCU with its frequency of revisions offers that possibility to the Vietnamese Thunder and Lightning. Similar to Wind Dragon in the JLU being an updated Samurai. But my readiness for putting the Pierce sisters in limbo is mainly that I feel they hinder and pigeonhole Black Lightning rather than anything revitalizing.

Most people don't know or care about Superman's other suitors besides Lois Lane. The only one of Batman's other girlfriends besides Selina that is actually memorable is Talia (and often for the wrong reasons). Most fans don't care for Vicki or Silver and the former was considered the weakest part of the first Burton Batman film.

Most people probably are aware of Lana Lang as well. I'm not saying that Vale or St. Cloud are heavyweight romance options for the Bat, but they are examples of pre-existing romances that have "the high ground" compared to newer romances regardless of their race.

[Agent Z]

Plastic Man and Fire didn't have other characters sharing their namesakes.

We have two Hawkeyes, two Captain Americas, two Flashes, two Supermen and two Spider-Men running around. Sharing a namesake clearly is not the problem. It's not like Gan and Tavis were particularly popular before Jennifer and Anika showed up. If you put them in limbo to promote Gan and Tavis, the response will be apathy at best and annoyance at worst. We're talking about two characters whose biggest exposure in mainstream media was the Teen Titans cartoon from the 2000s and even then they only appeared in two episodes.

A character's popularity is subject to change, and the DCU with its frequency of revisions offers that possibility to the Vietnamese Thunder and Lightning. Similar to Wind Dragon in the JLU being an updated Samurai.

Well if using the same aliases as Jeff's daughters is an issue, maybe Gan and Tavis could use such a change as well. They're about as well known as the original version of Samurai anyway.

But my readiness for putting the Pierce sisters in limbo is mainly that I feel they hinder and pigeonhole Black Lightning rather than anything revitalizing.

People seem to say this about any kids these days and frankly I don't see what their issue is. Jefferson has a lot of potential but very little of it was realized before he became a father. The CW show did more with him in four seasons than the comics did in five decades were his appearances largely consisted of showing up to remind people he existed and that DC had more than one black chracter.

Most people probably are aware of Lana Lang as well.

"Aware of" and "liking" are two different things.

I'm not saying that Vale or St. Cloud are heavyweight romance options for the Bat, but they are examples of pre-existing romances that have "the high ground" compared to newer romances regardless of their race.

Which just means they'd be slightly less hated than a new love interest. My point is that for all people like to sight how superheroes have multiple love interests, there is a reason only one or two are standouts. Might as well stick with those instead of a forgettable or hated character who only exists to be a notch on the hero's belt.

[bat22]

We have two Hawkeyes, two Captain Americas, two Flashes, two Supermen and two Spider-Men running around. Sharing a namesake clearly is not the problem. It's not like Gan and Tavis were particularly popular before Jennifer and Anika showed up. If you put them in limbo to promote Gan and Tavis, the response will be apathy at best and annoyance at worst. We're talking about two characters whose biggest exposure in mainstream media was the Teen Titans cartoon from the 2000s and even then they only appeared in two episodes.

The Speed Force and GL Corps concepts allow for multiples, but I think you'll find more dissention when it comes to other namesakes as to who is "the real" Capt. America or who is arguably a "diversity hire" pretender. And it sounds to me like there's room for actual "progressivism" then, where it comes to a couple of Vietnamese American characters' exposure or treatment. Part of that includes removing a redundant pair of Thunder and Lightning.

Well if using the same aliases as Jeff's daughters is an issue, maybe Gan and Tavis could use such a change as well. They're about as well known as the original version of Samurai anyway.

Or maybe the junior characters make the name change if they get to stick around.

People seem to say this about any kids these days and frankly I don't see what their issue is. Jefferson has a lot of potential but very little of it was realized before he became a father. The CW show did more with him in four seasons than the comics did in five decades were his appearances largely consisted of showing up to remind people he existed and that DC had more than one black chracter.

4 seasons on the CW isn't something to brag about. This is the same CW that gave 2 extra seasons to their own "Ryan Wilder" Batwoman. Whose long-running Arrow and Flash series arguably peaked in their first 2 seasons. There's a reason the CW was sold for next to nothing; and, while Black Lightning probably benefitted from the exposure, cutting the insta-daughters off of him would go a long way to restoring that missed potential.

"Aware of" and "liking" are two different things.

