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  1. #76
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    I think you are thinking to much of it.
    I might be, I rarely claim to be absolutely sure of anything I say. If I'm wrong, I blame my business professors.

    But am I wrong about the history of limitations and failures? Am I remembering wrong that "I don't feel like Superman" was a common complaint with past efforts? If I'm right about that, then I stand by my assessment. If it didn't work then, ceteris paribus, it won't work now.

    Conventional gaming wisdom has failed Clark in the past. It's not gonna save him now.

    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    This raises a question: do you want your game to be modeled after other good/successful games, or do you want to try to do things a little differently and give the player additional flexibility and freedom? There's no right answer but there's merit either way.
    I think you'd have to mess with the structure and get a little innovative no matter what kind of game you did. Maybe if you did a retro, turn based, Final Fantasy type of thing, you'd be able to just color inside the lines of that genre and it'd work great. Gods know FF has gone to some wild places. But most other genres/formats? I think you'd have to expand them and do some different things to get a good "S" game out of it. I don't think we could just take a successful game, toss a "S" skin on it, and have it be successful.

    If that was the case I'd be playing Skyrim: Metropolis edition right now.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  2. #77
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    I'm 100% in the camp that if I'm going to play a Superman game, I want it to have some aspect of Superman simulation. Like, yeah, the Taito arcade game was fun, but it's not a particularly special beat-em-up from the era, nor does it really do a good job of simulating Superman the way another beat-em-up like TMNT does. The holy grail of superhero video games is the one that minimizes compromise between Superman simulation and good gameplay. If you just want a good game, you could slap on Superman stuff into it but I think that's a level of settling I'd rather avoid.

    We've had a handful of decent or even good games that featured Superman but I think they all left something to be desired in the simulation aspect. So for me, it's either do more of the same or find a way to raise the bar. I'm willing to wait.
    I’m not, and there’s zero guarantee you’re going to get a Superman game made to your exact specifications anyway. People have complaints about the Batman and Spidey games, it’s an absolute certainty the Wondy fans will have complaints about the WW game, but they were still fun to play and that’s what mattered. I’d rather have a Superman game that’s fun to play and introduces a new generation to him even if it break the “sacred lore”. Give me a Superman who is vulnerable to lasers, who gets hurt when mooks in Mech suits hit him, who can’t move faster than the speed of light, if that’s what it takes to make a fun Superman game then so be it.
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  3. #78
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    I'd clarify saying that from my perspective, I already have a stack of games I haven't gotten around to yet, so I wouldn't get excited about a Superman game that was more of the same or otherwise not spectacular. If it wasn't quite a great Superman simulator but was a great game overall, I might get excited about it. But if it's merely OK or worse and it didn't break new ground, then I'll pass.

  4. #79
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    I'd clarify saying that from my perspective, I already have a stack of games I haven't gotten around to yet, so I wouldn't get excited about a Superman game that was more of the same or otherwise not spectacular. If it wasn't quite a great Superman simulator but was a great game overall, I might get excited about it. But if it's merely OK or worse and it didn't break new ground, then I'll pass.
    Fair enough. Gotta say for me personally? Seeing that Spider-Man trailer only increased my desire for a new Superman game.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  5. #80
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    If Superman being too powerful is an issue, then to me it seems like the logical thing is to make him less powerful and make that part of the game.

    Let players start off playing "God Mode" Superman, then after a mission or level or two...

    Lex Luthor hits him with a Kryptonite poison that's slowly draining his powers
    or
    Brainiac shots him with a DNA altering devise where he can't draw powers from the sun anymore and is constantly getting weaker
    or
    Mr. Mxyzptlk just shows up and goes "Poof! You're not as powerful anymore."

    Now Superman has to save the day with a limited amount of power possibly while he's dying even.

  6. #81
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I had a similar idea that tied into the levelling process.

    I figure you start the story with Clark at full power, maybe just as part of the opening cinematic, and the villain hits him with something that weakens him (red sun radiation or whatever). Then the tutorial begins with Clark at roughly Golden Age levels, and as you level up and become more powerful, it's explained in-game as you reabsorbing solar energy.

    Had an idea for some Elder Scrolls-like skill options too, so you could build your Superman however you wanted, focusing on certain powers/skills, including a skill tree for the weird stuff, like the electric powers and/or old Silver Age one-off stuff. That could be explained in-game as whatever weakens you has some long-term affects on how Clark processes the solar energy he's regaining. That'd give you a lot of replay value too, as you could have vastly different builds for different saves.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  7. #82
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Mxy just nerfing him would be funny, but Mxy could also just buff everyone else. My only desire is to stay away from Kryptonite as the equalizer.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Mxy just nerfing him would be funny, but Mxy could also just buff everyone else. My only desire is to stay away from Kryptonite as the equalizer.
    Would be a good meta joke for gamers who insist on having a proper Superman simulator. I'd be okay with it.

