X-Men #20 - Review/Spoilers

[JB]

This is one of my favorite things in this era: The intertwining among the titles. I love when a plot thread gets tugged from one book into the next, and doubly so if it brings in characters from those other titles, however briefly that may be.

It's really fun. I feel rewarding if you're keeping up.

Agreed, I love the feeling of everything being so connected.

[cranger]

Duggan writing Emma in Marauders and then spotlighting her in Devil's Reign and now using her here again is not making everything connected. It is one writer who switched books. It is a writer having a character they want to write again which people often find annoying when it can mean the writer does not bother to put as much effort into the characters who are supposed to be starring in the title.

Note that I am clarifying the issue, not complaining myself.

[xhx23x]

Duggan writing Emma in Marauders and then spotlighting her in Devil's Reign and now using her here again is not making everything connected. It is one writer who switched books. It is a writer having a character they want to write again which people often find annoying when it can mean the writer does not bother to put as much effort into the characters who are supposed to be starring in the title.

Note that I am clarifying the issue, not complaining myself.

I mean, I get that big cast books are never going to satisfying to everyone because some characters will always have more panel time than others, but Emma here is just featured, not really the center of the story. The most time she's got in it was in the flashbacks and that was just as much about Elektra and setting up this story for Fisk. Emma's more of a plot device in the story to connect the council since she's also the one Scott and Jean are exchanging information with, as of the Gala. Emma is in the council. Krakoa taking in Fisk in is a very public potential scandal. The X-Men are the current public face. All of this has been set up even if you haven't read the other books, it just feels more if you have. And that's what we mean about connectivity.

Could he had done it without Emma? Sure, but I feel it makes the world seem bigger when the council people appear in all the books in some way or form. But I do get this is a millage may vary thing for a lot.

[loke13]

Duggan writing Emma in Marauders and then spotlighting her in Devil's Reign and now using her here again is not making everything connected. It is one writer who switched books. It is a writer having a character they want to write again which people often find annoying when it can mean the writer does not bother to put as much effort into the characters who are supposed to be starring in the title.

Note that I am clarifying the issue, not complaining myself.

Huh, that's some pretty weird gatekeeping of what constitutes as "connected" it doesn't matter if it comes from one writer or multiple writers. Duggan is using the X-Men book to tie together plot threads from his previous series/ issues.

[JB]

I mean, I get that big cast books are never going to satisfying to everyone because some characters will always have more panel time than others, but Emma here is just featured, not really the center of the story. The most time she's got in it was in the flashbacks and that was just as much about Elektra and setting up this story for Fisk. Emma's more of a plot device in the story to connect the council since she's also the one Scott and Jean are exchanging information with, as of the Gala. Emma is in the council. Krakoa taking in Fisk in is a very public potential scandal. The X-Men are the current public face. All of this has been set up even if you haven't read the other books, it just feels more if you have. And that's what we mean about connectivity.

Could he had done it without Emma? Sure, but I feel it makes the world seem bigger when the council people appear in all the books in some way or form. But I do get this is a millage may vary thing for a lot.

That's how I viewed it as well. Emma has mostly been handling the PR side of things in multiple books and has become the face of Krakoa at least to the media/public. Fisk on the island will likely be a public relations nightmare so she'll want to try to get ahead of it.

[Diammandis]

Duggan writing Emma in Marauders and then spotlighting her in Devil's Reign and now using her here again is not making everything connected. It is one writer who switched books. It is a writer having a character they want to write again which people often find annoying when it can mean the writer does not bother to put as much effort into the characters who are supposed to be starring in the title.

Note that I am clarifying the issue, not complaining myself.

given the history, he has established that Emma and Fisk have and the way their last encounter ended in Devil's Reign it makes sense to highlight her in this short sequence. I think it's pretty obvious that Duggan is going to tie in this Fisk/Emma plot point with either his X-Men book or possibly his Iron Man book which Emma is also slated to appear in.