No character is going to be unanimously liked. I'm not that big on Lois Lane but I acknowledge the strength of her "claim" (brought on by her tenure rather than her race) on Superman compared to the other potential suitors.

Which just means they'd be slightly less hated than a new love interest. My point is that for all people like to sight how superheroes have multiple love interests, there is a reason only one or two are standouts. Might as well stick with those instead of a forgettable or hated character who only exists to be a notch on the hero's belt.

You don't get to one or two standouts by keeping Bats or Supes out of the dating pool. BL is entitled to that same courtesy, trying different suitors on for size over time is not giving him a harem.

[Agent Z]

The Speed Force and GL Corps concepts allow for multiples, but I think you'll find more dissention when it comes to other namesakes as to who is "the real" Capt. America or who is arguably a "diversity hire" pretender. And it sounds to me like there's room for actual "progressivism" then, where it comes to a couple of Vietnamese American characters' exposure or treatment. Part of that includes removing a redundant pair of Thunder and Lightning.

How are Jennifer and Anika the redundant ones? Why is using Gan and Tavis more progressive than using them?

I'm not against Gan and Tavis at all, but you're making this a binary choice when it isn't. Whatever reasons you think Gan and Tavis aren't more well known, Jennifer and Anika have nothing to do with it.

Or maybe the junior characters make the name change if they get to stick around.

Fun fact: Gan and Tavis aren't even the first DC characters to use the aliases Thunder and Lightning. Their own wikipedia page points this out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunde...tning_(comics)

4 seasons on the CW isn't something to brag about.

Compared to the comics, it is. And I say this as someone with his own issues regarding the CW shows. If anything, that show ended at just the right time compared to its contemporaries.

There's a reason the CW was sold for next to nothing; and, while Black Lightning probably benefitted from the exposure, cutting the insta-daughters off of him would go a long way to restoring that missed potential.

What missed potential is being hindered by his daughters?

No character is going to be unanimously liked. I'm not that big on Lois Lane but I acknowledge the strength of her "claim" (brought on by her tenure rather than her race) on Superman compared to the other potential suitors.

Lois may not be unanimously liked but she is far more popular than any other love interest Superman has had, save for Wonder Woman who wasn't made to be his love interest and whose relationship with Superman went over like a lead balloon in the New 52. Lana Lang is contentious at best, especially her Smallville and Superman & Lois incarnations. If people like her at all, it's when she's an ex-girlfriend or with someone else like John Henry Irons.

You don't get to one or two standouts by keeping Bats or Supes out of the dating pool. BL is entitled to that same courtesy, trying different suitors on for size over time is not giving him a harem.

Lois has been in Superman's life as a love interest since the first issue of Action Comics.

[4sake Baned]

Edited to “Love BL & hopefully Outsiders will be relaunched with him as the leader asap.. With little to no Batman involvement.

Also love Lightning & Thunder. I’d change Lighting name to Blackout & have them both join the next version of TT. They do nothing to hurt/hold BL back imo. Never have/will feed into the nonsense narrative

It was wack the last writer on
Didnt finish the storyline with BL/katana hopefully the next one does & they are in a rship at the start of the next series..

Cold deadly hands was HOT garbage was happy they it was ignored/recon & DC brought his daughters back in community shortly after that trash was done. Tony should be banned from writing BL imo again if anything he hold the character back with his randomly hate with anything he not involved in or doesn’t like.

Jacob Pierce (Dark Knights of Steel) is an interesting concept would like that I wouldn’t fine seeing another version of in the multi-verse.. Next time making him BL & Katana could be a compelling change.

Lol at the idea of Gan and Tavis Williams “being held back” by anything other then retailers & DC doing DC aka doubling & tripling down on the Trinity related comics especially Batman. The same thing that hold most back

[king81992]

The weird claim that Black Lightning's daughters 'hold him back' makes zero sense to me.

What's holding Black Lightning back is DC trying to turn him into Batman's yes man/ extension and caving into pressure from a certain group of fans who have issues when any non-white or non-straight character gets a push.

[LukeCagefan]

Edited to “Love BL & hopefully Outsiders will be relaunched with him as the leader asap.. With little to no Batman involvement.

Also love Lightning & Thunder. I’d change Lighting name to Blackout & have them both join the next version of TT. They do nothing to hurt/hold BL back imo. Never have/will feed into the nonsense narrative

It was wack the last writer on
Didnt finish the storyline with BL/katana hopefully the next one does & they are in a rship at the start of the next series..

