Your thoughts on the current status of the X-books

[Grunty]

That's honestly my biggest pet peeve here. Quite honestly I couldn't care less about your plot if the characters in it don't act like they should and their established relationships and history are completely ignored just so your plot can work. The characters are the actual interesting part that people show up for. If you don't respect that then what are you even doing?

That pretty much pulled me out from the very start. It felt like the writers were playing fast and lose with the characters and seemingly only saw value in what they could do (often even only their powers) to tell the story, rather than the story befitting the characters.

HOX/POX was all about creating this new mythos of mutants and X-men, snapping things into existence and changing established continuity, characterization and motivations with brute force methods to fit into this Foundation style storyline about the cycle of defeat and failure of mutants in order to justify the new direction.

This macro-stroy and it's attempts at being a "big concept" are the main focus, while the characters were bend and broken to fit into it. With clear disregard to their previous relations, actions and motivations unless they are the chosen "big players" of the author or a favorit.

It feels like the X-men simply had too many developed, interconnected and previously important characters for Hickman and co. to handle in order to enforce the grand plan story and radical status quo. So anyone who wasn't singled out as important enough player to get a justification for why they are on board, just fell in line and was magically fine with everything.

And this in turn seems to have set a further precedent for several of the other writers of the current status quo to do the same.

Magneto dies. Does his family got something to say about it? Nah.
Destiny gets revived. Do we involve Rogue in a story that involves her two mothers? Nah, not necessary.
The Cable/Apocalypse thing that Jackraow21 mentioned. Again nope.
Basically the entire Dark Web event. There is so much wrong with how several characters acted in this.
Laura suddenly having an Adamantium skeleton when that has never been a thing before. That's a basic thing that a writer should know about.

Cable's indifference towards Apocalypse being around, feels comparable to AOA Sunfire doing the same and going: "Eh. It's for the sake of mutantkind."

[Galerion]

The current era isn’t about feelings and relationships. It’s more a concept, oddly disembodied.

That pretty much pulled me out from the very start. It felt like the writers were playing fast and lose with the characters and seemingly only saw value in what they could do (often even only their powers) to tell the story, rather than the story befitting the characters.

HOX/POX was all about creating this new mythos of mutants and X-men, snapping things into existence and changing established continuity, characterization and motivations with brute force methods to fit into this Foundation style storyline about the cycle of defeat and failure of mutants in order to justify the new direction.

This macro-stroy and it's attempts at being a "big concept" are the main focus, while the characters were bend and broken to fit into it. With clear disregard to their previous relations, actions and motivations unless they are the chosen "big players" of the author or a favorit.

It feels like the X-men simply had too many developed, interconnected and previously important characters for Hickman and co. to handle in order to enforce the grand plan story and radical status quo. So anyone who wasn't singled out as important enough player to get a justification for why they are on board, just fell in line and was magically fine with everything.

And this in turn seems to have set a further precedent for several of the other writers of the current status quo to do the same.



Cable's indifference towards Apocalypse being around, feels comparable to AOA Sunfire doing the same and going: "Eh. It's for the sake of mutantkind."

You see I could even accept all of this if Hickman would be still the one doing it. He was never known to deliver many outstanding character moments because that's not his strength as writer. He excels at world building. That's why everyone comes to him to do this kind of stuff. But now we are in this weird spot where the architect has left the site and the rest of the workers are just hammering nails into walls because all they have left is a few hastily scribbled notes. It's a fact that they have already deviated from Hickmans original plans as we can see with the handling of Moira. Not to put down all the others writers by the way. They are all good in their own right but the X-office is currently still in a state where they try to mimic Hickman and the results of that are personal preference to put it that way.

I for one still see personalities, histories and relationships of characters ignored in a attempt to push a narrative while at the same time we don't even get great world building. Where is the exploration of mutant culture? How would immortality change a society? What's the deal with the Waiting Room? What is deal with with Arakko? They are a concept that got introduced only for them to be blown up two times in a row. Clearly actually utilizing all these concepts when it counts is of no interest.

