New WW Creative Team: Tom King and Daniel Sampere

[Skytten]

Except the Titans as an IP is built to play into the crossover nature of the DCU in addition to having its own stuff. Plus Beast Boy has been in more Titans content than DP content at this point, and most of it is classic.

The WW IP stands on its own more to begin with, and the Max story isn't even a solo WW arc, it was a linewide crossover.

Doesn't matter how the IP is, it shows that in DC comics you don't have to originate somewhere to be a part of the IP. And all of Lords motivation from his death until now with the exception of Justice League vs Suicide Squad has been Wonder Woman focused.

[SiegePerilous02]

I don't recall seeing Superman and Batman in the screenshots I posted with the Wonder Woman logo on them. In one screenshot, Lord is next to Circe and Cheetah who are bonafide Wonder Woman Villains. In another screenshot, he is next to Steve and Cheetah who are bonafide Wonder Woman characters. He is included in her 80th Anniversary edition, promo for her #750, and he was included in the promotional launch of Cloonrad's run as a Wonder Woman villain with his daughter Emma. I don't recall seeing Batman and Superman in that photo that included the Wonder Verse characters. Superman: Sacrifice was 2006 according to Google. That means Lord has had some resonating presence in Wonder Woman's lore for more than a decade, close to two decades now.

Heracles, Ares, Circe, and Hipolyta didn't originate in her comic either. I doubt you argue that they are not a part of the Wonder Verse. Guess who did originate in a Wonder Woman comic, First Born. Are you arguing he's more crucial to Wonder Woman than Circe because he is an original Wonder Woman character? I doubt you would.

That's more of a sign that DC is trying to force Max into the role of being a bonafide WW character by putting him in stuff with her logo on it or next to characters that have been with her since the beginning. None of that changes the stone cold fact that the reason he even has a shot is due to a crossover story from 2006 with Superman in it, not a solo WW story.

Nice strawman. They are public domain characters, but their DC iterations originated in Wonder Woman's comics. Which is to be expected, she's a character whose origins are steeped in Greek myth. Abd they have been in her lore since Wonder Woman #1 by her own creator, not forced in by outside editorial. Abd the First Born matters less than Circe, but he belongs in the IP more than Max

[PopQuezy]

Nice strawman. They are public domain characters, but their DC iterations originated in Wonder Woman's comics. Which is to be expected, she's a character whose origins are steeped in Greek myth. Abd they have been in her lore since Wonder Woman #1 by her own creator, not forced in by outside editorial. Abd the First Born matters less than Circe, but he belongs in the IP more than Max

It wasn't a strawman. It was a response to the argument you introduced. You are the one who said that Max Lord can't be a Wonder Woman character because he did not originate in the comic. I asked about other characters who did not originate in the comic. This is a fair argument because the inclusion of mythological characters is something that has been debated on this very board several times. One of the many reasons people on this board have said they dislike Azzerello's run is because of his overreliance on mythic characters and his refusal to include more original rogues. I disagree it's a strawman since it's an argument you introduced and one that's been had on this board countless times.

So for nearly 20 years editorial has forced Maxwell Lord onto the Wonder Woman franchise. That seems to indicate that D.C. offices - who have had a lot of editorial leaders in nearly two decades - see Maxwell Lord as a part of the Wonder Woman I.P.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Regardless of whether or not Lord is a part of Wonder Womans rogues gallery, hes not really that impressive frankly.
Doctor Psycho does the psychic bad guy thing worlds better than he does.
Even if the evil businessman angle hadn't been dropped for the character, others were doing it worlds better.
Kings proven Sarge Steel is a worlds more eye catching 'evil head of a government agency that wants Wonder Woman dead'

And in terms of motivations and aesthetic he just doesn't bring much to the table.
'Oh look. Some white dude with brown hair. His costumes either a suit and tie, or a t-shirt and jeans.'
No real theme, no cool motive, nothing really to latch onto.

His most recent appearance relied on trying to make him Dianas frenemy and putting focus on a new villain in 'Liar Liar' who frankly, did succeed in coming off as more interesting than Maxwell Lord.

