Golly, Iris! Sorry I'm late! The Flash (Barry Allen) Appreciation 2023

[MajorHoy]

I'm happy to just not bring up the dead mom for several years now...although it's kind of funny how Barry's dad is still alive but barely appears, I think he only appeared in, like, 3-4 issues of Williamson's run.

Well, it wasn't like Barry could go out to dinner with him or have his dad stay over at his place for a few days.

[Frontier]

Well, it wasn't like Barry could go out to dinner with him or have his dad stay over at his place for a few days.

I think he did actually do that maybe twice during the run. He was out of prison by Williamson's run.

[Batgrayson]

Remember that time in the tv show when Henry was released at the beginning of S2, and he said something like "I love you son....well, now I have to go, live your life, bye"? And then he only came back to be killed by Zoom

I assume it had to be related to time schedules or salary, but it would have been nice having JWS around for lore time. At least he was also Jay and Barry from the 90s tv series again.

[Frontier]

Remember that time in the tv show when Henry was released at the beginning of S2, and he said something like "I love you son....well, now I have to go, live your life, bye"? And then he only came back to be killed by Zoom

I assume it had to be related to time schedules or salary, but it would have been nice having JWS around for lore time. At least he was also Jay and Barry from the 90s tv series again.

To be fair he seemed more invested in playing Jay than he was playing Henry. He said in an interview he thought he'd run out of anything to do with the character by the time they killed him off.

[bat39]

To be fair he seemed more invested in playing Jay than he was playing Henry. He said in an interview he thought he'd run out of anything to do with the character by the time they killed him off.

Yeah, I mean, to be honest Henry Allen on the show was basically a plot device to give Barry added motivation to find his mom's killer. Him being played by JWS, in the time-honored tradition of legacy DC actors returning as supporting characters (usually parents of the protagonist) in new projects, was just one of many tributes to the 90's show. But once he was exonerated, there wasn't much to do with him anyway, so having Zoom kill him off and use that to cause Barry to create Flashpoint made sense.

Having JWS play Jay Garrick was a masterstroke on so many levels.

[Refrax5]

Yeah, I mean, to be honest Henry Allen on the show was basically a plot device to give Barry added motivation to find his mom's killer. Him being played by JWS, in the time-honored tradition of legacy DC actors returning as supporting characters (usually parents of the protagonist) in new projects, was just one of many tributes to the 90's show. But once he was exonerated, there wasn't much to do with him anyway, so having Zoom kill him off and use that to cause Barry to create Flashpoint made sense.

Having JWS play Jay Garrick was a masterstroke on so many levels.

Yeah, I loved JWS playing Jay on the show. Even when my interest in the show itself waned, I always watched the episodes he appeared in.

[bat39]

Yeah, I loved JWS playing Jay on the show. Even when my interest in the show itself waned, I always watched the episodes he appeared in.

Yeah. Sadly there weren't too many.

The show really didn't do much with Jay, Wally and Bart, for one reason or the other.

[MajorHoy]

I think he did actually do that maybe twice during the run. He was out of prison by Williamson's run.

Ah, didn't realize that since I only read maybe three-or-four issues then.

I pretty much lost interest / gave up on Barry when Robert Venditti and Van Jensen took over the writing back during the New52.

[Tomkatie]

Getting back to the comics:

I'm tired of Barry having a dead mom. He went all through the Silver and Bronze Ages, from his creation in the 1950s to his death in the Crisis on Infinite Earths, without a dead mom; and he did fine. As well, the idea that attempting to go back in time to save her necessarily makes a mess of the timeline doesn't sit well for me: in addition to the fact that there used to be a timeline where she was alive and well and the universe wasn't a mess (the pre-Final Crisis timeline), there's also the fact that the Flashpoint changed things about the timeline that saving the life of one middle-class housewife had no business changing.

And if Wally can be salvaged from the train wreck that was Heroes in Crisis, Barry can be rescued from the Flashpoint.

That said, these are comics; and as such, you don't just change it. You tell a compelling story that changes it. Here's how I'd do it:

Start with a Second Flashpoint: something in Barry's past inexplicably changes for the worst, in some outrageous manner. Killing Iris would be the obvious move here, but perhaps that would be too obvious. Whatever it is, Thawne shows up and taunts Barry about it, saying that he caused the change, and that because the Negative Speed Force was involved, Barry can't undo it without shattering the timeline like he did when he tried to save his mother. He then gloats, saying that he's going to do it again and again until Barry's life is a total shambles; and that there's nothing that Barry can do to stop him.