[Alan2099]

You can do all the world building you want, but if you don't have interesting people to inhabit that world it's just going to feel empty.

[Sisterhood Of Mutants]

What I am reading
Red, Immortal (only for the art of Mystique and Destiny at this point), Storm & the Brotherhood of Mutants, Rogue & Gambit (basically just for the art and variant covers at this point)

Captain Marvel is the best X-Men team book of the Krakoan era and it’s not even close.

How I’m liking the status quo
My feelings on it soured pretty quickly. Aside from just base-level stuff, aka feeling as though Hickman was pushed out while most (if not all) other writers are hilariously uncritical of the entire concept of Krakoa in-universe (and seem to think that the villains are the only reason it would ever have to fail)… the centering around the same ten characters for the past four years stopped being cute long ago. Aside from Ewing’s books, so much world-building and exploration of more complicated stories teased by Hickman are ignored in favor of relaunches of stealth-solos-masquerading as team books getting repeated relaunches.

More specifically for me, it’s tough in terms of my fav characters. Storm is finally getting her flowers after ages of sidelining (only after the X-Office got rightfully blasted on social media for their racism during the summer of 2020), and I’ve been thrilled to see Mystique reunited with Destiny. But I’ll never understand what that office has been playing at with Rogue. Erasing her from Inferno? Fine, cuts always happen, and I could begrudgingly accept it as a necessary evil…

…and then they proceeded to keep her away from her mothers the rest of this whole era.

Irene, who we last saw her tearfully embracing in Legacy. Raven, who attended her wedding just to walk her daughter down the aisle, despite loathing her husband. Cool.

Then all the interaction we get is a few pages of needless Gambit-bashing from the mother who never met him - something that I don’t love when it’s already en vogue by dudes working behind the scenes of that office to bash said character. Meanwhile, I don’t think Rogue and Mystique have spoke of one another or even existed on the same page this entire era, minus a single panel from Karma’s Love Unlimited.

Mystique is one of my all-time favorite characters, but her complicated relationships with Irene and Rogue both are a huge part of why. Seeing it (and Rogue herself) completely ignored because of writer disinterest at best, editorial interference at worst… that really, really bothers me.

I know continuity can often be a joke in superhero comics, but this isn’t just ignoring something like a previous writer’s unpopular retcon - this is ignoring her entire history.

I’m not one of those people who treats superhero comics like Power Fantasy Football and is only happy if their ~fav is lauded as the most Omega, worshiped by all characters of the opposite sex, on the cover of almost every title, etc. I’m just sick of Rogue getting treated like wallpaper by that office despite her continued popularity with not just fans, but a bunch of writers they refuse to let write or spotlight her. I just wanted her to have stories - or, ****, since that’s asking too much - just some pages of thoughtful interaction with some of the characters who make the most sense with her history: or barring that? Just stop with this new era’s trend of treating her as a flat, humorless workhorse. It’s wildly OOC and makes zero sense.

The deliberate sidelining of Rogue and Gambit both outside of Claremont minis (and Marvel writers not beholden to the X-Office signing off on it) really gives me flashbacks of reading fanfiction as a kid where other adolescent writers would flatten, bash, or erase other characters they viewed as “threatening” to their chosen lead. Little **** like keeping her off every single piece of promo art for this era, multiple characters suddenly with her very specific hairstyle getting spotlight and confusing fans looking at vague solicits (is that Rogue, or Tempus? or Domino? or Vault Laura? or—) read as deliberate trolling. This era is truly giving me that vibe in spades. (Feige announcing that current books will be future MCU/D+ IP is likely playing a part, since editorial bias has always existed but not quite to this degree.)

Thoughts on FoX
If the main editor and his writers’ room stays the same, it really makes me no difference to me. My intrinsic issues with the status quo aren’t going to change, so new wallpaper doesn’t matter.

