New WW Creative Team: Tom King and Daniel Sampere

[Primal Slayer]

And Again, Diana doesn't need a One True Pairing. She should date many people across her lifetime

Neither does Superman but alas he had his OTP.

Trying to keep Diana out of the superhero norm has done her zero favors for her or her supporting cast.

[MarquisAsh]

Gotham is Batman’s true love interest at the end of the day.

[Badou]

Attachment 131823

https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status...23448517263361

I didn't really read Supergirl WOT as celebrating her, especially her classic self. It felt more like he turned her into a miserable person and a drunk to tell the story he wanted. Which was True Grit in space. I think King can be a talented writer, but I don't know if WOT is a good example to use for what I think most traditional WW fans want I guess.

[Badou]

I think Steve is an okay love interest for what he is, but the problem is making him work with a character like Wonder Woman is very difficult. Since you have the classic version where he is from WWII, or WWI like the movie, where they meet in the past and so on. That locks him into the past and prevents him from being part of modern stories unless they decide to turn him into Captain America or something to bring him forward in time. Then you have the option to do what they did in the New 52 and have him just be a modern character along with Wonder Woman, but then she loses out on her WWII history if you have her being introduced to the outside world in modern times. So you have to pick and choose with one to go with. A Lois or Catwoman can move up and down across history in parallel with Superman and Batman and none of their history has to be drastically changed or altered. It is one of those situations where I really don't know what the solution is.

[Dr. Poison]

There aren't many female superheroes dating characters that aren't superheroes. The few normal love interests for female heroes that exist aren't famous yes. But then again, being famous doesn't make you a good character.

By popular, I meant accepted/appreciated, not well-known. There are plenty of other female heroes that have books or had them recently such as Batgirl, Supergirl, Black Canary, Stargirl, Hawkgirl(coming soon), Wonder Girl(Yara), Power Girl(coming soon), Mary Shazam, and over at Marvel there's Captain Marvel, Black Widow, Storm, and Spider-Woman.

[Ascended]

I think Steve is an okay love interest for what he is, but the problem is making him work with a character like Wonder Woman is very difficult. Since you have the classic version where he is from WWII, or WWI like the movie, where they meet in the past and so on. That locks him into the past and prevents him from being part of modern stories unless they decide to turn him into Captain America or something to bring him forward in time. Then you have the option to do what they did in the New 52 and have him just be a modern character along with Wonder Woman, but then she loses out on her WWII history if you have her being introduced to the outside world in modern times. So you have to pick and choose with one to go with. A Lois or Catwoman can move up and down across history in parallel with Superman and Batman and none of their history has to be drastically changed or altered. It is one of those situations where I really don't know what the solution is.

I haven't been with the book for a minute, have they done anything with the WWII history?

If you gotta keep that history and you still want Steve around now, I figure the answer is pretty straight forward. Just say that Diana returned to the Island with Steve, where they stayed until duty called them back to Man's World. He didn't age while he was there. Done. Didn't pre-Crisis or earth-2 do something like this?

[Badou]

I haven't been with the book for a minute, have they done anything with the WWII history?

Didn't they recently decide to bring back Wonder Woman's WWII history and she was a founding JSA member?

[Vordan]

I'm confused do people consider Selina as important as well as Bruce's girlfriend to the Batman mythos? I don't consider her the definitive girlfriend of Bruce or that important for his stories, I think she is a villain, former villain, who could go many editions and runs without appearing, she is not Lois Lane who is fundamental to the myths of Superman, she is just one of his girlfriends, honestly in a way, Steve is much more important in the Mythology of the Wonder Woman than Selina is for Batman

The general public probably does. Nolan Bats was the iconic Batman for a generation, and he ends up retiring with his Catwoman. The Batman set up Selina as the biggest temptation towards giving up the cowl that Batman has. Catwoman got lots of ship teases with Batman in the Arkham games. Bruce and her are on and off still in the Injustice games. Only Talia comes close as the #2 LI, and she is more of a villain these days compared to Selina’s antihero. If you ask a casual to name Batman’s top LI, it’s a safe bet they’ll say it’s Catwoman.

Didn't they recently decide to bring back Wonder Woman's WWII history and she was a founding JSA member?

Johns teased that to be the case, and it was planned for 5G, but the main WW book is ignoring whatever he’s trying to do. It’s just part of DC’s continuity mess where there’s various bits and pieces that anyone can reference as they will without concern for how it all fits together. Logically something like that requires another origin for Diana but DC doesn’t seem to want to do that and instead is just leaving Rucka’s origin alone.