[Skytten]

Regardless of whether or not Lord is a part of Wonder Womans rogues gallery, hes not really that impressive frankly.
Doctor Psycho does the psychic bad guy thing worlds better than he does.
Even if the evil businessman angle hadn't been dropped for the character, others were doing it worlds better.
Kings proven Sarge Steel is a worlds more eye catching 'evil head of a government agency that wants Wonder Woman dead'

And in terms of motivations and aesthetic he just doesn't bring much to the table.
'Oh look. Some white dude with brown hair. His costumes either a suit and tie, or a t-shirt and jeans.'
No real theme, no cool motive, nothing really to latch onto.

His most recent appearance relied on trying to make him Dianas frenemy and putting focus on a new villain in 'Liar Liar' who frankly, did succeed in coming off as more interesting than Maxwell Lord.

Agree with everything here. As I said I don't want him to be a Wonder Woman villain.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Out of curiosity, what is the general opinion on Liar Liar? I only see people talk about her in relation to Lord

[Primal Slayer]

Out of curiosity, what is the general opinion on Liar Liar? I only see people talk about her in relation to Lord

Id rather her not be related to Lord.

[OBrianTallent]

Out of curiosity, what is the general opinion on Liar Liar? I only see people talk about her in relation to Lord

Id rather her not be related to Lord.

I agree. She could be a stronger character if given a different background/heritage. As is...I would say her character will always fall to the shadow of her father's character...You've got Max Lord a recognizable name from a strong background over....waht was her real name again? why choose lite when you can have full flavor right? I forsee Crisis fodder in Liar's future.

[Agent Z]

It wasn't a strawman. It was a response to the argument you introduced. You are the one who said that Max Lord can't be a Wonder Woman character because he did not originate in the comic. I asked about other characters who did not originate in the comic. This is a fair argument because the inclusion of mythological characters is something that has been debated on this very board several times. One of the many reasons people on this board have said they dislike Azzerello's run is because of his overreliance on mythic characters and his refusal to include more original rogues. I disagree it's a strawman since it's an argument you introduced and one that's been had on this board countless times.

So for nearly 20 years editorial has forced Maxwell Lord onto the Wonder Woman franchise. That seems to indicate that D.C. offices - who have had a lot of editorial leaders in nearly two decades - see Maxwell Lord as a part of the Wonder Woman I.P.

I've only seen one user on this board who complained about that.

As for Max, he appeared in the Supergirl show as well.

[Skytten]

Out of curiosity, what is the general opinion on Liar Liar? I only see people talk about her in relation to Lord

As the others have said would probably do better without being related to Lord.

[king81992]

Out of curiosity, what is the general opinion on Liar Liar? I only see people talk about her in relation to Lord

She has potential. Not sure if the current set of writers realize it, though.

[Dr. Poison]

Out of curiosity, what is the general opinion on Liar Liar? I only see people talk about her in relation to Lord

I dismissed her as a throw-away character a long time ago. She doesn't really bring anything to the table that Hypnota, Dr. Psycho, or the Duke of Deception don't already bring.

[Gaius]

Regardless of whether or not Lord is a part of Wonder Womans rogues gallery, hes not really that impressive frankly.
Doctor Psycho does the psychic bad guy thing worlds better than he does.
Even if the evil businessman angle hadn't been dropped for the character, others were doing it worlds better.
Kings proven Sarge Steel is a worlds more eye catching 'evil head of a government agency that wants Wonder Woman dead'

And in terms of motivations and aesthetic he just doesn't bring much to the table.
'Oh look. Some white dude with brown hair. His costumes either a suit and tie, or a t-shirt and jeans.'
No real theme, no cool motive, nothing really to latch onto.

His most recent appearance relied on trying to make him Dianas frenemy and putting focus on a new villain in 'Liar Liar' who frankly, did succeed in coming off as more interesting than Maxwell Lord.

Dreadfully uninteresting and redundant, just like her father.

[Hypo]

Wonder Woman #4 Art by Daniel Sampere

[Frontier]

Wonder Woman #4 Art by Daniel Sampere

Oh hey, the classic costume!