New WW Creative Team: Tom King and Daniel Sampere

[SiegePerilous02]

Rucka pretty much streamlined Cheetah, Veronica and Circe in Rebirth by folding Priscilla back into Barbara, making Veronica a modern Paula von Gunther (she works so much better as that), and getting rid of all the Hecate soul swapping nonsense for Circe.

I think the former two are better than their post-Crisis counterparts, and Circe has some improvements by keeping her a wild card who probably has a simplified grudge against the Amazons. But I do prefer post Crisis Circe in terms of her camp and evilness. But overall it might be my favorite presentation of a triad of female foes who have dynamics with each other.

[Gaius]

I wouldn't say Cheetah is bad, but I wouldn't really say shes biggest Wonder Woman villain material either.
I mean the Priscilla Rich Cheetah of the 40s was hot stuff as an evil mastermind with a gimmick but Deborah Domaine? Barbara Minerva? Sebastian Ballasteros? They usually answer to other villains. This is hardly a bad thing. Having villains who can be inserted into other villains schemes makes for some great story potential.

But well just to use Post Crisis as an example and focusing on Barbara Minerva for a moment we had her major story appearances be....
1. Pops up in the Perez era to try killing Wonder Woman and stealing the lasso in the hopes it would save her life.
2. Forced to become a minion for Circe during her epic villian scheme. Would betray Circe to help Wonder Woman.
3. Captured by demons and rescued by Wonder Woman before choosing to leap into hell to battle more demons.
4. Pops up to help Wonder Woman fight the White Magician before being turned into a demon minion by said White Magician
5. Gets her soul taken by Necron and becomes a savage monster of pure evil
6. Becoming a minion for Circe during that period wherin Circe becomes Wonder Woman
7. Going on a killing spree during Ruckas run to try killing an imprisoned Wonder Woman
8. Gaining control of the Secret Society of Supervillains and being mind controlled by Ares to create Genocide

To be fair in new 52 and Rebirth shes had more stuff. Fought the Justice League, became Veronica Cales minion, was given a god killing weapon by Lex Luthor, allied against Wonder Woman to fight the gods.....

But overall most of Cheetahs stories are those of following someone elses lead, helping Wonder Woman, or being manipulated by someone else.
And when she IS acting on her own as an antagonist it pretty much boils down to trying to eat Wonder Womans face or kill people on the way towards trying to kill Wonder Woman.
She makes for a wonderful physical threat. But threat to the entire world she aint.

So was Priscilla?

Yeah, she starts off solo but she's just as much as a minion in Villainy Inc and definitely in the Legion of Doom, where Lex is indisputably the one in charge. So yeah unsurprisingly the character who gets used more, Barbara, than the one who goes decades without being used has worse showings.

You can use whatever different hair colored Cheetah you want, doesn't matter if DC writers in general don't care about the character at all.

[SiegePerilous02]

So was Priscilla?

Yeah, she starts off solo but she's just as much as a minion in Villainy Inc and definitely in the Legion of Doom, where Lex is indisputably the one in charge. So yeah unsurprisingly the character who gets used more, Barbara, than the one who goes decades without being used has worse showings.

You can use whatever different hair colored Cheetah you want, doesn't matter if DC writers in general don't care about the character at all.

And yet, one of the rare times Priscilla is used in other media, she gets to beat up Superman. And I don't really care that they threw in a nod to Urzkartaga, for all intents and purposes it was Priscilla.

Her being a woman in a costume provides more incentive for creators to make her resourceful when going up against super powered foes. Barbara often gets reduced to being a dumb animal only used as a physical threat who keeps trying the same stuff in fights that never work. So why keep trying with her when they could re-set to the original version who might be more versatile?

[Nyssane]

Loving all this Priscilla love. <3

[Gaius]

And yet, one of the rare times Priscilla is used in other media, she gets to beat up Superman. And I don't really care that they threw in a nod to Urzkartaga, for all intents and purposes it was Priscilla.

Her being a woman in a costume provides more incentive for creators to make her resourceful when going up against super powered foes. Barbara often gets reduced to being a dumb animal only used as a physical threat who keeps trying the same stuff in fights that never work. So why keep trying with her when they could re-set to the original version who might be more versatile?

I mean, you cannot care all you want. Both instances of modern Priscilla involve juicing the character up because they realize a woman in a car suit isn’t a believable threat to someone who’s on Superman’s level.

And yeah, of course Barbara’s gonna be done bad in most adaptations, so is Diana. Put Priscilla in a bad adaptation of with a badly adapted Wonder Woman and you’ll get the same result. Their fictional characters, they’re only a good as their writer is. Should we stop adaptating/writing WW because of the “WW has no good stories” lie/talking point?

[SiegePerilous02]

I mean, you cannot care all you want. Both instances of modern Priscilla involve juicing the character up because they realize a woman in a car suit isn’t a believable threat to someone who’s on Superman’s level.