But I definitely see what you're saying, I think it really all just depends on how Duggan is able to connect these plots to his books seamlessly, however, I really dont have much of a problem with it because as of now its really not like Emma is getting a huge feature in X-Men

I mean, I get that big cast books are never going to satisfying to everyone because some characters will always have more panel time than others, but Emma here is just featured, not really the center of the story. The most time she's got in it was in the flashbacks and that was just as much about Elektra and setting up this story for Fisk. Emma's more of a plot device in the story to connect the council since she's also the one Scott and Jean are exchanging information with, as of the Gala. Emma is in the council. Krakoa taking in Fisk in is a very public potential scandal. The X-Men are the current public face. All of this has been set up even if you haven't read the other books, it just feels more if you have. And that's what we mean about connectivity.

Could he had done it without Emma? Sure, but I feel it makes the world seem bigger when the council people appear in all the books in some way or form. But I do get this is a millage may vary thing for a lot.

I do have to somewhat disagree with this, Emma and Fisk relationship and connection was definitely forefront of the Devils Reign mini, with Emma possibly having a bigger role and focus in that story more than Fisk. I can def see why some people may be peeved, adding yet another character/plot point onto a book where most characters are already getting sidelined, but, I feel like Duggan can definitely make this work so I don't really see the need for all the fuss.

[cranger]

Huh, that's some pretty weird gatekeeping of what constitutes as "connected" it doesn't matter if it comes from one writer or multiple writers. Duggan is using the X-Men book to tie together plot threads from his previous series/ issues.

It is a shared universe and an ongoing title so of course plot points are going to carry over. I am not sure why you are fixated on that when my point was that the comment that got the ball rolling on how great the intertwining was had little do with the where the plot came from. It was partly the character Duggan chose to use and partly when he chose to bring this plot in while there were some criticisms with the story in this issue feeling very choppy.

The way you throw around the word "gatekeeping" though is what is pretty weird, not gonna lie.

given the history, he has established that Emma and Fisk have and the way their last encounter ended in Devil's Reign it makes sense to highlight her in this short sequence. I think it's pretty obvious that Duggan is going to tie in this Fisk/Emma plot point with either his X-Men book or possibly his Iron Man book which Emma is also slated to appear in.

But I definitely see what you're saying, I think it really all just depends on how Duggan is able to connect these plots to his books seamlessly, however, I really dont have much of a problem with it because as of now its really not like Emma is getting a huge feature in X-Men

Honestly I do not mind it. I am actually liking the way the last two issues are structured with the "big" story of the Brood bringing the action and danger, the "mystery" of Forge and Monet slowly being revealed, and then the "surprise" twist of Kingpin. I just thought there were some criticisms that felt fair that got misunderstood or something.

[loke13]

It is a shared universe and an ongoing title so of course plot points are going to carry over. I am not sure why you are fixated on that when my point was that the comment that got the ball rolling on how great the intertwining was had little do with the where the plot came from. It was partly the character Duggan chose to use and partly when he chose to bring this plot in while there were some criticisms with the story in this issue feeling very choppy.

The way you throw around the word "gatekeeping" though is what is pretty weird, not gonna lie.

I "fixated" on it because you brought it? That and you keep trying to double down and differentiate the two as if one is more legitimate then the other. It just sounds like you're splitting hairs to me. But hey I said my piece carry on.

[Diammandis]

With the introduction of Kingpin, this can open up some interesting stories with him and Talon

[davetvs]

Why do we always have to listen to the same whiny arguments about Emma being around like she hasn't been one of the franchise's most relevant characters for the past 20 years? Let it go already.

[Devaishwarya]

given the history, he has established that Emma and Fisk have and the way their last encounter ended in Devil's Reign it makes sense to highlight her in this short sequence. I think it's pretty obvious that Duggan is going to tie in this Fisk/Emma plot point with either his X-Men book or possibly his Iron Man book which Emma is also slated to appear in.