[WonderLight789]

The general public probably does. Nolan Bats was the iconic Batman for a generation, and he ends up retiring with his Catwoman. The Batman set up Selina as the biggest temptation towards giving up the cowl that Batman has. Catwoman got lots of ship teases with Batman in the Arkham games. Bruce and her are on and off still in the Injustice games. Only Talia comes close as the #2 LI, and she is more of a villain these days compared to Selina’s antihero. If you ask a casual to name Batman’s top LI, it’s a safe bet they’ll say it’s Catwoman.


Johns teased that to be the case, and it was planned for 5G, but the main WW book is ignoring whatever he’s trying to do. It’s just part of DC’s continuity mess where there’s various bits and pieces that anyone can reference as they will without concern for how it all fits together. Logically something like that requires another origin for Diana but DC doesn’t seem to want to do that and instead is just leaving Rucka’s origin alone.

How any of that leaves Ruka's origin intact? The latest issue says Diana is a child of Zeus. And Ruka had her powers coming from the Gods that blessed her with powers. Completely different origins.

[Vordan]

Then you have the option to do what they did in the New 52 and have him just be a modern character along with Wonder Woman, but then she loses out on her WWII history if you have her being introduced to the outside world in modern times.

So? I don’t know why you think that’s an important part of who WW is. Post Crisis WW actually debuted later than Superman and Batman did. The DCAU WW likewise debuted long after those two were established superheroes. Outside of the DCEU WW, who has one great movie and one mediocre movie, Diana having a “WW history” is not an essential part of who she is at all. If anything it hurts her because she has to quit with the JSA and go into hiding if she debuted back then. Making Diana a hero who has been around for centuries necessitates a pretty radical reinvention of her personality, relationship with other heroes, and perspective than DC has ever been comfortable with. Hence why they’re currently ignoring Johns’ attempts to “leave a mark on her” over in JSA.

[Badou]

So? I don’t know why you think that’s an important part of who WW is. Post Crisis WW actually debuted later than Superman and Batman did. The DCAU WW likewise debuted long after those two were established superheroes. Outside of the DCEU WW, who has one great movie and one mediocre movie, Diana having a “WW history” is not an essential part of who she is at all. If anything it hurts her because she has to quit with the JSA and go into hiding if she debuted back then. Making Diana a hero who has been around for centuries necessitates a pretty radical reinvention of her personality, relationship with other heroes, and perspective than DC has ever been comfortable with. Hence why they’re currently ignoring Johns’ attempts to “leave a mark on her” over in JSA.

I'm indifferent, but to some fans her pre Crisis history is probably important. It was part of her character for decades, and it was important to Steve's character at the time. Although on John's JSA thing I was always a bit off on having WW be a founding member. One of the reasons a Batman debuted before a Wonder Woman post Crisis is that Batman's supporting characters kind of remained static. The original plan was to deage Dick and have him be Robin again, but then that didn't work out and the Titans editors fought to keep him and the Bat editors decided to just revamp the new Robin in Jason and continue on with a lot of the pre Crisis history intact. Wonder Woman just never really had those kind of supporting characters that anchor her history the same way and it caused her history to be in flux with writers remolding her supporting cast to fit the vision they want.

[Guy_McNichts]

...have him just be a modern character along with Wonder Woman, but then she loses out on her WWII history if you have her being introduced to the outside world in modern times.

...so she loses absolutely nothing worth keeping, in other words.


Sounds like an easy solution if you ask me.

[Agent Z]

Her personality matched comic Artemis? Are we talking about live action Artemis because if so....WHAT personality? She didn't have one and certainly not one that was a rival in any sense of the word to classic Artemis or even 2009 Artemis that was also removed from her Bana origins but still very much in character.

All she was, was big and buff but that could easily be Io as well fit wise.

I was talking about animated movie Artemis.

[Agent Z]

Neither does Superman but alas he had his OTP.

Trying to keep Diana out of the superhero norm has done her zero favors for her or her supporting cast.

The issue with her supporting cast is a log bigger than not having a one true pairing.

[Agent Z]

I'm not particularly sure it helps your argument that Steve isn't important if as you point out he, along with Hippolyta, have been the most consistently appearing supporting characters in WW media.

I'd say it does when he didn't leave much of an impression outside of very few instances.