And yeah, of course Barbara’s gonna be done bad in most adaptations, so is Diana. Put Priscilla in a bad adaptation of with a badly adapted Wonder Woman and you’ll get the same result. Their fictional characters, they’re only a good as their writer is. Should we stop adaptating/writing WW because of the “WW has no good stories” lie/talking point?

Marston juiced her up too. In the first story she stole Hippolyta's girdle and it allowed her to be in a temporary stalemate with Diana. She also possibly used her Amazon training to enhance her skills. Priscilla has been a resourceful crafty woman from jump. That's not something they applied to her just because Barbara had super powers first.

And isn't they kind of a strawman? Diana is always Diana, but there are alternate versions of Cheetah. And in her limited adaptations, Priscilla has better outings than Barbara. Maybe Barbara has had more than enough chances and it's time to try a different tactic? Priscilla is the reason Cheetah is considered the iconic arch anyway, and her gimmick has been disbursed across three different characters who don't do it as well as her

[Gaius]

Marston juiced her up too. In the first story she stole Hippolyta's girdle and it allowed her to be in a temporary stalemate with Diana. She also possibly used her Amazon training to enhance her skills. Priscilla has been a resourceful crafty woman from jump. That's not something they applied to her just because Barbara had super powers first.

And isn't they kind of a strawman? Diana is always Diana, but there are alternate versions of Cheetah. And in her limited adaptations, Priscilla has better outings than Barbara. Maybe Barbara has had more than enough chances and it's time to try a different tactic? Priscilla is the reason Cheetah is considered the iconic arch anyway, and her gimmick has been disbursed across three different characters who don't do it as well as her

And that goes back to the points I brought up of Barbara being used more means by default she will have more worst uses than Priscilla. In addition to what I brought up if writers don’t care enough to treat WW write, than that will extend to other characters connected her.

And it’s not really a strawman. Like I said, they are fictional characters who are only as good as their writers are. Diana isn’t suddenly a bad character because people like Waid or the DCAU drop the ball, and neither is Barbara.

[SiegePerilous02]

And that goes back to the points I brought up of Barbara being used more means by default she will have more worst uses than Priscilla. In addition to what I brought up if writers don’t care enough to treat WW write, than that will extend to other characters connected her.

And it’s not really a strawman. Like I said, they are fictional characters who are only as good as their writers are. Diana isn’t suddenly a bad character because people like Waid or the DCAU drop the ball, and neither is Barbara.

I wouldn't ever say Barbara is a bad character. I love her, but the fact is, even if WW gets placed in much better hands in other media, those people would have an uphill climb to reform Barbara's public image after all the strike outs. So why not give her a break and try Priscilla instead? If the goal is to have Cheetah live up to her reputation as an arch nemesis, why not use the version that cemented that iconic status in the first place who actually is unhinged and evil? Perez's Barbara was great, but he never gave her a reason to hate Diana. Rucka did by fusing her with Priscilla, but he may have made her TOO tragic, because her potential has been squandered.

After WW84 came out, I had a friend who said he didn't get why Diana's arch enemy was a "cat thing", but he thought Alex Ross,'s Priscilla was visually cooler and thinks they should have gone with that. And again, Priscilla was the trailblazer that Barbara, Circe and Veronica followed. Barbara has her supervillain name. Circe took the Alpha Bitch Diva energy and all the outfits (Priscilla changed her clothes every scene). Veronica took the petty envy mindset that will brook no rivals. Priscilla announced the world was not big enough for her and Diana long before Perez had Circe say it.

There can only be one Cheetah at a time. I will always love Barbara, but maybe it's time to let Priscilla take the crown back? She'd even potentially upstage Circe, because she took "being petty while being glamorous " to an art form

[Gaius]

I wouldn't ever say Barbara is a bad character. I love her, but the fact is, even if WW gets placed in much better hands in other media, those people would have an uphill climb to reform Barbara's public image after all the strike outs. So why not give her a break and try Priscilla instead? If the goal is to have Cheetah live up to her reputation as an arch nemesis, why not use the version that cemented that iconic status in the first place who actually is unhinged and evil? Perez's Barbara was great, but he never gave her a reason to hate Diana. Rucka did by fusing her with Priscilla, but he may have made her TOO tragic, because her potential has been squandered.

After WW84 came out, I had a friend who said he didn't get why Diana's arch enemy was a "cat thing", but he thought Alex Ross,'s Priscilla was visually cooler and thinks they should have gone with that. And again, Priscilla was the trailblazer that Barbara, Circe and Veronica followed. Barbara has her supervillain name. Circe took the Alpha Bitch Diva energy and all the outfits (Priscilla changed her clothes every scene). Veronica took the petty envy mindset that will brook no rivals. Priscilla announced the world was not big enough for her and Diana long before Perez had Circe say it.