Cold deadly hands was HOT garbage was happy they it was ignored/recon & DC brought his daughters back in community shortly after that trash was done. Tony should be banned from writing BL imo again if anything he hold the character back with his randomly hate with anything he not involved in or doesn’t like.

Jacob Pierce (Dark Knights of Steel) is an interesting concept would like that I wouldn’t fine seeing another version of in the multi-verse.. Next time making him BL & Katana could be a compelling change.

Lol at the idea of Gan and Tavis Williams “being held back” by anything other then retailers & DC doing DC aka doubling & tripling down on the Trinity related comics especially Batman. The same thing that hold most back

I actually really liked the Outsiders and I thought Bryan Hill did an amazing job on all the characters. I most read for Jefferson, Tatsu and Cassie, but it was awesome to see Lady Shiva used later on. I don't really care much for Signal but I really enjoyed the series. It was fun.

[skyvolt2000]

I actually really liked the Outsiders and I thought Bryan Hill did an amazing job on all the characters. I most read for Jefferson, Tatsu and Cassie, but it was awesome to see Lady Shiva used later on. I don't really care much for Signal but I really enjoyed the series. It was fun.

Not with Duke and that is why I dropped the last set of issues. Hill pandered to the Duke haters in Detective and in Outsiders. He could have left him out of the series and bought back Michael Lane or Orpheus.

I can agree with everyone else being done well.

Cold deadly hands was HOT garbage was happy they it was ignored/recon & DC brought his daughters back in community shortly after that trash was done. Tony should be banned from writing BL imo again if anything he hold the character back with his randomly hate with anything he not involved in or doesn’t like.

Who was the EDITOR for that book? Same one for Cyborg and New 52 Static. We know the nightmare he gave David Walker, John Rosum and Marc Bernardin. There is a reason DC let alone comics companies in general aren't hiring that person.

You don't get to one or two standouts by keeping Bats or Supes out of the dating pool. BL is entitled to that same courtesy, trying different suitors on for size over time is not giving him a harem.

What other woman has had Superman and lived to tell about and NOT get hands from Lois Lane? Smallville being the exception and Lois still got HIM.

Lana Lang is contentious at best, especially her Smallville and Superman & Lois incarnations.

Before New 52 Lana had a black husband (Ron Troupe) and now she is suppose to have Steel.

How are Jennifer and Anika the redundant ones? Why is using Gan and Tavis more progressive than using them?

I'm not against Gan and Tavis at all, but you're making this a binary choice when it isn't. Whatever reasons you think Gan and Tavis aren't more well known, Jennifer and Anika have nothing to do with it.

Outside of Teen Titans cartoon when have Gan and Tavis been seen??

The daughters have had way more development than those two and that is NOT counting the tv show.

[LukeCagefan]

[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;6396769]Not with Duke and that is why I dropped the last set of issues. Hill pandered to the Duke haters in Detective and in Outsiders. He could have left him out of the series and bought back Michael Lane or Orpheus.

I can agree with everyone else being done well.




Did you say Michael Lane? I felt like I was the only fan lol. But yeah, I don't have that much exposure with Duke so I didn't care too much for his character but I can see why his fans didn't appreciate his use in the series. He never stood out and that power change was odd. But I would like Hill on a Black Lightning solo with Katana having a strong role. Forget Tony Isabella.

[kcekada]

To me, Judd Winick's Thunder felt more like a parasite than an actual daughter to Black Lightning. Just someone's OC to age up Jefferson while milking off his cred. I did like the idea of Kingdom Come's Lightning waiting in the wings after a union with Jonni Thunder. Barring that, Katana seemed like a good match for him in the classic Outsiders run.
[/IMG]

Personally, there was more I disliked that liked about Winnick's Outsiders, but giving BL and adult daughter was one of the bigger problems with his series. I think that's one of the reasons I didn't bother with the TV series -- the daughters. But CW was notorious for straying from source material and bloating the casts instead of focusing on the main character.

[Agent Z]

Personally, there was more I disliked that liked about Winnick's Outsiders, but giving BL and adult daughter was one of the bigger problems with his series. I think that's one of the reasons I didn't bother with the TV series -- the daughters. But CW was notorious for straying from source material and bloating the casts instead of focusing on the main character.

The show didn't have that problem.

