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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    does DCUO count as a "Superman" game?

    'cause there's a lot of characters including Superman in DCUO
    From a game design perspective, I think so. It's not from a branding perspective, but IMO the game design element is more important and interesting.

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    From a game design perspective, I think so. It's not from a branding perspective, but IMO the game design element is more important and interesting.
    they have Superman in adverts for the game, and he's a major NPC, though you can't play AS Superman.

    You can play as a copy of a Kryptonian, and wear one of Superman's outfits, though.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    they have Superman in adverts for the game, and he's a major NPC, though you can't play AS Superman.

    You can play as a copy of a Kryptonian, and wear one of Superman's outfits, though.
    Yeah, but I think calling it a "Superman game" from the brand perspective is a bit too narrow. Superman's highly featured but is still part of a larger ensemble.

  4. #19
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Yeah, but I think calling it a "Superman game" from the brand perspective is a bit too narrow. Superman's highly featured but is still part of a larger ensemble.
    Yeah it's a bit of a fine line.... It's a video game with Superman, so it fits the idea of "Superman in videogames"... but it's really not Superman centric.

  5. #20
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    DCUO is a game with Superman in it, not a Superman game.

    I do think some of their systems/mechanics are worth stealing for a Superman game though.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  6. #21
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    DCUO is a game with Superman in it, not a Superman game.

    I do think some of their systems/mechanics are worth stealing for a Superman game though.
    Their flying system was a little stiff last I remembered, but like Superman Returns it was enough to get me to try the game and play through the main campaign. Pretty amazing how long that game has lasted.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  7. #22
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Their flying system was a little stiff last I remembered, but like Superman Returns it was enough to get me to try the game and play through the main campaign. Pretty amazing how long that game has lasted.
    Twelve years now, I think. And for eleven and a half years the internet has been saying the game is a step away from shutting down.

    Their flight system isn't bad. A little stiff, yeah, but better than some others, including much newer games too. It's better than their super speed, which is crazy fun but super annoying if you run yourself into a corner.

    One of the things I like about their system that I wouldn't mind seeing carry into a proper Super game is the way they blend combat. Physical/regular attacks (like martial arts, two-handed weapons, guns, etc) are handled with a "smash/combo/block/block breaker" system vaguely akin to fighting games, while you have a more MMO style loadout for your actual powers. Gives your playstyle flexibility, and I found it was an easy system to learn, so good for beginners and casuals, but there's surprising depth to it if you care to look too.

    I wouldn't want the exact same system and set-up carried over, but the basic idea is a good one.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Twelve years now, I think. And for eleven and a half years the internet has been saying the game is a step away from shutting down.

    Their flight system isn't bad. A little stiff, yeah, but better than some others, including much newer games too. It's better than their super speed, which is crazy fun but super annoying if you run yourself into a corner.

    One of the things I like about their system that I wouldn't mind seeing carry into a proper Super game is the way they blend combat. Physical/regular attacks (like martial arts, two-handed weapons, guns, etc) are handled with a "smash/combo/block/block breaker" system vaguely akin to fighting games, while you have a more MMO style loadout for your actual powers. Gives your playstyle flexibility, and I found it was an easy system to learn, so good for beginners and casuals, but there's surprising depth to it if you care to look too.

    I wouldn't want the exact same system and set-up carried over, but the basic idea is a good one.
    A lot of the animations just feel like they were made for Superman too. The regular flight stance? 100% Superman.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Prime's Avatar
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    So guys how can we make this happen? Vordan didn’t you have like a outline for this ?

  10. #25
    Jax City/Kill The FIremen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think historically, the reason we've never had a great Super game is largely due to technological limitations. Lot of problems in other areas (like story) seem to start out as efforts to deal with hardware/software limitations. It's only been relatively recently that gaming reached the requirements you need to really nail the whole scope of being Clark Kent. And just because we can do it on a technical level now doesn't mean it's easy. Must be hard finding the right balance between challenge, story, audience expectation/the "Superman Experience," and system/mechanics.

    There was a whole thread about how to pull it off not too long ago. Lot of interesting ideas in there. I really dug someone's suggestion of doing an old school, turn based Final Fantasy clone. Seemed like such a weird, counterintuitive idea but I think it could actually be pretty great, and solve a mountain of programming questions/concerns.
    You see, I'm going to disagree here. Kratos literally goes around killing GODS. There plenty of characters in video games who are powerful and fast as Superman. Just don't give Clark his full range of powers or strength. You can let the player select which "power level" they want for the game. Regardless of the fact, Clark is still overpowered and hard to kill no matter what incarnation you pick. I'd actually say the original "power levels" is probably the best way to go. He's still stupidly strong. Nothing less than a bursting shell can penetrate his skin. He can be killed, for those who didn't know. He wasn't completely impervious to pain. He can outrace an any vehicle on Earth. Most of all, he still have enhanced sight and hearing.