This sets Barry off on a quest to do exactly what Thawne says that he can't. After some investigation, he finds that there's something unnatural that entered into the Negative Speed Force at some point and imbued it with the additional ability to freeze time, which is what Thawne was talking about: attempts to change frozen time will instead trigger a Flashpoint, shattering the timeline in wholely unpredictable ways. But if that thing that entered the Negative Speed Force can be dealt with, the pockets of frozen time will unfreeze, and Barry will be able to set right what Thawne made wrong.

Barry then enters the Negative Speed Force, confronts whatever it is that has been causing the “time freezing” effect to manifest, and defeats it. When he returns from the Negative Speed Force, he then follows through by visiting each of the “frozen time” events that Thawne created and undoing them — notably including his mom's murder. This time, without the artificially frozen time in play, the timeline doesn't shatter, and is instead put right.

Barry then nabs Thawne, throws him in prison, and tells him that there's nothing that he can do that Barry can't undo; his days of screwing up the timeline are over. Maybe even reveal that Thawne is now unable to access Barry's past at all.

Finally, Barry returns home to enjoy his life as his parents stop by for a visit; or some other final event that shows the new status quo that Barry has earned.

I'd definitely read that story, but tbh I’d also be fine if they just didn’t bring up his mom again. Personally my biggest issue with that retcon was just how much writers lingered on retelling that story and how much it traumatized Barry, which was paired with the repeated Flashpoint blame to make him into a mopey Barry cocktail. I'm past that, and it feels like we’re finally at a place in the comics where Barry is past that. I’d rather he just stayed there and reestablished his place in the Flash Family or went on buddy adventures with Hal or Ralph

I’m also not too hasty to bring back Thawne as a villain just yet. Of course he will return at some point because this is comics and he’s marketable as hell, but Barry forgiving him and giving him a second lease on life is the most wholesome way to end their rivalry, and I’d rather not undo that and pit them against each other again

[Tomkatie]

Ah, didn't realize that since I only read maybe three-or-four issues then.

I pretty much lost interest / gave up on Barry when Robert Venditti and Van Jensen took over the writing back during the New52.

I think his dad was exonerated at the end of the Venditti/Jensen run

[Frontier]

Yeah. Sadly there weren't too many.

The show really didn't do much with Jay, Wally and Bart, for one reason or the other.

Well, they didn't have any idea what to do with Wally and then the actor wanted to explore other stuff so it made it harder to bring him back, same with Bart's actor being on Broadway.

[bat39]

Well, they didn't have any idea what to do with Wally and then the actor wanted to explore other stuff so it made it harder to bring him back, same with Bart's actor being on Broadway.

Not knowing what to do with Wally came first, since his actor continued in the Arrowverse for a short while on Legends of Tomorrow.

They always had JWS around and still didn't do much with Jay...to the extent that in the last few seasons, they never even explained basic stuff about Jay, like how he and Joan survived the Arrowverse COIE, which earth did he belong to now, and whether he lived in the present or the future!

Bart's a lot more understandable since he was only around towards the end.

[Frontier]

Not knowing what to do with Wally came first, since his actor continued in the Arrowverse for a short while on Legends of Tomorrow.

They always had JWS around and still didn't do much with Jay...to the extent that in the last few seasons, they never even explained basic stuff about Jay, like how he and Joan survived the Arrowverse COIE, which earth did he belong to now, and whether he lived in the present or the future!

Bart's a lot more understandable since he was only around towards the end.

My understanding is Jay was from Stargirl's Earth-2 and after Crisis ended up in the present-day of Earth-Prime, and they wrote off his Earth-2 adventures as being in the past.

He was finally able to travel back to his original Earth by the time of the Stargirl final scene.

[Dataweaver]

Actually, there's some question as to whether Stargirl's Earth 2 existed before the Crisis. The idea is that the Crisis rewrote Earth 2, producing Stargirl; and that the Jay that had interacted with Barry was folded into the history of Earth Prime. If this theory holds, then the Jay who showed up at the end of Stargirl was a different Jay, just like the Superman featured in Superman & Lois is a different one from the one who appeared in Supergirl, despite being played by the same actor.

[Frontier]

Actually, there's some question as to whether Stargirl's Earth 2 existed before the Crisis. The idea is that the Crisis rewrote Earth 2, producing Stargirl; and that the Jay that had interacted with Barry was folded into the history of Earth Prime. If this theory holds, then the Jay who showed up at the end of Stargirl was a different Jay, just like the Superman featured in Superman & Lois is a different one from the one who appeared in Supergirl, despite being played by the same actor.

Everybody on the crew and cast said it was the same Jay though.