Are the days of creativity and innovation over for Spider-Man?

[PCN24454]

I feel like we discussed this before and are going in circles. To sum up what I said in the past:

1. There is no reason to assume an ongoing Spider-Man comic has to have an ending. If Marvel thinks it does, that assumption is based on dated beliefs and should be questioned.

2. If someone found a way to do OMD that felt natural (meaning it was in-character for Peter and MJ and also didn't feel like a Crisis reboot), then OMD would have been fine.

3. Yes, post-OMD comics would have been fine/better if there was change and growth (like you say). But there wasn't.

4. I want the books to be character-driven again and for Peter to not feel like an action figure, which (other than a 3-year respite from Spencer), has not been the case.

How was Spencer’s run different from the others?

[Kaitou D. Kid]

How was Spencer’s run different from the others?

There was at least an attempt to tell a character-driven story.

[Tapioca Blitzkrieg]

There was at least an attempt to tell a character-driven story.

I agree, like the run as a whole or not, Spencer to me clearly had one over Slott and Wells when it came to writing the characters he brought to the book as being distinct and having their own voice as oposed to just reacting to the random shennanigans writers came up with every arc.

[Iclifton]

https://www.youtube.com/live/CCP79dc...e=share&t=4096

At about an hour and eight minutes into the video, ComicPop's Sal discusses the current state of Spider-Man comics. At about an hour and twenty minutes in, Sal states that he doesn't think Spider-Man is capable of being creatively satisfying anymore. That it can be like bubblegum or popcorn, but the days of creativity and innovation are over for that book.

Is he right? Is Spider-Man doomed to eternal stagnation and mediocrity?

This is how Ive felt since OMD. What was appealing about Peter was seeing him deal with his personal life and watching it grow and evolve. He felt like a real person.

TBH I would have preferred a divorce over what we got. At least then we would see Peter deal with a real issue that plenty of people go through. Now Peter is stuck in a holding a pattern and the character is stagnant. The best we can hope for is short reprieves with temporary status quo shifts that make the book feel fresh (Superior Spiderman) or good elseworld stories.

Bring back Ultimate Peter!

[PCN24454]

I agree, like the run as a whole or not, Spencer to me clearly had one over Slott and Wells when it came to writing the characters he brought to the book as being distinct and having their own voice as oposed to just reacting to the random shennanigans writers came up with every arc.

That’s literally what Spencer’s run was: characters reacting to random shenanigans.

[Tapioca Blitzkrieg]

That’s literally what Spencer’s run was: characters reacting to random shenanigans.

Might have felt that way to you, but i thought they were pretty well written even if the story got sloggy or overbooked sometimes. I binged his run in two or three big round-ups so i didn't feel that put off by what's been considered to be his more pressing pacing issues back then.

[Ravin' Ray]

Unlike all of the other She-Hulk romance, with Parker, it would open a lot to story telling potential.

Wow I missed this until now. So what you're saying, at least in your own worldview, is that Jen's relationships with Wyatt Wingfoot, John Jameson, Thor Odinson, and Jack of Hearts, and others all inherently suffer from lack of potential quality as compared to a Jen/Peter romance, no matter how hard a writer tries?

I feel sorry for the writers of those other relationships. All their work, automatically judged inferior to a Jen/Peter story.

[exile001]

Wow I missed this until now. So what you're saying, at least in your own worldview, is that Jen's relationships with Wyatt Wingfoot, John Jameson, Thor Odinson, and Jack of Hearts, and others all inherently suffer from lack of potential quality as compared to a Jen/Peter romance, no matter how hard a writer tries?

I feel sorry for the writers of those other relationships. All their work, automatically judged inferior to a Jen/Peter story.

Nah, Darthfury78's a gem.

I'm pretty sure they have a massive tombola full of Marvel character names and, regardless of how nonsensical, will fight to the death that this month's random pick should be an integral part of Spidey's world.

[Darthfury78]

Wow I missed this until now. So what you're saying, at least in your own worldview, is that Jen's relationships with Wyatt Wingfoot, John Jameson, Thor Odinson, and Jack of Hearts, and others all inherently suffer from lack of potential quality as compared to a Jen/Peter romance, no matter how hard a writer tries?

I feel sorry for the writers of those other relationships. All their work, automatically judged inferior to a Jen/Peter story.

Too much is tied to Jennifer's past relationships. None of She-Hulk's romance has led towards stories where the partner who also (works as both a lawyer and scientist) has a large following of readers to support the series.