  9. #84
    Extraordinary Member Prime's Avatar
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    I’m redirecting this because I want to discuss how we can actually do a Superman game again. I think a more polished version of DBZ Kakarot holds the key to bringing a Superman game to life.

  10. #85
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I'm curious if the size and scope of stuff like Starfield has changed anyone's mind on what a Superman game could contain?
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  11. #86
    Extraordinary Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'm curious if the size and scope of stuff like Starfield has changed anyone's mind on what a Superman game could contain?
    To be honest I think the first game should be just confine to Metropolis. If something is about to go out bounds the open map either he turns back and says “I can’t just leave the citizens of Metropolis like that” or a pop up widow that says you are leaving the map and to go back.

  12. #87
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'm curious if the size and scope of stuff like Starfield has changed anyone's mind on what a Superman game could contain?
    Starfield shows exactly why asking for Superman to be able to fly across the solar system wouldn’t work. You cannot have 1000 planets and make all of them fun to explore. You can’t have Superman zipping across entire planets and feasibly make that fun with current tech. Majority of Starfield’s planets are extremely boring, after you’ve explored the first five you’ve seen them all. You cannot have an actual continent sized map because that’s “lore accurate” because it won’t be FUN.

    What makes for fun gameplay needs to take precedence over lore or comic accuracy. If that means a Superman who can’t fly faster than light, and isn’t utterly invincible and can be hurt by things other than kryptonite, magic, or red sunlight, then that’s what needs to be done. MAWS just did that so you can’t argue people won’t accept that. Kratos dies to wolves despite being a god, a Superman game needs to prioritize gameplay > lore.
    Last edited by Vordan; 11-07-2023 at 01:55 AM.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  13. #88
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    To be honest I think the first game should be just confine to Metropolis. If something is about to go out bounds the open map either he turns back and says “I can’t just leave the citizens of Metropolis like that” or a pop up widow that says you are leaving the map and to go back.
    I'd be fine with a game that doesn't leave town, but you gotta have more fun with it than that! When Clark hits the city limit, have him drop some random dialogue as he turns around, and not just the typical "The city still needs me!" stuff, let's get some "Did I leave the stove on?" "I forgot to feed Krypto!" "This is the wrong red underwear! I can't be seen in these!"

    I ask about Starfield not because I want a game that expansive, but because it's been debated whether you can do that and still make it viable. I'm still upgrading my rig to run the thing on quality settings so I haven't even played it yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    a Superman game needs to prioritize gameplay > lore.
    I don't think anyone argues with that. I just maintain that this isn't some new character with no preconceived notions; people will want to feel like Superman when playing a Super game, and the gameplay has to provide and reward that sensation while structuring the game mechanics so it still provides a fun, enjoyable challenge. And people have never accepted 'kryptonite fog' or 'everyone's a Kryptonian!' as an excuse for standard beat-em-up Super games in the past and they're unlikely to now, so whoever makes the thing would have to get creative.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  14. #89
    Extraordinary Member Prime's Avatar
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    Those are better options yes. I was just giving and example XD. But I agree with Vordan on what he is saying. The game has to prioritize gameplay over accurate lore power levels. Dante is extremely powerful and he can be killed.

  15. #90
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    And nobody is saying Superman shouldn't be injured or hurt in a game. I'm just saying that if you want a Super game to actually be successful? Then you can't just make a standard beat-em-up, slap the "S" shield on it, and expect it to do well when that has never, ever, ever, ever worked in the past. We're not talking Dante or Kratos or even Cloud Strife, we're talking about a character so entrenched in global consciousness every person on earth is familiar with him, his limits, and his abilities. If another game fails to capture those expectations then it will fail just like all the others.

    Superman Returns (the game) went way too far with the 'can't be hurt' thing and nobody wants that again. But going too far the other way, where every trash mob you come across can kill you? That'll fail too. We know it will fail because it's been done before and it's failed every time. It will not work now.

    Gameplay and mechanics have to rule above all else, obviously. But the trick will be quality mechanics that still capture the 'Super' vibe. They'll have to balance the challenge and risk of failure against making the player feel like Clark. It'll require a delicate touch, careful balance, and outside-the-box thinking and programming.

    Again, has there ever been a successful Superman game that was just a normal beat-em-up? Far as I know there hasn't been.
    Last edited by Ascended; 11-11-2023 at 08:46 AM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

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