What I’m hoping for
New X-editor. New writers. (Al Ewing can stay.) Everyone else, I gently shoo back to 2000AD.

Put Kelly Thompson in charge of Adjectiveless or X-Factor. Give Leah Williams and Vita Ayala ongoings.

Bring in fresh blood, particularly female writers and writers of color. (Aka no more parading around your sole remaining female writer whose series you kept rebooting solely to use as “proof” that it’s not still a boys’ club echo chamber.) Let them have a say, don’t use them as a shield for criticism you got post-BLM on your lack of diversity and slowly erase them when you think people won’t notice.

Have a diverse room that doesn’t begin and end with Marvel Voices and Pride issues as far as print. Bring over the actual diverse voices spotlighted by the editors actually doing their job over on Unlimited. Having your characters meant to represent Otherness guided and written almost exclusively by a room of cis white men… is really a choice.

(Oh - and let someone of Japanese descent start writing the swath of Japanese characters who’ve been steeped in western stereotypes about us for decades, for the love of god - especially my beloveds Kwannon and Sunfire. We saw some great stuff with Kwannon in Hellions. But it would also be cool to occasionally let POC tell our own stories aside from yearly anthologies or digital only one-offs.)

Meanwhile, Marvel’s EIC is still a white man who pretended to be Japanese to get published. So these asks are probably too much.

[Kingdom X]

Sisterhood that was a word!

You really put into writing how I’d been feeling about some of the office dynamics in a really eloquent way. The Rogue/ Mystique/ Destiny stuff has always been odd to me. I get that Irene and Raven are each others true loves, but they also both care DEEPLY about Rogue even if it’s in unhealthy ways sometimes. So it’s weird to see Irene solely care about Mystique’s well-being in SoS without a single mention of her daughter. Also the Destiny hates Gambit, bit is so unimaginative.

It is really unfortunate that POC writers in the X-Office seem to only be getting mini’s and digital series. LaValle has consistently killed it and I hope he keeps getting work w/ the office. The Karma Unlimited series was amazing and could have easily ended up in a print series. I am really excited to see what Stephanie Williams has in store, but I was also excited for Alyssa Wong to join the office and she ended up doing Deadpool.

[Slicknickshady]

Dumpster Fire!

[Wind Rider]

Currently Reading
X-Men Red (Ewing has been an amazing writer of his cast)
Immortal X-Men
X-Men
X-Force
Marauders
(All event books - Storm & the Brotherhood, Immoral X-Men, & Nightcrawlers

Fall of X
Looking forward to it, but I am hoping it isnÂ’t a predictable and ceremonious end to the Krakoan era, but maybe some sort of shake-up that redirects the focus of the X-books (w/ clear fall out from SoS).

Future Hopes
I really hope this era continues. It has not been perfect but quite good overall. Red really needs more time to & grow contiune the of the cast development and world building. I'd like to Cable get an expanded role in Red, maybe have Polaris join with Storm's Brotherhood and in a co-lead role while Storm is focused on the second coming of Genesis & the fam. Immortal has grown on me and there is so much to cover w/ the fall put of SoS Id like to see that title continue. X-Force Ive liked but could use some new direction.

[Master of Sound]

What I would keep is:
X-Men, the way they handle it now it quite good. Maybe just keep the cast for 2 years instead of 1. This way we can deepening in the teams dynamics and the character relationships within the team.
Red X-Men, I love how they are handling Planet Arakko and the Arakki mutants. Love to see more.
Mini series, I love the concept of several 5 or 6 part mini series that focus on mutants who are not on one of the teams.

What I would change:
X-Force. The concept is nice, but rather see it as the Black Ops team. Keep Wolverine, Sage and Domino. Add former members Archangel, Laura and Vanisher (they need a teleporter and he is funny). That makes 6, we need a hot heads and a calm reasonable member, so add Hellion and Dust.
Immortal X-Men. Keep the title, but focus more on life on KLrakoa, But of course with the Counsil and the Five in it.