[Ravin' Ray]

Too much is tied to the past.

Which a good writer can "rectify".

None of She-Hulk's romance has led towards stories where the partner who also works as both a lawyer and scientist..

Going off-topic with this thread, but you're limiting actually limiting Jen's partners to a lawyer/scientist? Whatever happened to out of the box suggestions for other sorts of partners who would be equally interesting.

Again, this is all in your worldview, and you are perfectly entitled to it. But it's far from the only one, and others deserve attention too.

Edit: For the sake of other posters, you added the "has a large following of readers to support the series." part afterwards.

[Darthfury78]

Which a good writer can "rectify".

Going off-topic with this thread, but you're limiting actually limiting Jen's partners to a lawyer/scientist? Whatever happened to out of the box suggestions for other sorts of partners who would be equally interesting.

Again, this is all in your worldview, and you are perfectly entitled to it. But it's far from the only one, and others deserve attention too.

Edit: For the sake of other posters, you added the "has a large following of readers to support the series." part afterwards.

The question is has anyone of Jenn's past relationships worked as both a lawyer and scientist who has a strong following to generate strong sales figures in their own self titled series? Yes, Jenn has been with Tony Stark and a few others. But none of them has shared both the legal and scientific sides to her work detail. Gotta create a situation that no one will see coming that would get more readers to buy the She-Hulk series to match the sales figures for Amazing Spider-Man..

[marhawkman]

I honestly think most of them were just... one-time flings that were never a real romantic relationship.

[Ravin' Ray]

And with that… we're closing the conversation on yet another inexplicable She-Hulk relationship to focus on the topic: Spider-Man.

[Lukmendes]

I wonder if Batman fans ever complain that all he ever does is hangs out with Alfred and fights Joker and Clayface

They must, right? ...Right?

Batman fans sometimes complain about Joker showing up way too much.

Wow I missed this until now. So what you're saying, at least in your own worldview, is that Jen's relationships with Wyatt Wingfoot, John Jameson, Thor Odinson, and Jack of Hearts, and others all inherently suffer from lack of potential quality as compared to a Jen/Peter romance, no matter how hard a writer tries?

She dated John Jameson? Lol.

I feel sorry for the writers of those other relationships. All their work, automatically judged inferior to a Jen/Peter story.

A hypothetical Spidey/Jen story too lol.

Nah, Darthfury78's a gem.

I'm pretty sure they have a massive tombola full of Marvel character names and, regardless of how nonsensical, will fight to the death that this month's random pick should be an integral part of Spidey's world.

There was this one time he tried to say that Natasha should be part of Spidey's world instead of Teresa because Natasha has a deeper connection with Spidey's parents.

Natasha, who's not even implied to have met them, has a deeper connection with Spidey's parents than Teresa, who at the time was 100% confirmed to be Spidey's sister.

Was so baffling, and I'm probably never forgetting this.

The question is has anyone of Jenn's past relationships worked as both a lawyer and scientist who has a strong following to generate strong sales figures in their own self titled series? Yes, Jenn has been with Tony Stark and a few others. But none of them has shared both the legal and scientific sides to her work detail.

Did Spidey become a lawyer while I wasn't looking?

Gotta create a situation that no one will see coming that would get more readers to buy the She-Hulk series to match the sales figures for Amazing Spider-Man..

That's not gonna happen, Spidey sells that much because he's Spider-Man, other heroes can at best get a similar level of sales under a really good writer.

Then again, why do I bother? This must be like the third time I point this out to you lol.

Anyways, answer to this thread's question is still "yes".

[Darthfury78]

That's not gonna happen, Spidey sells that much because he's Spider-Man, other heroes can at best get a similar level of sales under a really good writer.

Then again, why do I bother? This must be like the third time I point this out to you lol.

Anyways, answer to this thread's question is still "yes".

Spider-Man brings a large following. If Peter Parker appears as a reoccuing guest who helps Jennifer with her court cases and crime fighting upgrades(to use her gamma powers), we could see a strong sales increase for the She-Hulk series. While Spider-Man isn't needed to help She-Hulk, Peter Parker(civilian guise) could help Jennifer with some of her court cases and research. This could tie Peter with The Hulk Family where he finally get to work with Rick Jones, Betty Ross, and Bruce Banner. One branch leads to another. The lack of migration of other characters is what's killing comics in general because of the segreation of characters to their respective Editoial Department.