Will Jon Kent suffer the same destiny as Chris Kent?

[Thor-Ul]

The unfortunate thing is that Jon will probably outlast Kon. Simply because he is the biological son of Superman. It really does set Kon up for a dramatic demise/sacrifice at some point.

I don't think being the son of Superman helps Jon in this case. Ok, we can assume than Superman never is going to retire (not unless it be in an elseworld or a potential future), and it is more possible than they reboot everything again before going that route. Jon, being the perpetual heir to the thorne it becomes aproblem of his own by always being the heir to a throne which never is going to be left. Meanwhile Connor is tied to one of the most famous Superman stories and two, his origin don't demand than Superman must be married or engaged if the case of a new reboot ever happens (a possibility we can't leaft out). The existence of teen Jon is more problematic for him than for Kon.

[Ascended]

Jon's origin is incompatible with Young Justice entirely, and needs an update.

Seems to me YJ is what needs the update. Most of DC's continuity, insofar as they have any these days, is built with Jon and Damian in mind. It's YJ that sticks out here; they've refused to grow up like they were supposed to. If history says Conner, and by extension YJ, should be closer to 25 than 15, rolling with that makes much more sense than trying to contract and condense the entire DCU history for the benefit of four characters (who haven't been worth that kind of renovation in a long time).

And more to the point I was making; that's the kind of growth that maybe these guys need. I'm sure we could twist the history around so it supports the idea of Tim and co. still being in their late teens or early 20's....but why do we want that? They can't occupy the same space they did because Damian, Jon, Yara, and Wallace are all doing the "teen sidekick/legacy" thing now. Let YJ be the age they're supposed to be now and you fix a continuity wrinkle and give these characters a new space to occupy all at the same time. Seems like the easiest fix available while also providing a chance to make those characters relevant and interesting again.

And Jon....yeah, he isn't likely to survive a reboot. Conner can be cloned at any time in Clark's career, Jon is much harder to introduce. Time travel and alternate dimensions can get Jon onto the page while Clark's still young and unmarried, but you'd lose the family dynamic and everything about Jon's life would change to the point it wouldn't really be him anymore.

[LordUltimus]

It sort of depends on what reboot comes next, though. Are we getting a ground-up reboot like COIE or Flashpoint, or just altering details like Zero Hour or Infinite Crisis?

[Vordan]

If DC actually does a full blown New 52 reboot again they’re morons. If you want to “start over”, just pick another Earth in the Multiverse and move there for a while. Go to Earth 101 and do an Ultimate DC line. Don’t think they will reboot Earth 0 any time soon but if they did do that then yes, Jon would likely be gone. Of course given what a massive time anomaly he’s been since the start, they could always find a way to bring him back.

[marhawkman]

Seems to me YJ is what needs the update. Most of DC's continuity, insofar as they have any these days, is built with Jon and Damian in mind. It's YJ that sticks out here; they've refused to grow up like they were supposed to. If history says Conner, and by extension YJ, should be closer to 25 than 15, rolling with that makes much more sense than trying to contract and condense the entire DCU history for the benefit of four characters (who haven't been worth that kind of renovation in a long time).

And more to the point I was making; that's the kind of growth that maybe these guys need. I'm sure we could twist the history around so it supports the idea of Tim and co. still being in their late teens or early 20's....but why do we want that? They can't occupy the same space they did because Damian, Jon, Yara, and Wallace are all doing the "teen sidekick/legacy" thing now. Let YJ be the age they're supposed to be now and you fix a continuity wrinkle and give these characters a new space to occupy all at the same time. Seems like the easiest fix available while also providing a chance to make those characters relevant and interesting again.

And Jon....yeah, he isn't likely to survive a reboot. Conner can be cloned at any time in Clark's career, Jon is much harder to introduce. Time travel and alternate dimensions can get Jon onto the page while Clark's still young and unmarried, but you'd lose the family dynamic and everything about Jon's life would change to the point it wouldn't really be him anymore.

Well, I think it'd be a good story thing if the former teen sidekicks actually DID have families now.

I think perhaps it's less that Tim's moment has passed, and more that the moment has passed for Tim-as-he's-always-been.

Tim was great as Robin. He has a long list of major accomplishments in the role. But the environment where he thrived has changed, and he hasn't changed with it. It's evolve or die and Tim's largely still stuck in 1996.

Making him bi was never more than a marketing gimmick. It's great to have that kind of representation on a big name IP like Robin and I can buy into the "continuity" argument that he was repressing himself until recently. But does it make a huge, massive change to the character that not only updates him but gives him a new space/dynamic to occupy successfully? No, it just means he can date dudes who will be treated like damsels in distress, just like the (non-hero) girls were. Making Tim LBGT is nice, but it's an adjustment to the "love interests" subsection, not a complete character update like he needs. The fact that he's still Robin proves that the real disconnect hasn't been dealt with. He's still seen as occupying the same space he always did, but the entire map has changed and he doesn't fit no matter how they twist him around.