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    You see, I'm going to disagree here. Kratos literally goes around killing GODS. There plenty of characters in video games who are powerful and fast as Superman. Just don't give Clark his full range of powers or strength. You can let the player select which "power level" they want for the game. Regardless of the fact, Clark is still overpowered and hard to kill no matter what incarnation you pick. I'd actually say the original "power levels" is probably the best way to go. He's still stupidly strong. Nothing less than a bursting shell can penetrate his skin. He can be killed, for those who didn't know. He wasn't completely impervious to pain. He can outrace an any vehicle on Earth. Most of all, he still have enhanced sight and hearing.
    There is also Dante. And recently we got the DBZ game Kakarot

  12. #27
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    You see, I'm going to disagree here. Kratos literally goes around killing GODS.
    Sure, but you're talking story. I'm talking mechanics, hard/software limitations, and data size.

    You can call any character in a video game a "god" and then have them defeated with a blue shell or a boomerang or chain-sword or Ultima spell or whatever. But capturing the full scope of Clark's abilities and accurately translating that into a player's experience, with room left over to make the game fun and challenging? That's a relatively recent advancement.

    And if you ask me, if you can't give a player the full scope of Clark's powers there's not much point in doing the game at all. I'd happily accept a Golden Age Superman game (which would be easy to do, by today's standards), but if you want the "classic" fully powered version? All or nothing baby.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  13. #28
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    So guys how can we make this happen? Vordan didn’t you have like a outline for this ?
    Yeah, you can read my pitch here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Sure, but you're talking story. I'm talking mechanics, hard/software limitations, and data size.

    You can call any character in a video game a "god" and then have them defeated with a blue shell or a boomerang or chain-sword or Ultima spell or whatever. But capturing the full scope of Clark's abilities and accurately translating that into a player's experience, with room left over to make the game fun and challenging? That's a relatively recent advancement.

    And if you ask me, if you can't give a player the full scope of Clark's powers there's not much point in doing the game at all. I'd happily accept a Golden Age Superman game (which would be easy to do, by today's standards), but if you want the "classic" fully powered version? All or nothing baby.
    I don’t quite agree because the Arkham games didn’t give you the “full” experience right off the bat either. You couldn’t drive the Batmobile until Knight. The Batfamily didn’t show up until City. The core of Superman is that he’s strong, fast, and can fly. Long as he has some measure of those abilities, and I don’t buy that Clark can’t be around Spider-Man tier strong and fast to feel legit in a game, then the public will accept him.

    But if it is a problem then just put him in a setting where Superman starting off depowered and having to unlock his abilities makes sense. My pitch is the Phantom Zone but you could easily copy the Warworld Saga and mandate Clark has to collect Genesis fragments from foes to reempower himself, and that’s basically his XP to “level up”.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  14. #29
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Sure, but you're talking story. I'm talking mechanics, hard/software limitations, and data size.

    You can call any character in a video game a "god" and then have them defeated with a blue shell or a boomerang or chain-sword or Ultima spell or whatever. But capturing the full scope of Clark's abilities and accurately translating that into a player's experience, with room left over to make the game fun and challenging? That's a relatively recent advancement.

    And if you ask me, if you can't give a player the full scope of Clark's powers there's not much point in doing the game at all. I'd happily accept a Golden Age Superman game (which would be easy to do, by today's standards), but if you want the "classic" fully powered version? All or nothing baby.
    Full power you say? As in fist fights at supersonic speeds? hmm... that does sound challenging.

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yeah, you can read my pitch here.


    I don’t quite agree because the Arkham games didn’t give you the “full” experience right off the bat either. You couldn’t drive the Batmobile until Knight. The Batfamily didn’t show up until City. The core of Superman is that he’s strong, fast, and can fly. Long as he has some measure of those abilities, and I don’t buy that Clark can’t be around Spider-Man tier strong and fast to feel legit in a game, then the public will accept him.

    But if it is a problem then just put him in a setting where Superman starting off depowered and having to unlock his abilities makes sense. My pitch is the Phantom Zone but you could easily copy the Warworld Saga and mandate Clark has to collect Genesis fragments from foes to reempower himself, and that’s basically his XP to “level up”.
    Ok that would work in a first game. But how would you justify Clark getting his powers back in a sequel? You can only do that once.

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