Are the days of creativity and innovation over for Spider-Man?

[Kevinroc]

https://www.youtube.com/live/CCP79dc...e=share&t=4096

At about an hour and eight minutes into the video, ComicPop's Sal discusses the current state of Spider-Man comics. At about an hour and twenty minutes in, Sal states that he doesn't think Spider-Man is capable of being creatively satisfying anymore. That it can be like bubblegum or popcorn, but the days of creativity and innovation are over for that book.

Is he right? Is Spider-Man doomed to eternal stagnation and mediocrity?

[PCN24454]

Well, if all people do is obsess over his romantic life then I’d say yes.

[Mister Mets]

I doubt it.

There are limits when working on a series that is meant to be handed over soon enough to another creative team, where there is an obligation not to break the toys. Within those constraints, the writers and artists can still do good work.

It's also likely that there will be structural changes in the future. What works right now might not be the case five years from now.

[Frontier]

I don't agree, although this does remind me that Nick Spencer's run, as much as I enjoyed it, was mostly spent cleaning/fixing stuff up or tidying stuff fans were complaining about and hitting on some "greatest hits" type stuff than doing anything really new or innovative with the book.

[Vortex85]

Creativity and innovation can persist forever in Spider-Man in some aspects, in others, not so much. Same for all cape comics that never end.

[PCN24454]

I don't agree, although this does remind me that Nick Spencer's run, as much as I enjoyed it, was mostly spent cleaning/fixing stuff up or tidying stuff fans were complaining about and hitting on some "greatest hits" type stuff than doing anything really new or innovative with the book.

“Illusion of change” at its finest. Nothing actually happened in his run.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

No. Even if you argue that Marvel will never undo OMD and that we are stuck with an uncreative status quo, Spider-Man will eventually be public domain.

[Alan2099]

https://www.youtube.com/live/CCP79dc...e=share&t=4096

At about an hour and eight minutes into the video, ComicPop's Sal discusses the current state of Spider-Man comics. At about an hour and twenty minutes in, Sal states that he doesn't think Spider-Man is capable of being creatively satisfying anymore. That it can be like bubblegum or popcorn, but the days of creativity and innovation are over for that book.

Is he right? Is Spider-Man doomed to eternal stagnation and mediocrity?

No.

...

Well that was an easy one. Any other questions?

[RJT]

No. Even if you argue that Marvel will never undo OMD and that we are stuck with an uncreative status quo, Spider-Man will eventually be public domain.

Public domain doesn’t mean Marvel doesn’t get to keep making Spider-Man comics—so I don’t know who is going to be buying these public domain “Man with Arachnid Powers” comics (since trademark doesn’t ever expire if in use, so nobody will be able to publish comics called “Spider-Man”) so it’s weird you guys keep bringing this up. Nothing’s really stopping you from writing your own Spider-Man fan fiction.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I do think 2010-2017 was unique in how creatively bankrupt Spider-Man was. That's probably the only time that Spider-Man sucked in all mediums for as long as it did. At least during the Clone Saga and Byrne/Mackie era, we had Spider-Man TAS, which was the first "serious" thing done with Spidey outside the comics. And even though it doesn't hold up as well now, it was groundbreaking back then.

2008-2017 wasn't just a bad time for Spider-Man comics. Once Spectacular ended in 2009 and Ultimate Peter died in 2011, there was nothing good with Peter anywhere. Sony dropped the ball with the TASM films (and later the MCU dropped the ball with Spider-Man) while Quesada's cartoons were some of the worst superhero cartoons of all time. Miles Morales and the other new Spider-Heroes were a success, but as far as Peter is concerned, he went through a "void decade" just like the X-Men.

2018 was a game changer, though.

[Spider-Tiger]

I do think 2010-2017 was unique in how creatively bankrupt Spider-Man was. That's probably the only time that Spider-Man sucked in all mediums for as long as it did. At least during the Clone Saga and Byrne/Mackie era, we had Spider-Man TAS, which was the first "serious" thing done with Spidey outside the comics. And even though it doesn't hold up as well now, it was groundbreaking back then.

2008-2017 wasn't just a bad time for Spider-Man comics. Once Spectacular ended in 2009 and Ultimate Peter died in 2011, there was nothing good with Peter anywhere. Sony dropped the ball with the TASM films (and later the MCU dropped the ball with Spider-Man) while Quesada's cartoons were some of the worst superhero cartoons of all time. Miles Morales and the other new Spider-Heroes were a success, but as far as Peter is concerned, he went through a "void decade" just like the X-Men.