What I would add:
Secret X-Men, have an swift operating X-Men team, with Gambit & Rogue co-leaders and a rotating cast of young or barely used X-Men, with Ariel as regular member. mortal X-Men, love the focus on the council and perhaps focus a bit more on life on Krakoa.

[charliehustle415]

it's a solid B- for me, and it's only elevated by Ewing & Gillen.

what holds it back is the fact that all of it is a giant tease with no real catharsis for the reader.

give me a solid endgame, because right now it feels like they're writing 12 issue arcs and then flying by the seat of their pants and it makes it feel like a hodge podge of story telling.

[Devaishwarya]

Yupp.
They really lost all sense of cohesion and interconnection, all for the sake of wanting to tell their own individual stories...so it feels very much all over the place like pre-HoX X-franchise.

Early on, under Hickman, they all seemed to be on the same page (however, I'm willing to bet that being "guided" in their storytelling ranckled a few and that's why (one of the reasons anyway) Hickman stepped away earlier than planned...JDW and Hickman admitted as much in XMM...they just made it seem amicable) but now having been left to their own devices, they couldn't hold it together, and lost sight of what this new era was supposed to be about.

[PolarIceFire]

THIS...

... CB Cebulski... he spoke about... a new storyline that... will apparently bring a lot of buzz...

... yup CB said... we just, just, just approved a storyline I think that will be one of THE big buzz books at the end of this year...

is the cruX of their problem.

The most important thing for their "storytelling" now is... being controversial(?), I guess, in order to draw attention. What it tells me is that they lack the strength of their (own) convictions and/or... *don't trust* them.

... that's why (one of the reasons anyway) Hickman stepped away earlier than planned...JDW and Hickman admitted as much in XMM...they just made it *seem* amicable...

Yeah, it wasn't hard to read between the lines & see that there was no love lost between them, especially w/White getting his snarky, li'l digs in. I think he referred to him as a, ahem... "former villain." The lack of maturity, not to mention professionalism, was quite revealing.

[PolarIceFire]

That said, I've always found the best way to *prevent* smoke from turning into a fire is... depriving it of oXygen. Thankfully, whether consciously or not, that seems to be happening. Personally, I chalk it up to karma.

[charliehustle415]

Yupp.
They really lost all sense of cohesion and interconnection, all for the sake of wanting to tell their own individual stories...so it feels very much all over the place like pre-HoX X-franchise.

Early on, under Hickman, they all seemed to be on the same page (however, I'm willing to bet that being "guided" in their storytelling ranckled a few and that's why (one of the reasons anyway) Hickman stepped away earlier than planned...JDW and Hickman admitted as much in XMM...they just made it seem amicable) but now having been left to their own devices, they couldn't hold it together, and lost sight of what this new era was supposed to be about.

yeah totally if and when Ewing leaves, Gillen alone cannot hold my attention (I don't need a 3 year storyline with Sinister)

[Winter_fury]

Yupp.
They really lost all sense of cohesion and interconnection, all for the sake of wanting to tell their own individual stories...so it feels very much all over the place like pre-HoX X-franchise.

Early on, under Hickman, they all seemed to be on the same page (however, I'm willing to bet that being "guided" in their storytelling ranckled a few and that's why (one of the reasons anyway) Hickman stepped away earlier than planned...JDW and Hickman admitted as much in XMM...they just made it seem amicable) but now having been left to their own devices, they couldn't hold it together, and lost sight of what this new era was supposed to be about.

Agreed i would argue it feels like the extraordinary/all-new and Gold/Blue era just with karkoa as the back drop instead of limbo or the school.

[bat22]

Dumpster Fire!

My attitude in a nutshell for what's become of the X-Men over the last decade. Isolationists on an island, elitists among mutants, decadent galas, consorting with criminals and mass murderers, "resurrection" devices, inconsistent portrayals, ho yay ships... It's all one big clusterf__k of fan fiction between writers and a select niche of comic book readers. Not that my wallet is complaining.