How religious do you think Supergirl is?

[Ascended]

It has always been wierd for me.The notion of religion being true or false.I could never wrap my head around the concept.

I suppose that's the point? If it could be proven true or false it wouldn't be "faith" yeah?

Within the comic book sphere where you've got beings from damn near every religion all co-existing it becomes a weird mix of contradictions and overlap where none of it can really be true because everything somehow is.

Power of belief, I guess.

And I have almost no idea what all this "Kara grew up watching earth tv on Argo" stuff is. Silver Age origin I imagine, I've never actually read Kara's first appearance so I'm assuming that's where that comes from? But that origin is like, three reboots old and I don't think it carried over, nor does that really fit the way Kara's been written since her post-Crisis return.

What did religion look like on current-canon Krypton? If they had abandoned it like the post-Crisis Krypton did then Kara wouldn't grow up religious at all, and probably knows nothing about ancient Raoism other than it existed and was outlawed long before her birth.

[DABellWrites]

I suppose that's the point? If it could be proven true or false it wouldn't be "faith" yeah?

Within the comic book sphere where you've got beings from damn near every religion all co-existing it becomes a weird mix of contradictions and overlap where none of it can really be true because everything somehow is.

Power of belief, I guess.

And I have almost no idea what all this "Kara grew up watching earth tv on Argo" stuff is. Silver Age origin I imagine, I've never actually read Kara's first appearance so I'm assuming that's where that comes from? But that origin is like, three reboots old and I don't think it carried over, nor does that really fit the way Kara's been written since her post-Crisis return.

What did religion look like on current-canon Krypton? If they had abandoned it like the post-Crisis Krypton did then Kara wouldn't grow up religious at all, and probably knows nothing about ancient Raoism other than it existed and was outlawed long before her birth.

Uh, no. Apparently it came Adventures of Superman, I think written by Mark Millar. I don't even know if that's canon to be honest.

Which also means that none of them are. Not in the way folks in the real world consider religion, anyway.

We should also consider how punching gods in the face impacts one's faith in religion.

There's no doubt in my mind that Clark believes in a higher power, but I don't think Clark views religion the same way we do.

I don't think anybody in the DCU should have our view of religion to be honest. The Gods are real, you have beings like Darkseid fighting Superman. Something worthy to explore.

[Ascended]

Uh, no. Apparently it came Adventures of Superman, I think written by Mark Millar. I don't even know if that's canon to be honest

Ah okay. So only two reboots old then, and from a series of (mostly?) out of continuity tales in the first place?

But still, Waid made the "foster home" thing canon again so I shouldn't guess what they're saying is or isn't canon anymore until I see the page/s for myself.

But if Kara did grow up watching American tv? That's just f*ckin' dumb.

I don't think anybody in the DCU should have our view of religion to be honest. The Gods are real, you have beings like Darkseid fighting Superman. Something worthy to explore.

I think there'd be some surprising differences, absolutely. But I also think it might be surprising in what *doesn't* change too. People are funny with religion, and believe what they want no matter what kind of argument or evidence is presented against them.

I figure in the DCU, there's more religions being practiced than in reality, and the big major faiths of the real world are probably still the big major faiths but don't have as large a membership. Dead mythologies are likely alive and well. There's probably some sizeable "hodge podge" religions that try to make sense of DC's weird cosmology and mix lots of things together (akin to Dune's Orange Catholic bible perhaps). I don't think we have much in the way of real-world comparisons to that?

And we know there's cults that follow all manner of things, from the speed force to Superman. The people of Khandaq worship Black Adam don't they? That's likely a UN recognized religion. And without doubt Diana has a global following. I've often wondered, as a demigod, how she feels about that.

I think there might be more atheists too, honestly. Mr. Terrific has an excellent argument for his views; beings of great power are not necessarily gods or responsible for creation. Lots of heroes have defeated gods. Doesn't say much for divinity. How are these gods supposed to have created everything when they can't even beat up a nerdy csi? Hard to blame people like Michael Holt for not having faith in god when he's seen gods brought down by science and raw muscle.

