I'm bored of this Krakoan Era, and ready to move on to new stories

[jwatson]

I still prefer this era and i'm not going to act like when it a flying off the shelves and doing well digitally marvel stopped the train on their own because of "paper shortage" like "omg lets stop all forms of revenue because shops can't order books" when instead it was the perfect time to test the digital footprint. I don't forget the month long pauses while they shifted the tone, got rid of the diverse writers, broke up the writers room, let percy do whatever he wants because apparently it "sells" but never asked the right question why the one book everyone seems to not be that into is the longest running. It has to be more than just wolverine cause even his fans aren't raving about it. Then the bastardization of mutants with Judgement day.

I am still trying to figure out what was the point or need to turn mutants into deviants. Then what came to fruition on mutants not being themselves after resurrection was not a thing until now in Gillien's second event where SInister has corrupted them and all of a sudden those deniers at the start was right. It was from a creative buffett to a second rate class on how to destroy quality in favor of the known and for people who fee they own the characters. But eh


In one year we had them turned into the deviants are the MU, we have had them judged, we have had their protocols corrupted, moira go beyond insane, orichis winning every battle, but somehow, somehow, i guess that was GOOD times to the people at Marvel, and now it's tim for a Fall. No interest. I'm sitting fall out to see where things land.

[JB]

Krakoa-lovers and Krakoa-apologists reactions to Krakoa-haters are almost always:

You just want to go back to the school/mansion. That sucks, we've had all those stories we need for a long, long time.
You just want to see mutants subjugated and abused again. Homo Superior forever! Krakoa Forever!
Go read your back issues if that's what you want.
X-Men Gold proves the school stories don't work anymore.
Etc.

Okay, there's a lot more wrong with the Krakoa era than just the setting. You could make a list as long as your arm. How anyone can buy into this as a continuation of the stories and characters fans have read for decades is beyond me. It's closer to an Age of Apocalypse style-thing without admitting that is what it is. The school was a base not a prison stories were confined to. Krakoa is mutant supremacy, and the X-Men still acting like heroes in selected examples here and there doesn't change that, anymore than pointing to instances of other trees somehow makes the Redwood Forest anything other than that. The only thing X-Men Gold proved was that it didn't work, and for all it's faults the characters were far more true and the stories more enjoyable in it than anything X-Related being produced today that isn't set in the past.

That’s probably because no real alternative proposal has been presented other than “go back to the way things were.” Once again a thread has been dropped on the board and the OP vanishes with seemingly no intention of engaging in conversation. If I had a dollar for every time this happened I’d be typing this from my yacht.

[marhawkman]

My opinion since the start has been the problem isn't the concept, its how most of the writers engage with the concept. A large portion of the problems with it stem from a) using it more as an aesthetic than an actual setting and concept, w/a lot of surface level stuff but not a ton of actually digging into the concept and the range of possibilities it opens up and b) half the writers seeming genuinely interested in it and various themes it raises while the other half treats it as a source of clickbait and aim more to drum up controversy and discourse than actually explore anything with it.

Then you have idiocy like that External mini-arc they did.... where Apoccy just whacks them and now they're gone. not much fun to bring back characters who haven't been seen for years if you're just gonna kill them off. I ssoooo wanna see Candra and Selene kick the QC's asses for that one!

[Mr. White]

Not really, though I would prefer it to evolve/ have a bit more definition.

And by that, I mean things like:
- Forge's vision of Krakoa becoming an established city/country (like Wakanda or Latveria) being the status quo as against looking like a vacation destination
- New and old enemies playing the role of actual antagonists and associated adventures/battles/etc;
- The Quiet Council being an actual governing body (this is tough as I think Immortal X-Men is one of the better books);
- X-Force doing their job and functioning as a proper unit/department;
- Marauders sticking to their mission statement (don't read it but from threads here it doesn't seem to be doing that);
- Etcetera

[Omega Alpha]

That’s probably because no real alternative proposal has been presented other than “go back to the way things were.” Once again a thread has been dropped on the board and the OP vanishes with seemingly no intention of engaging in conversation. If I had a dollar for every time this happened I’d be typing this from my yacht.