My thought is that you can't really fix Tim, or Conner, or any of their peers until you address their age. These guys are still treated like they're sixteen when they should be closer to twenty-five. They're literally out of step with the rest of DC's post-Damian/Jon timeline; of course they're not gonna be successful in this environment when they're not allowed to change with it.

This goes for the whole YJ generation, but Tim needs more than a new code-name and costume. He needs more than a new love interest, new school, new friends, or new team. I think if you want Tim to work now, you need progression. Re-insert him into the timeline at his proper age. How old was he towards the end of post-Crisis? Eighteen, nineteen? Damian had just shown up at ten, he's now fourteen, so Tim should be about twenty three or so? That's a vastly different place from being a student barely old enough to drive. What is twenty three year old Tim Drake doing with his life? Whatever it is, it's probably not sidekicking for Batman or solving mysteries in Gotham....like he was doing in 1996.

As for Jon and the actual OP....time will tell. He's not nearly as important or central to the mythos as some folks seem to think and more successful characters with much longer histories have fallen into limbo before him. Jon's future depends on how long it takes DC to reboot again and what kind of success Jon has before that happens. DC likes their Superdad right now and Jon's sold decently enough, but opinions can change quickly and Jon doesn't seem to make enough money (in comics or larger media) to be worth keeping at all costs. In ten years he could be as forgotten as Chris Kent, or be as important to the mythos as Kara, who knows?

Yeah, what I'd do with Kon.... is to reveal he's been doing a lot more than talking to Cassie, and they're more than just married.... she's pregnant. Thus Jon is now an uncle.

[HsssH]

I think that lots of problems in DC universe would be fixed if YJ cast was rebooted out of existence.

[Ascended]

Well, I think it'd be a good story thing if the former teen sidekicks actually DID have families now.

Yeah, what I'd do with Kon.... is to reveal he's been doing a lot more than talking to Cassie, and they're more than just married.... she's pregnant. Thus Jon is now an uncle.

If you were to age YJ up to where they "should" be in the canon, you're gonna have to go deeper than just families too. Who went to college, and what for? Where are they living? What are they doing for work now? What niche, narratively speaking, do they occupy that they didn't before and nobody else is already covering? How have their worldviews changed? You basically have to invent a history for the years between their current age and the age they "should" be, and people change a lot in that time.

I think it's actually quite the challenge. If all we needed was a new role for YJ within their franchises, no problem. If it was just a matter of the new teen heroes pushing YJ out of that space, and the 90's kids needing a new spot, that's not terribly hard. You could just send YJ to space, through time, do old timey pulp/mystery stories, or just have them do normal hero things with new codenames in new cities. But I don't think a shift in niche is enough. They're still out of step with continuity and won't feel like they "fit" until that's resolved. And the Super Son generation will keep getting all the "teen hero" stories so what benefit is there to YJ still being teens as well?

I think that lots of problems in DC universe would be fixed if YJ cast was rebooted out of existence.

Like what? Seems to me YJ has been disconnected from the rest of the DCU so much, it wouldn't make much difference at all if they were erased or not.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Thank you Mr.Kenway. Damian have his presence in the movieverse confirmed, but Jon is uncertain, because if Gunn goes with a young Superman, a teen Jon is an absurd.



Well, I think there is a divided Jon more like. Maybe even Jordan makes the transition to comics, but first we must see if Jon follows the steps of Koryak and Prince Arn, also sons of notable fathers.

There is a theory that both movies could be set at different points in time but that could be a long shot.

I'm hoping the Warworld Twins pick up human names and one of them could be Jordan.

I think that lots of problems in DC universe would be fixed if YJ cast was rebooted out of existence.

The only problem they'd really solve is less characters running around.

If you were to age YJ up to where they "should" be in the canon, you're gonna have to go deeper than just families too. Who went to college, and what for? Where are they living? What are they doing for work now? What niche, narratively speaking, do they occupy that they didn't before and nobody else is already covering? How have their worldviews changed? You basically have to invent a history for the years between their current age and the age they "should" be, and people change a lot in that time.

I think it's actually quite the challenge. If all we needed was a new role for YJ within their franchises, no problem. If it was just a matter of the new teen heroes pushing YJ out of that space, and the 90's kids needing a new spot, that's not terribly hard. You could just send YJ to space, through time, do old timey pulp/mystery stories, or just have them do normal hero things with new codenames in new cities. But I don't think a shift in niche is enough. They're still out of step with continuity and won't feel like they "fit" until that's resolved. And the Super Son generation will keep getting all the "teen hero" stories so what benefit is there to YJ still being teens as well?



Like what? Seems to me YJ has been disconnected from the rest of the DCU so much, it wouldn't make much difference at all if they were erased or not.

I agree with your take. The under 20 crowd suffers the most from comic book time. I wanna do a black label series that's a ten year reunion style story for them to see if there is an interest in then being older commercially.

