Peak Humans Known for Training, spend time with Roshi and another

[Captain Smith]

Thus, several peak humans end up with Master Roshi in the DB universe. They can develop Ki powers such as Krillin and Tien and Yamacha did. How do they end up on the power levels? Saiyans and others seem to have intrinsic, genetic better power levels but how do these folks do?

Ollie from Arrow
Doc Savage
Standard Batman
Steve Rogers
Daredevil

For fun, Kimball Kinnison - not a normal human, finishes Gray Lensman training with the Arisians who then send him to post Graduate School with Roshi.

If they do well, send them up to King Kai.

How does it turn out?

[big_adventure]

Ollie from Arrow isn't really all that close to CBPH. And while he's got a fantastic will for self-training, he's got zero talent for appreciating the job other people can do. I think Roshi gets pissed and pimp-slaps him to unconsciousness.

DD does the best - he's starting at a significantly higher level than the others (at least equal in strength, higher in skill and massively higher in speed and agility, plus the out-and-out super powers) and he's already into meditation and ki-focusing. Upgrading that by giving him a new path to massive, rapid improvement is going to be automatic. He'd become too much for Spider Man or Iron Fist in a few months, probably, and would wind up a significant power. No more street leveler tag for him, he's going to be on speed dial for handling planet-wreckers.

Steve maybe gets slightly more out of the training more quickly than Bruce: his serum-amped endurance is somewhat higher, so he'll be able to train longer and harder. It'll be close in any case. Both are serious student types and are very into training, though both might have sticks in their bums about dealing with a disgusting perv like Roshi.

Savage would be around the same as the CBPH poster children, I guess?

[The Arbiter]

Daredevil called in against planet wreckers?

I guess this depends on how tough you feel Goku was at his first Budokai post Roshi training. Then we can get a baseline for power growth.

[big_adventure]

Daredevil called in against planet wreckers?

I guess this depends on how tough you feel Goku was at his first Budokai post Roshi training. Then we can get a baseline for power growth.

Why the limit at first Budokai? Krillin is a normal human and he's most definitely capable of dealing with planet-busters by now. He's not a scratch on Goku and Vegeta of course, but doesn't have to be. I'd argue that Matt is starting from a massively higher baseline than Krillin. He wont be dealing with high-end threats after a month or two, but in the long term? Sure. I'm also not saying that he'd facetank Superman or anything, but that's not the bar one has to clear to be helpful dealing with planet-wrecking threats.

[The Arbiter]

Why the limit at first Budokai? Krillin is a normal human and he's most definitely capable of dealing with planet-busters by now. He's not a scratch on Goku and Vegeta of course, but doesn't have to be. I'd argue that Matt is starting from a massively higher baseline than Krillin. He wont be dealing with high-end threats after a month or two, but in the long term? Sure. I'm also not saying that he'd facetank Superman or anything, but that's not the bar one has to clear to be helpful dealing with planet-wrecking threats.

I completely spaced on the second part of King Kai and so on. I guess it's a long training session. I assumed it was the first Roshi boot camp experience only.

[Nik Hasta]

Why the limit at first Budokai? Krillin is a normal human and he's most definitely capable of dealing with planet-busters by now. He's not a scratch on Goku and Vegeta of course, but doesn't have to be. I'd argue that Matt is starting from a massively higher baseline than Krillin. He wont be dealing with high-end threats after a month or two, but in the long term? Sure. I'm also not saying that he'd facetank Superman or anything, but that's not the bar one has to clear to be helpful dealing with planet-wrecking threats.

I mean how long term are we talking?

Krillen is what... assuming he's the same age as Goku then he's 12 when he starts training with Roshi? There's then 12 years between then and the start of Z when Goku goes to King Kai because Goku is 24 at the start of Z when Goku goes off to train with King Kai.

It's worth noting that Krillen doesn't become "capable of dealing with a planet buster," at any point in the events of Z as far as I can tell, neither does Tien who trains much harder and more seriously than Krillen does, so perhaps he's a better analogue than Daredevil. And that's on a timeline of... about 25 years wherein Krillen, Tien and Yamcha remain largely inconsequential and do not blow up any planets nor handle anyone who can.

Are you perhaps working on the basis that Krillen gets grandfathered into the "above Z-era Frieza" bracket by virtue of being able to do literally anything of worth during the events of Super? This takes place... well, the series starts when Goku is 41 that's an additional 5 years or so from the end of Z and about 30 years from when he was training with Roshi.

So yeah, give Matt the ability to tap into DBZ ki powers and tell him to train for fully 30 years? Sure, he can probably hit some level of consequence but then I feel like on that timescale and a good attitude to training, most characters could do it. But given the Roshi boot camp and some ambiguous amount of time with King Kai, I don't see him getting that far.

