Superman in the Public Domain Discussion Thread

[Zagre]

Will Marvel have the guts to capitalize on it? :P Because it'd be hilarious.

It will mostly just be people using Superman himself to rape and murder others instead of settling for an expy like Homelander. That’s what I expect, but we may still get the odd project which is actually good.

So Brightburn, but with Clark? :P

[Ascended]

I'm just saying if you identified a superhero that I actively disliked and then said I could write whatever story about that character without threat of getting sued, I know I can make a story so bad it'd piss off every fan!

If you were making the story with the intent of getting paid, then you're in the same boat as DC's creatives and their editors and the craft will have to be structured in a way that those people think will sell to the intended audience.

Yes, you could take domain Superman and write an awful story because you hate Superman. Are you going to advertise it out of your own pocket? Fund the creation of it yourself? Just to take a dump on the IP?

Even if you are, WB itself has already beaten you to the punch. Injustice. Snyder's JL plans. And those are big, expensive investments. You call this "protection from worse ideas" but there's not much worse that could be done. Injustice had Clark murder his wife and kid and become a tyrant, Snyder wanted to cuck Clark and have him raise Bruce and Lois' love child. Creators could sink a little lower, but only a little. If this is DC's idea of protecting Clark, then I say it's protection we don't need.

We won't get "F you Superman!" stories. We'll get weird crap, like Blood and Honey, because somebody will think the novelty will sell. And it will, for five seconds, and then the product will sink into obscurity. Which we already get, with stuff like Brightburn. Again, nothing changes except the potential to get new voices, good *and* bad, and a vision that isn't solely DC's. What do we risk? Some products being made that we don't want to see, that canon doesn't demand we follow? So what?

I'm guessing you didn't watch Brightburn. If it had been called "Superman Murders Everyone" would you have watched it? Probably not, right? Then you've nothing to lose from Clark going public. The stuff that comes from domain Superman, you can ignore or consume, based on your tastes, and all that changes is you have a wider menu to pick from, instead of whatever DC alone offers you.

So overall, it might feel the same on average, but I think we're going to sink to new lows.

Probably. But new heights too.

[Zagre]

I mean, there's already fanfics and Fan Films. There's already public domain characters with a lot of crappy stories whose reputation is mostly fine And that's what will happen if Supes ever enters the PD. You'll see some crappy takes that will get some traction at first because "oh my god look at what they're making Superman DO!" and then after a few years the crappy stuff will simply be forgotten and creators will be able to do whatever they want. If anything, the fact that he'd be PD and thus have a lot more content going for him would force those creators to work harder to make their version of Superman stand out in a good way.

I remember things like BBC's Sherlock, Coppola's Dracula or even Disney's Hercules because those teams put in the work to make their versions of those characters notable while at least trying to make a quality product (and hey, this time Disney will be able to do that Superman movie they wwanted to do with Hercules), I don't remember the infinite crappy versions of those character people made on a 5$ dollar budget.

[Thor-Ul]

Will Marvel have the guts to capitalize on it? :P Because it'd be hilarious.

Yes it would be, but I doubt they do it. Marvel ins in the same boat: they have the same problem with their GA characters and using Superman in any capacity would be a pass for DC to use Human Torch, Captain America and Bucky just two years later.

[Ascended]

Plus Marvel is in a position of dominance, they have big name, high-selling IP that outperforms most of DC's stuff and have little need of Superman's brand power....which they'd likely view as being free advertising for DC, regardless of which publisher is on the cover.

I won't be surprised to see an indie like Image or Dark Horse take a stab at it though; they'd actually benefit from Clark's name recognition and have the freedom to be experimental in a way Marvel likely doesn't.

Anyone else remember the early days of Image when it was essentially all just poorly disguised versions of Marvel and DC heroes working together? It's gonna be a trip when Captain America, Namor, Torch, and other Marvels hit the domain and you can get that kind of crossover "for real."

[DochaDocha]

If you were making the story with the intent of getting paid, then you're in the same boat as DC's creatives and their editors and the craft will have to be structured in a way that those people think will sell to the intended audience.

Yes, you could take domain Superman and write an awful story because you hate Superman. Are you going to advertise it out of your own pocket? Fund the creation of it yourself? Just to take a dump on the IP?

Even if you are, WB itself has already beaten you to the punch. Injustice. Snyder's JL plans. And those are big, expensive investments. You call this "protection from worse ideas" but there's not much worse that could be done. Injustice had Clark murder his wife and kid and become a tyrant, Snyder wanted to cuck Clark and have him raise Bruce and Lois' love child. Creators could sink a little lower, but only a little. If this is DC's idea of protecting Clark, then I say it's protection we don't need.