[SuperX]

Conner has been "played" older in Titans and Young Justice,yes even when they say he is frozen,,he acts and has actual story thst is for a older character. This is the Conner most fans know,and expect,not the much cooler and more fun kesel SB.if DC was smart,which we all know their not ,they should have brought Conner back from gemworld looking and acting more like these versions of the character,BUT with layers of the classic kesel version all thru ut.thst way he has moved on,but still kept the aspects of him thst ppl love to read about him.

Jon should never have been aged up,thst is a big ol DUH,but he has the problem is thst he is to close to all the other SUPER characters ages now.of he was 17 now,make Kenan 15,kara 25,akd kon 21,spread the damn field out.

[marhawkman]

If you were to age YJ up to where they "should" be in the canon, you're gonna have to go deeper than just families too. Who went to college, and what for? Where are they living? What are they doing for work now? What niche, narratively speaking, do they occupy that they didn't before and nobody else is already covering? How have their worldviews changed? You basically have to invent a history for the years between their current age and the age they "should" be, and people change a lot in that time.

I think it's actually quite the challenge. If all we needed was a new role for YJ within their franchises, no problem. If it was just a matter of the new teen heroes pushing YJ out of that space, and the 90's kids needing a new spot, that's not terribly hard. You could just send YJ to space, through time, do old timey pulp/mystery stories, or just have them do normal hero things with new codenames in new cities. But I don't think a shift in niche is enough. They're still out of step with continuity and won't feel like they "fit" until that's resolved. And the Super Son generation will keep getting all the "teen hero" stories so what benefit is there to YJ still being teens as well?

Hmm.... that one Teen Titans animated movie hit just the right note to me. It had Dick Grayson and Kori'andr as older experienced heroes, and the new group of teen heroes(Damian and Blue Beetle) as new guys who were learning the ropes. The key thing though is that Dick and Kori are older heroes. It's like having college students act as guidance counselors to new students.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mx2E18w604

Jon should be able to look to Kon for advice, both as a big brother but also a hero who's been around the block a few times.

[Tzigone]

Well, I think it'd be a good story thing if the former teen sidekicks actually DID have families now.

I don't disagree, but DC does. Think of all the poor babies of the Teen Titans.

DC won't let main gen get too old. But they also won't stop creating new generations. That makes thing messy - ages contradictory, stalled or reversed character growth, various characters trying to fill the same niche, families too large (at least when they insist of them being families instead of spinoffs that only interact once in a while), characters whittled down to just one or two skills or personality traits (often with aspects handed off to another character) and not enough page space for everyone to be developed or to shine, given how many titles the market seems to be able to support at the moment.

I agree with your take. The under 20 crowd suffers the most from comic book time. I wanna do a black label series that's a ten year reunion style story for them to see if there is an interest in then being older commercially.

No black label for me, thanks. They are the gritty, depressing sort in general. I want the characters grown up, but "adult rated" stories are not my thing at all. Heck, real comic verse if bad enough with the mass killings and heroes doing horrible things (illegal imprisonment, torture, brainwashing, etc.). I'd like them to be grownups and still have relatively happy adventures where the good guys win.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I don't disagree, but DC does. Think of all the poor babies of the Teen Titans.

DC won't let main gen get too old. But they also won't stop creating new generations. That makes thing messy - ages contradictory, stalled or reversed character growth, various characters trying to fill the same niche, families too large (at least when they insist of them being families instead of spinoffs that only interact once in a while), characters whittled down to just one or two skills or personality traits (often with aspects handed off to another character) and not enough page space for everyone to be developed or to shine, given how many titles the market seems to be able to support at the moment.


No black label for me, thanks. They are the gritty, depressing sort in general. I want the characters grown up, but "adult rated" stories are not my thing at all. Heck, real comic verse if bad enough with the mass killings and heroes doing horrible things (illegal imprisonment, torture, brainwashing, etc.). I'd like them to be grownups and still have relatively happy adventures where the good guys win.

I just use Black Label as a shorthand for out of continuity or continuity adjacent.

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

Jon is already an important part of Superman mythos, whoever likes or hates it. He appeared in outside media, and at some point he will make his debut in movies, although, unless Legacy is happening years before the rest of Gunn's DCU projects, it's unlikely to happen soon.
So, he will keep his place. He actually has more chances than Connor.

I have been wondering if the 'early years" story is so lois can end pregnant and then we can skip forward and next movie have a preteen

[Jackalope89]

I have been wondering if the 'early years" story is so lois can end pregnant and then we can skip forward and next movie have a preteen

Not out of the realm of possibility. And have Bruce's "liaison" with Talia around the same time, boom. We have Super Sons setup without hurting the stories being told.

[king81992]

DC needs to give Jon a team of his own and I'm not talking about the characters they wanted to push for the failed 5G initiative or the Revolutionaries.