There can only be one Cheetah at a time. I will always love Barbara, but maybe it's time to let Priscilla take the crown back? She'd even potentially upstage Circe, because she took "being petty while being glamorous " to an art form

I still question if WW got more solo media stuff if it would particularly matter if they used Priscilla or Barbara since I don't think it's really well advertised/known there's been multiple Cheetahs. I think the character concept in general just isn't taken seriously by comic writers/audiences who aren't already WW fans.

But no I wouldn't say it's bad or anything if Priscilla got more use, at least in adaptations since that's the more obvious route atm. I prefer Barbara but I don't have anything against Priscilla.

[Vordan]

Majority has no clue there are multiple Cheetahs and it makes no difference to them. Most people could not tell you Cheetah’s name or her backstory or why she hates Diana anyway.

[SiegePerilous02]

Majority has no clue there are multiple Cheetahs and it makes no difference to them. Most people could not tell you Cheetah’s name or her backstory or why she hates Diana anyway.

I don't think what the majority does or doesn't know really matters all that much, so I'm not sure why it keeps getting brought up.

At a surface level glance, Cheetah as a literal animal figure hasn't worked. So go with the execution of the concept that is usually reserved for Priscilla to try something different when the time comes. It doesn't matter if they call her "Barbara" or "Priscilla", just as long as they use the formula that has worked objectively better for Priscilla (resourceful human schemer in a costume). But since nobody but the fans knows there are multiple Cheetahs, why would it matter if they used Priscilla instead?

Though you would have to reclaim some of Circe's campy diva energy if Priscilla was used.

[Vordan]

I don't think what the majority does or doesn't know really matters all that much, so I'm not sure why it keeps getting brought up.

Can’t speak for Gaius but my view is that Cheetah would get treated the same whether it’s Barbara or Priscilla. I don’t think her frequent usage as a jobber in animation for example is because they have a problem with Barbara specifically, I think it has to do with a lack of care/interest in the Wonder Mythos as a whole. But I do like the Two-Face aspect that Barbara brings of the fallen former friend, it’s my hope to see that adapted outside of comics in an effective way someday.

[Gaius]

I don't think what the majority does or doesn't know really matters all that much, so I'm not sure why it keeps getting brought up.

At a surface level glance, Cheetah as a literal animal figure hasn't worked. So go with the execution of the concept that is usually reserved for Priscilla to try something different when the time comes. It doesn't matter if they call her "Barbara" or "Priscilla", just as long as they use the formula that has worked objectively better for Priscilla (resourceful human schemer in a costume). But since nobody but the fans knows there are multiple Cheetahs, why would it matter if they used Priscilla instead?

Though you would have to reclaim some of Circe's campy diva energy if Priscilla was used.

Can’t speak for Gaius but my view is that Cheetah would get treated the same whether it’s Barbara or Priscilla. I don’t think her frequent usage as a jobber in animation for example is because they have a problem with Barbara specifically, I think it has to do with a lack of care/interest in the Wonder Mythos as a whole. But I do like the Two-Face aspect that Barbara brings of the fallen former friend, it’s my hope to see that adapted outside of comics in an effective way someday.

This pretty much is what I’m saying. It’s a lack of interest/disdain for Wonder Woman stuff in general by the people in charge of most adaptations that’s the problem. You could have made Priscilla the Cheetah in the DCAU and guarantee it still would have just been her making out with Bruce because the people in charge fundamentally did not care. Same goes for that Catwoman movie.

[SiegePerilous02]

Can’t speak for Gaius but my view is that Cheetah would get treated the same whether it’s Barbara or Priscilla. I don’t think her frequent usage as a jobber in animation for example is because they have a problem with Barbara specifically, I think it has to do with a lack of care/interest in the Wonder Mythos as a whole. But I do like the Two-Face aspect that Barbara brings of the fallen former friend, it’s my hope to see that adapted outside of comics in an effective way someday.

This pretty much is what I’m saying. It’s a lack of interest/disdain for Wonder Woman stuff in general by the people in charge of most adaptations that’s the problem. You could have made Priscilla the Cheetah in the DCAU and guarantee it still would have just been her making out with Bruce because the people in charge fundamentally did not care. Same goes for that Catwoman movie.

It's a given that first and foremost, we need to hope for creators who actually care and understand the WW mythos.

But if the goal would be to rehabilitate Cheetah's image as Diana's "Joker" instead of her "Two Face" (sorry not good enough lol), Priscilla sells it better and is an option to try a different tactic away from Barbara needing a break. It's not entirely Barbara's fault as a character that her image is weak (in fact, for the most part, it isn't), but it is what it is. Priscilla is better suited for the role, as her motivation and focus is entirely on Diana in a way that fits Wonder Woman's themes. And she's more unhinged and malicious

[Majesty]

I am of the opinion that as it currently stands, I'd like to see Cheetah as a bit of a tweener in all honesty.