Exactly. Also, anyone that says X-Men Gold was better than anything in Krakoa is not really interested in serious conversation.

[jwatson]

I guess the simpliest question for me would be why was the new guy given the reigns to do all the events instead of the og's that were actually there and building this. But let's give the one guy with no ties to what was built in the sense that beyond concept he hasn't tried to really explore krakoa for what it was suppose to be in any of his work. First it was judging them and then straight to a worst case alternative and next up a fall

Also krakoa is presented as a vacation destination because that is how writers choose to write it. Lavalle showed it could be more. It was a lot more in the beginning with x-of swords etc and otherworld but then the tone was shifted as as a way to mock it as a tourist destination then we went through one heinous thing after another all happening internally and were robbed of stories like sword, or x-men red stifled, or hellions, or the many other great books far more fun and interesting than anything,


-deviate them
-judge them
-destory resurrection protocols
-infiltrate the council
-make the council all sinister
-moira evil ya'll
back to back to back without even trying to recapture or explore what was making it good. You can't blame a great concept for the problems of limited imagination and inherent creative bias. ESPECIALLY when you can't blame it on the money.

[PolarIceFire]

My feelings, from:

... a recent thread about opinions on the current state

Your thoughts on the current status of the X-books...

Same.

They left an era of decimation and pain and suffering. Started anew and fresh, big and bold. Then...within 24 hrs went right back to decimation and pain and suffering with a lethal dose of internal corruption thrown in for good measure. I don't know if that was the initial intent but it seemed that they never really gave Krakoa an opportunity to actually become a stable society before tearing it all down and apart. As much as I love the Arakkii now...that whole lengthy XoSwords time frame could have been put to much better use. It wasted and derailed a lot of time and potential so early in the new era.

Yep, pandemic notwithstanding, it's been almost 4 yrs. now and...

... Krakoan worldbuilding...

we're still waiting for them to deliver on the promise of the concept, while simultaneously watching the opportunity be squandered.

Now, after the eXcellence of HoX (gonna sidestep PoX, as time travel/divergent AUs are the new death for me, when it comes to overused, storytelling *tactics*) I do feel they stumbled some, right out of the gate. I agree that X-Force was the strongest & hit the hardest @1st, but also really liked Hickman's NM & actually felt it > his X-Men issues of the same number, overall. I liked Marauders, too, for its general entertainment value & how it most felt like the tour guide of this new world. Excalibur had me the most interested w/the intro of Rictor's role but couldn't maintain that level of engagement. FA was lost on me, I'll never understand how it ever even got greenlit in the 1st place, TBH. Marauders ended up winning in the end, as it was the most consistent with what it offered. I'm sure my bias toward Bobby was a BIG part of that, just his presence alone gave it an automatic edge, same w/NM 'cause of Dani. That goes for AleX in H & Lorna *everywhere* she's been, too, I hafta admit.

Then, as Dev said, came XoS & it totally fumbled the ball IMO. Unnecessarily overstuffed w/some truly bizarre, head-scratching, what-were-they-thinking decisions. The downtime did them no favors, as the padding they added proved to be an absolute drag on the proceedings & the entire line. But I felt they recovered immediately w/Reign, Hellions was going strong, XFAQ returned, and SWORD debuted. Before too long though, in the runup to the 1st HfG, it did seem like they were trying to run out the clock. The inaugural bash had some neat things to it, but I think the 2nd's approach proved to be the better way to go & am glad they decided the same w/the upcoming 3rd. Thereafter we gotta solid bump, by way of a nice boost from the OG, newly "elected" X-team & more, I felt. But then came another fumble w/ToM & a complete interception w/Inferno, wherein they still have yet to get the ball back. Contrivance was always part of the recipe, right from the get-go. But with Destiny it has become the overwhelming main ingredient, to wherein it's all been rendered rather flavorless by feeling so forced. Per my personal taste(s) that is, of course, so YMMV.

If I were voting just based on HoX/Dawn & Reign, I'd pick the 2nd option, but if it were solely on Destiny it'd be the 1st.