[DABellWrites]

Ah okay. So only two reboots old then, and from a series of (mostly?) out of continuity tales in the first place?

But still, Waid made the "foster home" thing canon again so I shouldn't guess what they're saying is or isn't canon anymore until I see the page/s for myself.

But if Kara did grow up watching American tv? That's just f*ckin' dumb.



I think there'd be some surprising differences, absolutely. But I also think it might be surprising in what *doesn't* change too. People are funny with religion, and believe what they want no matter what kind of argument or evidence is presented against them.

I figure in the DCU, there's more religions being practiced than in reality, and the big major faiths of the real world are probably still the big major faiths but don't have as large a membership. Dead mythologies are likely alive and well. There's probably some sizeable "hodge podge" religions that try to make sense of DC's weird cosmology and mix lots of things together (akin to Dune's Orange Catholic bible perhaps). I don't think we have much in the way of real-world comparisons to that?

And we know there's cults that follow all manner of things, from the speed force to Superman. The people of Khandaq worship Black Adam don't they? That's likely a UN recognized religion. And without doubt Diana has a global following. I've often wondered, as a demigod, how she feels about that.

I think there might be more atheists too, honestly. Mr. Terrific has an excellent argument for his views; beings of great power are not necessarily gods or responsible for creation. Lots of heroes have defeated gods. Doesn't say much for divinity. How are these gods supposed to have created everything when they can't even beat up a nerdy csi? Hard to blame people like Michael Holt for not having faith in god when he's seen gods brought down by science and raw muscle.

Christianity is inspired by a lot of old faiths, closes we can get.

[Ascended]

Believe the term you want is "stole from" a lot of faiths actually. But yeah, I can see some kind of religious fusion gaining traction in certain circles, trying to make sense of how all these different gods and divinities, including ones from beyond earth, can all co-exist. But we also know for a fact that all the major religions are still popular, because we meet characters who go to those churches, so I figure the DCU has a religious landscape that's more dynamic than ours.

I wanna say I've read somewhere about real-world efforts to remix all religions into a singular faith. Don't believe any of those attempts ever got anywhere, but much like Dune, I can see the attempt working (at least a bit) in the DCU.

[Filbert]

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[Thor-Ul]

Christianity is inspired by a lot of old faiths, closes we can get.

And christianity also had influenced the version we get of old faiths too. Syncretism.

[Ascended]

And christianity also had influenced the version we get of old faiths too. Syncretism.

Oh, good point. Aren't many/most of the records and stories we have about Norse mythology largely from something a christian wrote? I've read theories and arguments that what that missionary (or whatever he was) wrote wasn't necessarily a proper accounting, and had some parts scrubbed to make it more digestible to christian readers. Or something along those lines anyway?

[Thor-Ul]

Oh, good point. Aren't many/most of the records and stories we have about Norse mythology largely from something a christian wrote? I've read theories and arguments that what that missionary (or whatever he was) wrote wasn't necessarily a proper accounting, and had some parts scrubbed to make it more digestible to christian readers. Or something along those lines anyway?

I remember having reading or seen a documental , something similar in some studies. Also, the use of the greek myths in the Divine Comedy influenced a lot the perception not only of christian hell and paradise, but also the vision of the greek myths, changing in somecases the opposite of their initial meaning. As for example, the vision we have of Hades is pretty negative, but in the myths Hades was the most correct of all the thre sons of Chronos. And the myth of Pandora have a whole different meaning because for the greeks, hope was not something good but just another evil, pretty contrary to what we consider hope to be. Considering hope as something positive is a christian value. And its tha intnetion what most recounts of the Pandora myth repeat.

[Ascended]

That's true. Actually a lot of what we know of Greek myth largely comes from....Athens, I think? But we know that other regions handled the religion a little differently. Athens, of course, painted Athena is a positive light but had less love for Ares, but if you went over to Sparta, Ares was seen more positively and the same general story would be adjusted to make him look better.