We won't get "F you Superman!" stories. We'll get weird crap, like Blood and Honey, because somebody will think the novelty will sell. And it will, for five seconds, and then the product will sink into obscurity. Which we already get, with stuff like Brightburn. Again, nothing changes except the potential to get new voices, good *and* bad, and a vision that isn't solely DC's. What do we risk? Some products being made that we don't want to see, that canon doesn't demand we follow? So what?

I'm guessing you didn't watch Brightburn. If it had been called "Superman Murders Everyone" would you have watched it? Probably not, right? Then you've nothing to lose from Clark going public. The stuff that comes from domain Superman, you can ignore or consume, based on your tastes, and all that changes is you have a wider menu to pick from, instead of whatever DC alone offers you.

That is correct, I haven't watched Brightburn and so I can't compare.

I don't think anyone would spend a lot of money on a movie just to say Eff U, Superman. I just think in general without having exclusive use of the character there's less motivation to do anything high budget. I think it's part of securing funding for a movie, selling to your investors that the brand is valuable and that "when" this movie succeeds you're going to bring in this amount of money and be able to do cross promotions and such. Disney built large parts of the entertainment empire off the backs of PD fairy tales but I think they largely avoid using such characters anymore.

I don't see blockbusters as the pinnacle of storytelling, but for superheroes they still sort of the highest marker for success. The indy scene will do fine but I think the window is closing on Superman and big-budget blockbusters. I'll be happy if a lot of people who love Superman will now be free to publish their own Superman stories, but as I mentioned earlier I think we lost a lot of the older generation who would've done this. I hope I'm wrong.

EDIT: I do, however, look forward to the chance that a lot of brilliant and passionate creators who'd otherwise be restricted from writing good Superman stories will get a chance to release their work commercially.

[Ascended]

That is correct, I haven't watched Brightburn and so I can't compare.

Neither have I, and that *is* the comparison my friend. We didn't watch Brightburn because it didn't appeal to us, and as Super fans, I bet neither of us felt like we were missing out on anything. Domain Clark will be like that. Random dude makes a product that doesn't sound good to you? Skip it, never think about it again. Other dude makes something that sounds intriguing? Now you have a new story to check out, on top of the regular DC Superman.

Look at it like this; in ten years, maybe, everyone on earth will get the license to create their own Elseworld story. Get it or skip it, doesn't matter, doesn't impact the "core" version, it's just an extra dish you can order off the menu *if* it looks appetizing.

I don't see blockbusters as the pinnacle of storytelling, but for superheroes they still sort of the highest marker for success. The indy scene will do fine but I think the window is closing on Superman and big-budget blockbusters.

If you're right and the big budget blockbuster is dying, then it doesn't matter anyway. And WB will still rule the big movie scene regardless, they've got the money to invest in that sorta thing the rest of us don't. Let 'em keep it, and their bloated Hollywood budgets. I'm not looking at domain Clark and expecting some massive cgi spectacle of a movie, I'm looking at it and expecting novels, comics, streaming, all of it on a smaller budget than what WB might put into a big movie, but OG Clark doesn't require a ton of cash to pull off anyway.

I think we lost a lot of the older generation who would've done this. I hope I'm wrong.

Very much true. DC's mismanagement has left scars that'll take a long time to heal, and they turned off a lot of creative, bright minds. It'll be on the younger generation to carry the torch....and they're young, hungry, and pissed off at the state of the world. Just like OG Clark. I can't wait to see what they do with him.

[Johnny Thunders!]

1. Brightburn is great! It’s Dark Knights metal with Superman as the lead.
2. There are a ton of Superman types out there now. Public Domain would mean we could see television, cartoons, all kinds of Superman media. I hope Siegel and Shuster get to watch!

[manwhohaseverything]

I feel like we get plenty of voices on Superman now, but WB's Superman is the only Superman I've ever known.

Really?max fliescher cartoon?radio shows?tv shows?those aren't wb's superman things.There is 2 decades worth of super stories,both from comics and otherwise.

[DABellWrites]

Superman is protected under trademarks. WB/DC can make a good argument about why nobody else should use their version of the character, because their Superman is a cultural cornerstone of American culture and still a cultural phenomenon after nearly a century (so many damn pastiches are still popping up all over the place), that's a strong argument for the importance of their trademarks. "To keep the real icon at the forefront".


As for the Winnie the Pooh, it's only the red-shirt Disney version that's still under copyright. Disney has no control over the original story that has no red-shirt.

If you were making the story with the intent of getting paid, then you're in the same boat as DC's creatives and their editors and the craft will have to be structured in a way that those people think will sell to the intended audience.

Yes, you could take domain Superman and write an awful story because you hate Superman. Are you going to advertise it out of your own pocket? Fund the creation of it yourself? Just to take a dump on the IP?