But I definitely see what you're saying, I think it really all just depends on how Duggan is able to connect these plots to his books seamlessly, however, I really dont have much of a problem with it because as of now its really not like Emma is getting a huge feature in X-Men



I do have to somewhat disagree with this, Emma and Fisk relationship and connection was definitely forefront of the Devils Reign mini, with Emma possibly having a bigger role and focus in that story more than Fisk. I can def see why some people may be peeved, adding yet another character/plot point onto a book where most characters are already getting sidelined, but, I feel like Duggan can definitely make this work so I don't really see the need for all the fuss.

Except it didn't feel like anyone on the X-Men were being side-lined...not to me anyway.
Jean and Magik were with Broo and encountered Nightmare.
Forge was in Space somewhere with Monet (guest star)
Scott, Synch, Talon, Firestar and Bobby were rescuing some people from the Brood...which tied into what Jean and Magik discovered earlier.

If anything...I'd say Duggan is getting better and better at actually seeding new plots while addressing the current one. Claremont should feel proud.

[Devaishwarya]

Why do we always have to listen to the same whiny arguments about Emma being around like she hasn't been one of the franchise's most relevant characters for the past 20 years? Let it go already.

As well as major part of Duggan's Marauders run, in this era.

[Diammandis]

Except it didn't feel like anyone on the X-Men were being side-lined...not to me anyway.
Jean and Magik were with Broo and encountered Nightmare.
Forge was in Space somewhere with Monet (guest star)
Scott, Synch, Talon, Firestar and Bobby were rescuing some people from the Brood...which tied into what Jean and Magik discovered earlier.

If anything...I'd say Duggan is getting better and better at actually seeding new plots while addressing the current one. Claremont should feel proud.

I didn't feel like it either but characters getting sidelined or not getting enough attention has been a very big complaint i have been seeing regarding his series overall. He has all his characters doing something, i think the only complaint i have is the characterizations of Jean, Iceman and Scott who were just way too mean this issue

[cranger]

With the introduction of Kingpin, this can open up some interesting stories with him and Talon

I feel like the immediate plot will be dealing with Emma, but this could be setting up more stuff to be picked up during or leading up to Fall of X. In the meantime, after all she has seen and done I'd love it if she just brushed him off as if he was nobody.

[Hulkout42]

I didn't feel like it either but characters getting sidelined or not getting enough attention has been a very big complaint i have been seeing regarding his series overall. He has all his characters doing something, i think the only complaint i have is the characterizations of Jean, Iceman and Scott who were just way too mean this issue

Well i won't deny there was plenty of meanness going around, like at the very start Cyclops throwing shade at the Avengers with the whole we don't wait for the bodies to drop (even though they have in the past so really that made no sense) but the whole let's kill the whole of the Brood when he let Brood continue to exist after Broo took the "crown" is a 180, though that can be attributed to his Dad getting preggo with Brood babies and then cut open.

Iceman being mean is rare, only saw him get that nasty in one of the few appearances in Marauders where he mauled the mercs on the boat that later came back as Reavers, but since the brood aren't human and rampaging that is again justified given the situation.

Jean being mean...yeah i got nothing on that one, i'm sure the Jean fans on the forum will give a reason so i leave that to them. Personally i have seen her keep her cool during several crisis so having her "i wasn't asking" stance was a bit weird for me, more because i expected that Magik would be the Bad Cop, instead she is all Broo Bro and then going gaga over Broodlings dance to the beat of Thriller and dancing on the beach while a threat is going on.

Though i got wonder, is Broo's control limited by range? I mean he has a bunch with him under his command but he can't from LY away then? And i can only imagine he doesn't know that they were on killing sprees because well Nightmare is a pretty OP villain but i do find it odd that the kid who tried to be more heroic decided to go the Punisher route with the slavers instead of having them locked up by the Nova's or Shiar, it's not that i am against what he did to the Slavers but rather that he took that stance since he was pretty against that in earlier runs.

And well, here is the next questions...say Cyclops decides that the genocide route is to be taken, anyone here think Broo will be ok with that? And if he isn't well what happens to him? I just hope nothing bad happens to him in this run, i liked him back WatX when he was making friends with Idie and being a good student despite getting into trouble at times.