2018 was a game changer, though.

I think this is specifically referring to Spider-man comics as opposed to Spider-Man in other media.

https://www.youtube.com/live/CCP79dc...e=share&t=4096

At about an hour and eight minutes into the video, ComicPop's Sal discusses the current state of Spider-Man comics. At about an hour and twenty minutes in, Sal states that he doesn't think Spider-Man is capable of being creatively satisfying anymore. That it can be like bubblegum or popcorn, but the days of creativity and innovation are over for that book.

Is he right? Is Spider-Man doomed to eternal stagnation and mediocrity?

Not entirely. I think part of that innovation requires Marvel removing some of the limitations that have been placed on the book and introducing new young writers and artists that aren't just recycled from previous eras.

[NC_Yankee]

https://www.youtube.com/live/CCP79dc...e=share&t=4096

At about an hour and eight minutes into the video, ComicPop's Sal discusses the current state of Spider-Man comics. At about an hour and twenty minutes in, Sal states that he doesn't think Spider-Man is capable of being creatively satisfying anymore. That it can be like bubblegum or popcorn, but the days of creativity and innovation are over for that book.

Is he right? Is Spider-Man doomed to eternal stagnation and mediocrity?

This is not just a problem with Spider-Man it is a problem with the entertainment industry in general. Look at the films nominated for Oscars. Most of which people have not seen and especially do not want to see. Yet Hollywood keeps on giving the public films they do not care about awards. Another is a remake of Matlock, they are just changing the gender. Who really is looking forward to a rehash of Matlock? This is exactly the problem with Spider-Man post OMD and especially during the Wells run. They do not care what the public thinks ( see Brevoort’s infamous comparison of Spider-Man to medicine. Basically we have to read and buy the comic because somehow it is good for us). Until they stop being so arrogant and get back to making TV shows, films, comics, music etc that most people care about nothing will change.

[Prime]

Honestly yeah I think so. As it is now. Spiderman is stagnation

[Lee]

I do think 2010-2017 was unique in how creatively bankrupt Spider-Man was.

2008-2017 wasn't just a bad time for Spider-Man comics. Once Spectacular ended in 2009 and Ultimate Peter died in 2011, there was nothing good with Peter anywhere.

I think you just didn't like it. Whether you think something is good or bad isn't relevant to how creative or innovative it was.

They revitalised the supporting cast and villains in Brand New Day, had new takes on classic characters (Mayor J Jonah Jameson, Agent Venom etc.), added a whole new corner to Spider-Man's world with Horizon Labs in Big Time, then had a lot of big and bold story arcs like Superior Spider-Man, Spider-Verse and Worldwide/Parker Industries. Whether you liked it or not, they were undeniably doing new stuff and adding to the mythos of the series.

And I don't think any era of Spider-Man that has multiple Marcos Martin stories can be called creatively bankrupt. Every single one of his pages is a masterpiece. He's one of the most interesting and innovative artists to have every worked on the series.

What were the new additions and innovations in the Spider-Man comics of 2018-2023?

At least during the Clone Saga and Byrne/Mackie era, we had Spider-Man TAS

The Spider-Man cartoon's final episode aired 31 January 1998. John Byrne joined the Spider-Man titles late 1998.

[Frontier]

“Illusion of change” at its finest. Nothing actually happened in his run.

I wouldn't say that so much as there probably wasn't big, sweeping, changes made. Stuff happened but it was mostly cleanup and fixing things that were broken and writing characters better.

I do think 2010-2017 was unique in how creatively bankrupt Spider-Man was. That's probably the only time that Spider-Man sucked in all mediums for as long as it did. At least during the Clone Saga and Byrne/Mackie era, we had Spider-Man TAS, which was the first "serious" thing done with Spidey outside the comics. And even though it doesn't hold up as well now, it was groundbreaking back then.

2008-2017 wasn't just a bad time for Spider-Man comics. Once Spectacular ended in 2009 and Ultimate Peter died in 2011, there was nothing good with Peter anywhere. Sony dropped the ball with the TASM films (and later the MCU dropped the ball with Spider-Man) while Quesada's cartoons were some of the worst superhero cartoons of all time. Miles Morales and the other new Spider-Heroes were a success, but as far as Peter is concerned, he went through a "void decade" just like the X-Men.

2018 was a game changer, though.

Ultimate was pretty weak in it's earlier seasons but it basically became adequate to solid in it's later seasons even if it was far from the best Spider-Man cartoon.