That said, this sums up pretty well where I currently stand:

Can I offer a "I like the concepts and worldbuiding, but I hate the execution" as a 3rd option?

Other than specific exceptions I haven't been picking up many books in this era that I've truly enjoyed and have dropped several I really wanted to enjoy.

There are many issues I'd like answered and so many world-building pieces I'd like to see far more of.

@the door, w/1 foot still in, and the other... moving to step out.

I'd like to continue championing the current status quo, but TPTB @Marvel & the X-office in particular, seem to be doing everything in their power to tell me...

they don't want me... to.

So, FUCK THEM!!

... I have better things to do with my time.

Especially after some really great, new personal, RL developments, this past wk.

But rest assured, I won't go quietly, as I'm sure many of you, are already aware of.

[starduck]

The Krakoan era has gotten boring lately, It feels like it was meant to end a while ago but stayed due to fan demand.

I also feel that redeeming most of their iconic villains was a huge mistake. Though it's funny when they inevitably betray them and the xmen always act shocked that it happened

[JB]

The Krakoan era has gotten boring lately, It feels like it was meant to end a while ago but stayed due to fan demand.

I also feel that redeeming most of their iconic villains was a huge mistake. Though it's funny when they inevitably betray them and the xmen always act shocked that it happened

I keep going back to the "detour" they decided to take from Hickman's roadmap as the cause of the bored feeling some feel. I feel it to an extent to. He had a 3 year plan and imo starting with X Lives/Deaths is when you could feel the holding pattern begin. It's interesting because a lot of great stories have come out of this time and some really solid issues, but overall there's a feeling of when are they going to get back on track? That seems to be with Fall of X as it's now been said a few times that much of what is coming was discussed at the very beginning of the X-Slack retreats and chats. That's why many stories seemed to drag on because they were meant to conclude sooner. We often talk about the Colossus plot going on for 4 years and now we see his issue of Immortal is connected to the Fall of X.

Hopefully things will feel exciting again as they steer the ship back to its original course.

[marhawkman]

The Krakoan era has gotten boring lately, It feels like it was meant to end a while ago but stayed due to fan demand.

I also feel that redeeming most of their iconic villains was a huge mistake. Though it's funny when they inevitably betray them and the xmen always act shocked that it happened

Or in Selene's case do a shocked Pikachu face when they betray her, and somehow don't expect her to want payback?

[Soulsword323]

I love it. The writing isn't as strong as it was, or could be, but it's all very exciting. The X-Men really need more fresh blood with big ideas.

The X-Franchise needed to be pushed forward, and focusing on building a community vs building bridges is compelling.

As others of said, I don't know how going back to the school is going to really change anything or make things more interesting. And those who complain seem to have no alternative when posed with what they think the franchise needs.

[Saithor]

Or in Selene's case do a shocked Pikachu face when they betray her, and somehow don't expect her to want payback?

I'm still waiting for Emma and Kate's shocked Pikachu faces when they realize dealing with Cassandra Nova by just dumping her in the past is not going to solve that issue.

Made my opinions known in the other thread. Concept is fine, worldbuilding was rushed and contrived in order to make it work. Characters were made to serve whatever role was needed for them irregardless of continuity or personality. Books seemed to be fighting each other on what the message was going to be until Hickman left. The mutant equivalent of Genghis Khan somehow still exists and became an ambassador despite by the sliding time scale trying to kill the majority of the world population a year or so ago.

[cranger]

As others of said, I don't know how going back to the school is going to really change anything or make things more interesting. And those who complain seem to have no alternative when posed with what they think the franchise needs.

I need receipts if this is going to keep being a thing.

[Soulsword323]

I need receipts if this is going to keep being a thing.

??????

What world shattering ideas have you or others presented??

[cranger]

??????

What world shattering ideas have you or others presented??

Who even brought up 'going back to the school'? Where is your example of someone being challenged on coming up with a new idea? Why does someone have to come up with a better idea (i.e., one that you like) to explain why they are not happy with the books right now? This is a strawman and really is not needed. Your opinion on Krakoa stands on its own merit. Your enjoyment of the stories happens whether other people like it or not. If someone came up with a brilliant idea would it change your mind on this era?