[bat22]

Personally, there was more I disliked that liked about Winnick's Outsiders, but giving BL and adult daughter was one of the bigger problems with his series. I think that's one of the reasons I didn't bother with the TV series -- the daughters. But CW was notorious for straying from source material and bloating the casts instead of focusing on the main character.

The problem with Outsiders' Thunder wasn't just giving BL an insta-daughter. He got an insta-full-grown-daughter. Like how was that not cheating BL out of his own stories of courtship and fatherhood? And then they doubled down with JSA's Lightning, insta-full-grown-daughter x2. So you end up with an aged-up BL mostly serving as "credentials" for Thunder and Lightning in the superhero biz.

Screw that. If those two leeches are so important with BL, then they can be presented as 3- to 5-year-old ordinary girls.

[lemonpeace]

The only issue Jen and Anissa present for Jefferson is they accelerate his timeline but they add to his character more than they take away. that's why (along with other more editorial reasons) they have so quickly become a staple of Black Lightning's mythos. like i get it, I have advocated for keeping the daughters on the backburner or retconning their relation to him to focus on a younger Jefferson but, realistically, at this point it's unlikely you can get rid of them without them inevitably being brought back because (as I said before) they're staples of his character; they've been too prominently featured in relation to him. the best case scenario would be to introduce them young, like Teen Titan age, and allow them to grow into better versions of the young adult heroes they were pre-Flashpoint.

I like Jefferson and Katana as an item. I feel there is so much potential into merging their niches and making The Outsiders their team (i.e no more "Batman &"). call me crazy but, as much as a I like Lynn and appreciate the black nuclear family unit the Pierces create together, I wouldn't mind if they just retconed Katana as the mother of Anissa and Jennifer. I feel Lynn has never (to my knowledge) gotten much development outside of loving wife or ammicable divorced ex-partner so, unless they're going to establish and expand on her potential connection to John Stewart, Katana is the more compelling character and brings more to the table for the dynamic. however, outside of Katana I think it would serve Jefferson better to just develop Lynn into a more interesting character.

[Will Evans]

Not with Duke and that is why I dropped the last set of issues. Hill pandered to the Duke haters in Detective and in Outsiders. He could have left him out of the series and bought back Michael Lane or Orpheus.

I can agree with everyone else being done well.




Who was the EDITOR for that book? Same one for Cyborg and New 52 Static. We know the nightmare he gave David Walker, John Rosum and Marc Bernardin. There is a reason DC let alone comics companies in general aren't hiring that person.




What other woman has had Superman and lived to tell about and NOT get hands from Lois Lane? Smallville being the exception and Lois still got HIM.




Before New 52 Lana had a black husband (Ron Troupe) and now she is suppose to have Steel.




Outside of Teen Titans cartoon when have Gan and Tavis been seen??

The daughters have had way more development than those two and that is NOT counting the tv show.

You’re getting Lucy Lane and Lana Lang mixed up. Lucy was married to Ron Troupe and never competed for her sister’s man’s affections. Lana Lang was Lois’s rival to Clark, but she’s dating Steel now.

Back on topic. Which Tobias Whale is canon now?
The albino or the one from Cold Deadly Hands?

[9th.]

The only issue Jen and Anissa present for Jefferson is they accelerate his timeline but they add to his character more than they take away. that's why (along with other more editorial reasons) they have so quickly become a staple of Black Lightning's mythos. like i get it, I have advocated for keeping the daughters on the backburner or retconning their relation to him to focus on a younger Jefferson but, realistically, at this point it's unlikely you can get rid of them without them inevitably being brought back because (as I said before) they're staples of his character; they've been too prominently featured in relation to him. the best case scenario would be to introduce them young, like Teen Titan age, and allow them to grow into better versions of the young adult heroes they were pre-Flashpoint.

I like Jefferson and Katana as an item. I feel there is so much potential into merging their niches and making The Outsiders their team (i.e no more "Batman &"). call me crazy but, as much as a I like Lynn and appreciate the black nuclear family unit the Pierces create together, I wouldn't mind if they just retconed Katana as the mother of Anissa and Jennifer. I feel Lynn has never (to my knowledge) gotten much development outside of loving wife or ammicable divorced ex-partner so, unless they're going to establish and expand on her potential connection to John Stewart, Katana is the more compelling character and brings more to the table for the dynamic. however, outside of Katana I think it would serve Jefferson better to just develop Lynn into a more interesting character.

I agree with the development of Lynn (and the possible relation to John) but BL would need a series that would run long enough to do so.