I think. Been a long time since I read anything about any of this.

Not that my example has anything to do with christianity specifically, but still; what we think we know about these old religions isn't always accurate. Even when rival faiths aren't screwing with stuff, our records are incomplete and are often supplemented by secondary accounts like plays and comedies and poems, which may have changed things we're not aware of.

I've sometimes wondered (and don't take this musing seriously because I don't): Did the ancient Greeks really worship these gods, or was that just their version of the Avengers? We have all these artifacts from the past, plates and busts and walls carved and painted with the gods....but a thousand years from now some future historian might pick through the remains of my house and come to the conclusion that I worshiped Superman. Would that future historian not see the remains of my collectibles and posters and such, and see what we see looking at ancient Greek excavations? There were statues of the gods in ancient Greece, but there's statues of Superman today. We put effort into preserving our nerd merch, bagging and sealing stuff so it's not damaged, while our bibles lay in a cabinet completely open to the air, mold, etc. What's more likely to survive the marches of time, that bible you forgot was in your sock drawer, or the comic you carefully stored in a climate-controlled safe room? Which would a future historian think you valued more?

[Thor-Ul]

That's true. Actually a lot of what we know of Greek myth largely comes from....Athens, I think? But we know that other regions handled the religion a little differently. Athens, of course, painted Athena is a positive light but had less love for Ares, but if you went over to Sparta, Ares was seen more positively and the same general story would be adjusted to make him look better.

Well, it was not that way. Sparta had Ares as their patron I think but they adored all the gods. Also, Ares was not a well seen god. That idea, than each city had its ods is a idea popularizated by modern culture. Spartans more importants festival were dedicated to Apollo, which kinda was strange if we believe than Spartans were followers of Ares. The ones who idolatred a versuion of Ares were the Romans, who considered Mars their main protector. In greek myths Ares was mocked (a human warrior defeat him in Troy!), but in the roman version, Mars was a lot more fearsome, but also a protective figure.
(And that is why I prefer the George Perez interpretation of the roman gods being different from the greek gods. There were differences beyond only the names. Like cricket and baseball, similar but not the same)

I think. Been a long time since I read anything about any of this.

Not that my example has anything to do with christianity specifically, but still; what we think we know about these old religions isn't always accurate. Even when rival faiths aren't screwing with stuff, our records are incomplete and are often supplemented by secondary accounts like plays and comedies and poems, which may have changed things we're not aware of.

That is true. Most of tose so called "antique knowledge" is more recent than we could imagine. The more we learn, the least we know.

I've sometimes wondered (and don't take this musing seriously because I don't): Did the ancient Greeks really worship these gods, or was that just their version of the Avengers? We have all these artifacts from the past, plates and busts and walls carved and painted with the gods....but a thousand years from now some future historian might pick through the remains of my house and come to the conclusion that I worshiped Superman. Would that future historian not see the remains of my collectibles and posters and such, and see what we see looking at ancient Greek excavations? There were statues of the gods in ancient Greece, but there's statues of Superman today. We put effort into preserving our nerd merch, bagging and sealing stuff so it's not damaged, while our bibles lay in a cabinet completely open to the air, mold, etc. What's more likely to survive the marches of time, that bible you forgot was in your sock drawer, or the comic you carefully stored in a climate-controlled safe room? Which would a future historian think you valued more?

Don't fall in the presentism, my friend. I am sure there were people who really believed and adored those gods and there were others who din't believed in them or even din0't believed they were good. And there were the others who thinked they represented something else and the myths were something more deep and not only stories to explain the world. We only can grasp little of what was to live there and imagining what the gods really could be.
About your second theory... well, it is somekind of adoration, isn't? Have you ever whear of the Maradona church? The saints whom hitmen pray? If you tell me there is a church for Superman in real life, I would be willing to believe it. Peoble adores stranger things.... I mean, not "Stranger Things", I mean... you know!