Is Flashpoint something that makes more sense for a younger Barry?

[married guy]

Great!
Then the next 6 issue mini series should be Barry going back & correcting the timeline and have his parents back.
I cannot express how much I hate the dead mum retcon.

[Jekyll]

Barry should go back in time and stop Geoff johns from writing this horrid story that everyone seems hellbent on adapting.

[king81992]

Barry should go back in time and stop Geoff johns from writing this horrid story that everyone seems hellbent on adapting.

I don't think Barry should do Flashpoint at all.

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

Great idea for a thread topic. I have never thought poorly of comic Barry for doing what he did. it wasn't like his mom was killed by someone else when he was a kid and he was changing history for the first time. He had just found out that he lived a life with both his parents alive and well and Thawne went back and killed his mom. In his mind he was fixing something and he had no idea of the drastic repercussions that would come from these actions. Why would he? We all read the comics prior to Flash Rebirth and it wasn't the Flashpoint reality.

That's why I hate the the flashpoint story (not only the fact that I don't think every hero needs dead parents). Every time I think about how somehow reverse flash is able to change something so big (taking both parents from a hero that didn't lose them) with no modification, but when the hero goes back and fixes it THAT fix ruins everything

[Hol]

That's why I hate the the flashpoint story (not only the fact that I don't think every hero needs dead parents). Every time I think about how somehow reverse flash is able to change something so big (taking both parents from a hero that didn't lose them) with no modification, but when the hero goes back and fixes it THAT fix ruins everything

I didn't mind it the dead mom plot point at first because I figured it would be reversed and Barry would save his mom by the end of Johns run. But now that is a permanent thing, I do not like it.

[Lightning Rider]

Great!
Then the next 6 issue mini series should be Barry going back & correcting the timeline and have his parents back.
I cannot express how much I hate the dead mum retcon.

A majority here agree with you.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...f-Johns/page18

[Refrax5]

That's why I hate the the flashpoint story (not only the fact that I don't think every hero needs dead parents). Every time I think about how somehow reverse flash is able to change something so big (taking both parents from a hero that didn't lose them) with no modification, but when the hero goes back and fixes it THAT fix ruins everything

That was explained in Rebirth, though. Thawne using the Negative Speed Force allowed him to alter the past without issue, but the regular Speed Force would fight against Barry trying to do it. It doesn't really jive with the history of those characters, but that's the in-continuity explanation.

[Hol]

That was explained in Rebirth, though. Thawne using the Negative Speed Force allowed him to alter the past without issue, but the regular Speed Force would fight against Barry trying to do it. It doesn't really jive with the history of those characters, but that's the in-continuity explanation.

I hate the idea of a negative speedforce. I hate the idea that Thawne can just figure out a way to create his own speedforce. I hate when regular characters in the books know so much about the speedforce and talk about it like going to the park. Its so lame.

[bat39]

From comic book Barry's point of view, as for readers here on Earth-Reality, the tampered timeline in which Thawne murdered his mother and framed his father was an aberration that Thawne caused. The true original timeline, from both Barry's perspective and ours, was the Silver/Bronze Age Pre-COIE/Post-COIE timeline that was the only one anybody knew from 1956 until 2011: the one in which Barry's parents were alive and well throughout his life and even seemingly outlived him after his "death" in COIE. That changed ONLY because of Thawne's tampering, which did NOT take effect until after Barry's return in FINAL CRISIS. Therefore, Barry's intent was ONLY to correct an aberration that Thawne maliciously and purposely caused and restore the timeline to what it originally had and should always have been. Barry could not have foreseen all the subsequent complications his attempts at correcting the timeline would cause (most of which were influenced by external agents such as Thawne, the Negative Speed Force, Pandora, and Dr. Manhattan).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Not questioning the morality of Barry wanting to save his mom. Hell, the CW show devoted almost a whole episode to discussing the subject (the Season 1 finale), with almost the entire team supporting Barry's decision and actively helping him open a time-portal and travel back (of course, he then chooses not to save her after his future 2024 self gestures to him not to).

I think it's more a question of how he went about it and inadvertently screwed everything up, which to me seems like something a less time-travel savvy, less experienced, more impulsive younger Barry would do, and not the older, mature, veteran hero and living legend we had in the period just before Flashpoint.

Hell, going by the film's trailer, even Ezra Miller's younger, relatively rookie Barry at least consults Bruce about it first (granted, Bruce can't really give him any advice beyond "Don't do it"). Comic-book Barry could have consulted the Flash family or any number of time-travel experts or other heroes well-versed in time-travel to figure out a plan to save his mom, without just going back to change the past (even if it's to correct it) on an impulse.

I hate the idea of a negative speedforce. I hate the idea that Thawne can just figure out a way to create his own speedforce. I hate when regular characters in the books know so much about the speedforce and talk about it like going to the park. Its so lame.

Thawne isn't a 'regular character' though, but the Flash's arch-nemesis, and someone who spend years obsessively studying everything about the Flash and the Speed Force before tapping into it himself.

[Buried Alien]

I also remember that Pre-FLASHPOINT, Barry had admonished Wally (back in the latter's Kid Flash days) that time travel was dangerous and to avoid it if possible (though that didn't stop the two of them from time-traveling willy nilly Pre-COIE). It explained Wally's aversion to time-travel. Pre-FLASHPOINT, Wally hated time-travel (perhaps he still does, though it hasn't been brought up recently) while Barry, though cautious about it, had more of a knack for it. I'm not sure if any of these characterizations still apply.

TRIVIA: Barry performed time travel during only his second adventure as the Flash in the second story published in SHOWCASE # 4 in 1956, when he took the futuristic, time-traveling villain Marzan back to his own time period. This was a *very* rookie Barry a few years before he even devised the Cosmic Treadmill.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[ducklord]

Even though it's a bit of a retcon, I kinda dug the *idea* of Thawne's goofy-ass "Reverse Speed Force" powers truning him into a permanent retcon machine. It helped differentiate him from Barry, made him a genuine temporal threat, and allowed for the exploration of all sorts frightening time shenanigans (ie how much CAN you screw up Barry's life before he doesn't become the Flash, ruining your own life?)

But what I loathe about the situation is that it's been turned into a permanent, unfixable problem. Superheroes are supposed to overcome problems. Guy goes into the past and kills your mom? You go into the past and stop him. Turns out he's got "Reverse Speed Force" powers that make that an impossibility? You laugh at impossibility, get the best brains in the DCU together and figure out a way around it. 'