New WW Creative Team: Tom King and Daniel Sampere

[WonderScott]

I like the way you broke this down.

And all with the letter "s." You should copyright that.

I have it in my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee I’ve been working on… as guidance for how Diana, Clark and Bruce interact.

Thanks for catching the S-es. I do enjoy alliteration.

[WonderScott]

I hope he does, Wondy’s Rogues need to be treated as serious threats again.

Same. Doctor Poison should be one character that even frightens the Joker.

[WonderScott]

You can say a lot of things about King's villains, but underpowered they are not.

Granted they receive criticism for being way overpowered (Riddler, Bane, Thomas Wayne Batman) but if we are trying to promote Diana's villains as epic badasses, having say Cheetah as an unstoppable savage juggernaut or Dr. Poison as a one person mass plague would be the way to do.

Hell this is the guy who revitalized Kite-Man and made him a big thing (Kite-Man Hell Yeah). If he does really go into a character's psychosis or mental state with his famous big dramatic lines like he has done for other characters it could lead them feeling pretty big.

I really hope he incorporates new perspectives on Ares, Circe and Cheetah (based on how he’s planning on writing Wonder Woman), but also builds up her other villains into major threats and/or interesting conflicted characters: Giganta, Doctor Psycho, Doctor Cyber, Eviless, Villainy Inc., Angle Man, Queen Clea, Inversion, Captain Wonder, etc.

Like your point about Kite-Man, I can see King having fun working with and revitalizing Mouse Man, Paper Man, Doctor Domino, etc.

I’d love to see him bring back Myndi Mayer too.

Essentially, I want a big tapestry of the gods and supervillains woven together in their attempts to challenge Diana.

[WonderScott]

I totally agree and would LOVE to see Dr. Poison reach WTF status. That certainly would fall in line with how Eric Luke portrayed her.

Yes please!

[Dr. Poison]

Same. Doctor Poison should be one character that even frightens the Joker.

Luthor "How about we induct Dr. Poison into the Legion of Doom?"

Joker "Are you crazy, Lexy? I met her at a bar one night & not even 5 minutes into one of her recollections about what she did to one of her victims and I soiled myself. Even Arkham couldn't cure that sadistic b!tch."

[WonderScott]

Luthor "How about we induct Dr. Poison into the Legion of Doom?"

Joker "Are you crazy, Lexy? I met her at a bar one night & not even 5 minutes into one of her recollections about what she did to one of her victims and I soiled myself. Even Arkham couldn't cure that sadistic b!tch."

Hahahaha! YES!

[HestiasHearth]

I agree with all of this, except the Wonder Women I fell in love with were equal parts Marston, Perez, Lynda Carter and the Bronze Age José Delbo version with the giant button earrings.

Attachment 130260

José Delbo has a permanent place in my heart thanks to his awesome Wonder Woman art (as well as his Batgirl feature in the Batman Family comic!), as does George Perez because, well, because his WW run is legendary. Lynda is simply Wonder Woman, point blank period, a wonderful, beautiful creature of light and love, as Diana in the TV show and in real life, and Marston, of course, is 100 % the man . He first gave us the character we all love, and his stories were simply magical, in every sense of the word.

[Hypo]

Think Sampere and Campbell's are the best out of the #800 covers.

[Gaius]

Think Sampere and Campbell's are the best out of the #800 covers.

Sampere laps everyone else here. I give Bolland some slack but others aren't anyone's A-game imo and pretty generic.

[Primal Slayer]

Not really a fan of any of them except maybe 2nd to last on the right.

[OBrianTallent]

Not really a fan of any of them except maybe 2nd to last on the right.

Belen Ortega is the artist for that one. Apparently there's also supposed to be a Bilquis Evely cardstock cover as well.

[Lukmendes]

I hope he does, Wondy’s Rogues need to be treated as serious threats again.

You can say a lot of things about King's villains, but underpowered they are not.

Granted they receive criticism for being way overpowered (Riddler, Bane, Thomas Wayne Batman) but if we are trying to promote Diana's villains as epic badasses, having say Cheetah as an unstoppable savage juggernaut or Dr. Poison as a one person mass plague would be the way to do.

Hell this is the guy who revitalized Kite-Man and made him a big thing (Kite-Man Hell Yeah). If he does really go into a character's psychosis or mental state with his famous big dramatic lines like he has done for other characters it could lead them feeling pretty big.

Well, from what I hear he made the villains broken as fuck while Batman was, not as impressive by comparison.

If he decides to inject steroids in Diana's villains, hopefully he also makes her competent enough to keep up, even if she struggles to win.

And since he's a big name, hopefully it also means that he can tell other writers to not pick someone like Cheetah to lose at random to some randoms lol.

[Vordan]

Sampere laps everyone else here. I give Bolland some slack but others aren't anyone's A-game imo and pretty generic.

Bolland’s Batman/Joker covers are still great, but his non-Bat covers have looked halfassed to me.

Well, from what I hear he made the villains broken as fuck while Batman was, not as impressive by comparison.

If he decides to inject steroids in Diana's villains, hopefully he also makes her competent enough to keep up, even if she struggles to win.

And since he's a big name, hopefully it also means that he can tell other writers to not pick someone like Cheetah to lose at random to some randoms lol.

See the problem is the Wondy fandom wants it both ways like you’re saying. They want Diana to be OP badass who kicks the crap out of everyone with ease to assert her “powerhouse” status. Meanwhile they also want Diana’s villains to be taken seriously, but in order for her villains to be treated better, they need to win. Why is Joker treated with such fear and awe? Because he gets to win. He killed Jason, crippled Barbara, killed Gordon’s wife, stole Batman’s money, etc, etc. Doomsday sucks, but he’s sticking around forever because he’s the one who got to beat Superman to death. As part of rehabilitating Mongul, PKJ had him kill and enslave Superman:



And here’s some great Sampere art of Mongul crucifying a bunch of the slaves Superman came to Warworld to save as an FU to show you what Sampere is capable of:



Mongul had been a pathetic jobber for so long, but PKJ let him win a couple times against Superman, and suddenly he was someone to be taken seriously again (that it was actually a new Mongul who killed and replaced the old one didn’t hurt either). The Cloonrad run had villains who weren’t very threatening and hardly posed much of a challenge to Diana. I’m ready for her Rogues to get serious, for there to be issues where Diana flat out fails and has to deal with that. I don’t expect it to happen off the bat, I think King will start off with Diana kicking ass and taking names, but down the road? I absolutely want to see Wonder Woman have to deal with defeat, and come back from that the way Superman did.

[Lukmendes]

Bolland’s Batman/Joker covers are still great, but his non-Bat covers have looked halfassed to me.

See the problem is the Wondy fandom wants it both ways like you’re saying. They want Diana to be OP badass who kicks the crap out of everyone with ease to assert her “powerhouse” status. Meanwhile they also want Diana’s villains to be taken seriously, but in order for her villains to be treated better, they need to win. Why is Joker treated with such fear and awe? Because he gets to win. He killed Jason, crippled Barbara, killed Gordon’s wife, stole Batman’s money, etc, etc. Doomsday sucks, but he’s sticking around forever because he’s the one who got to beat Superman to death. As part of rehabilitating Mongul, PKJ had him kill and enslave Superman:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FribP-jX...jpg&name=large

And here’s some great Sampere art of Mongul crucifying a bunch of the slaves Superman came to Warworld to save as an FU to show you what Sampere is capable of:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BOtVyT6eu...Q/s2048/3.jpeg

Mongul had been a pathetic jobber for so long, but PKJ let him win a couple times against Superman, and suddenly he was someone to be taken seriously again (that it was actually a new Mongul who killed and replaced the old one didn’t hurt either). The Cloonrad run had villains who weren’t very threatening and hardly posed much of a challenge to Diana. I’m ready for her Rogues to get serious, for there to be issues where Diana flat out fails and has to deal with that. I don’t expect it to happen off the bat, I think King will start off with Diana kicking ass and taking names, but down the road? I absolutely want to see Wonder Woman have to deal with defeat, and come back from that the way Superman did.

Well, this can be part of "struggle to win" lol.

And honestly, even a character losing isn't necessarily a loser, and you can look at Born again as an example.

In there Kingpin basically completely fucks over Matt's life, and while Matt has low points (Such as trying to attack Fisk with absolutely no plans), he's still trying, and when he finally puts his costume back, his triumphs start coming back.

So yeah, I agree with your point, villains can only be super threatening if they get to win once in a while (Or at the very least, get really close to it while being a big threat during the story), but they'll only look that competent if the hero is also competent, 'cause if Cheetah defeats Diana if Diana gives up as soon as a nail is broken, neither one will look impressive.

It's can be in a weird way, a symbiotic relationship, Diana still has to look competent enough even when losing so her villains can be elevated in believable ways that doesn't make them into boring Villain Sues, 'cause anyone can write a villain who casually defeats any hero, no matter how overpowered the hero is, but to defeat the hero and look interesting, that is what has to be done to properly elevate the villain.

Of course, it doesn't have to be always like that, villains can also get casual wins and still be believable threats, and you mentioned shit like Killing Joke, and Batman is a fucking failure in that one, and shit like that happens, it just has to have a proper balance, 'cause if King makes every Diana villain be invincible with her barely scratching them, they'll go from jobbers to too overpowered, meaning boring in the opposite way.

Or at least that's how I see it.

[Vordan]

Yeah it’s fair point, Diana needs to be competent too. If the villains win just because she’s written as a moron, then that’s not very satisfying either. Hitting that sweet spot where the hero doesn’t look inept but the villains are still able to triumph occasionally is key.