Even if you are, WB itself has already beaten you to the punch. Injustice. Snyder's JL plans. And those are big, expensive investments. You call this "protection from worse ideas" but there's not much worse that could be done. Injustice had Clark murder his wife and kid and become a tyrant, Snyder wanted to cuck Clark and have him raise Bruce and Lois' love child. Creators could sink a little lower, but only a little. If this is DC's idea of protecting Clark, then I say it's protection we don't need.

We won't get "F you Superman!" stories. We'll get weird crap, like Blood and Honey, because somebody will think the novelty will sell. And it will, for five seconds, and then the product will sink into obscurity. Which we already get, with stuff like Brightburn. Again, nothing changes except the potential to get new voices, good *and* bad, and a vision that isn't solely DC's. What do we risk? Some products being made that we don't want to see, that canon doesn't demand we follow? So what?

I'm guessing you didn't watch Brightburn. If it had been called "Superman Murders Everyone" would you have watched it? Probably not, right? Then you've nothing to lose from Clark going public. The stuff that comes from domain Superman, you can ignore or consume, based on your tastes, and all that changes is you have a wider menu to pick from, instead of whatever DC alone offers you.



Probably. But new heights too.

I loved Brightburn. I didn't think too hard on it at all, which is why I loved it. Also, we got a real deal mother-son relationship that many actual Superman writer's often ignore.:P

[manwhohaseverything]

Superman is protected under trademarks. WB/DC can make a good argument about why nobody else should use their version of the character, because their Superman is a cultural cornerstone of American culture and still a cultural phenomenon after nearly a century (so many damn pastiches are still popping up all over the place), that's a strong argument for the importance of their trademarks. I've created two myself, okay maybe three.

But, we'll see.

Dc might be able to argue that.But,wb won't be(as said superman got into wb's catalogue in late 60s).That won't stand as parent company does all the movies and things.Therefore has vested interests .

[Ascended]

Superman is protected under trademarks. WB/DC can make a good argument about why nobody else should use their version of the character, because their Superman is a cultural cornerstone of American culture and still a cultural phenomenon after nearly a century (so many damn pastiches are still popping up all over the place), that's a strong argument for the importance of their trademarks. "To keep the real icon at the forefront".

As I've said, I'm not an expert. But I've read articles by experts (or at least folks who know more'n me), and they say the argument to extend copyright is weak and trademarks aren't enough to keep something out of the domain. Mostly it'd come down to stuff like having a new "S" shield, maybe a new tagline, since they're all still under active trademark, minor re-designs like that. I think of all the hurdles a public adaptation would have to jump, getting over the trademarks is probably among the easier tasks?

As for the Winnie the Pooh, it's only the red-shirt Disney version that's still under copyright. Disney has no control over the original story that has no red-shirt.

And if I understand things right, in about a decade WB won't have any control over the first year of Action, and any other Super material published in 1938. Being a cornerstone of culture or a primary source of income for a company/estate/entity doesn't appear to matter; once the copyright runs out, it's public. I've never heard of something being exempt, at least. But it's ten or so years away and if another extension doesn't sneak through at the last minute this year, we'll certainly see a lot of litigation and precedent will establish itself.

I loved Brightburn. I didn't think too hard on it at all, which is why I loved it. Also, we got a real deal mother-son relationship that many actual Superman writer's often ignore.:P

I hear it was good and I got no issue with the premise or anything. I just don't care much for the horror genre.

[Fire Angel]

Think of the beloved fictional characters who went public domain, Dracula, Frankenstein, Mad Hatter, Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde and all the good books, shows, movies and exedra with them in it because they are public domain.

I bet Superman would get much of the same respect when he is for everyone as they are now.

[Agent Z]

Think of the beloved fictional characters who went public domain, Dracula, Frankenstein, Mad Hatter, Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde and all the good books, shows, movies and exedra with them in it because they are public domain.

I bet Superman would get much of the same respect when he is for everyone as they are now.

Many if not most of those adaptations have been bad or mediocre. Superman being public domain doesn't mean he'll have more good movies and tv shows. It just means he'll have more adaptations, half of which are likely to be bad.

[bat39]

Will Marvel have the guts to capitalize on it? :P Because it'd be hilarious.



So Brightburn, but with Clark? :P

Yes it would be, but I doubt they do it. Marvel ins in the same boat: they have the same problem with their GA characters and using Superman in any capacity would be a pass for DC to use Human Torch, Captain America and Bucky just two years later.

I can see Marvel and DC having an unofficial agreement not to use each other's characters

Besides, Marvel using Superman would be a kind of moral victory for DC that their character is so big that even the competition rushed to use him the first chance they got...

Slightly off-topic, but Captain America would be another interesting case. Like, would the public domain version have to be set in WW2 because Marvel would still have the copyright on the version who made it to the present-day? Could a public domain version of Bucky grow up?