[Jcogginsa]

I mean how long term are we talking?

Krillen is what... assuming he's the same age as Goku then he's 12 when he starts training with Roshi? There's then 12 years between then and the start of Z when Goku goes to King Kai because Goku is 24 at the start of Z when Goku goes off to train with King Kai.

It's worth noting that Krillen doesn't become "capable of dealing with a planet buster," at any point in the events of Z as far as I can tell, neither does Tien who trains much harder and more seriously than Krillen does, so perhaps he's a better analogue than Daredevil. And that's on a timeline of... about 25 years wherein Krillen, Tien and Yamcha remain largely inconsequential and do not blow up any planets nor handle anyone who can.

Are you perhaps working on the basis that Krillen gets grandfathered into the "above Z-era Frieza" bracket by virtue of being able to do literally anything of worth during the events of Super? This takes place... well, the series starts when Goku is 41 that's an additional 5 years or so from the end of Z and about 30 years from when he was training with Roshi.

So yeah, give Matt the ability to tap into DBZ ki powers and tell him to train for fully 30 years? Sure, he can probably hit some level of consequence but then I feel like on that timescale and a good attitude to training, most characters could do it. But given the Roshi boot camp and some ambiguous amount of time with King Kai, I don't see him getting that far.

Super implies that Base Goku is below Frieza's level during his first life, so that would preclude Krillin from being stronger than Frieza.

That being said, Vegeta claims to be a planet buster in the Saiyan Saga (and backs it up in filler) so if he's the bench mark then yeah, Krillin should definitely be a planet buster.

As for time, It must be noted that Krillin is not like Goku, and does not consistently train to improve. He typically only does so when he's got a goal to strive for, and after Cell he full on retires to be a family man. Matt I imagine would be more dedicated to getting stronger than he is

[The Drunkard Kid]

Super implies that Base Goku is below Frieza's level during his first life, so that would preclude Krillin from being stronger than Frieza.

That being said, Vegeta claims to be a planet buster in the Saiyan Saga (and backs it up in filler) so if he's the bench mark then yeah, Krillin should definitely be a planet buster.

As for time, It must be noted that Krillin is not like Goku, and does not consistently train to improve. He typically only does so when he's got a goal to strive for, and after Cell he full on retires to be a family man. Matt I imagine would be more dedicated to getting stronger than he is

Considering that base Vegeta was claiming to be strong enough to be able to beat Piccolo and #18 during the Buu Saga without going SSJ and isn't really the type to bluff about that kinda thing despite his arrogance (especially since there's no point in doing so when the people in question can sense his power level), I don't know how much credence I would give the claim that base Goku was weaker than Frieza in his first life, since even Mecha-Frieza was essentially a gnat to them.

Similarly, before Super I don't think that there's any implication that Kuririn ever stopped training during the downtime, especially since the wife he was a family man with was something of a battle maniac herself and was breaking out ki-sensing and the Kienzan by the time that the Buu saga came about, which she presumably learned from her hubby.

[Rightoya]

Uh even if we make the assumption that Krillin was a planet wrecker during the Buu saga, the peak humans just get training from Roshi and King Kai, not their potential unlocked by Grand Elder Guru or Android 18 who would eat planet wreckers like Frieza for breakfast as a sparring partner.

[Laevatein]

Can we throw Cassandra Cain in here?

[Sharpandpointies]

Which version? Original flavor Cass or current cutesy Cass?

[The MunchKING]

I mean how long term are we talking?

Krillen is what... assuming he's the same age as Goku then he's 12 when he starts training with Roshi?

They say at their first Tenkiichi Boudakai that he's one year older than Goku, because of COURSE Goku was to be the youngest guy to compete ever. :P



Also I'm not sure ANY of them are ANIME enough to handle even Roshi's base training. Can Batman run faster than a T-Rex over long periods of time? Can he SKIP faster than a T-Rex can run??

[Sharpandpointies]

Also I'm not sure ANY of them are ANIME enough to handle even Roshi's base training. Can Batman run faster than a T-Rex over long periods of time? Can he SKIP faster than a T-Rex can run??

This does sound excessive, even for Cass. I mean, I'm sure she can outrun a tyrannosaurus for a long time, but skipping faster than one? Nope.

[The MunchKING]

I just looked it up, the skipping bit was actually separate from the "outrun a T-Rex" bit. but then there's the "Plow all these giant fields with your bare hands". and stuff. and all this only supposed to take a few hours.

EDIT: Oh, and swimming faster than a man-eating shark while you do laps in a lake/inlet thing. Dodging bees (Which I think the Amazons already proved DC people have trouble with. ) while tied to a tree, etc.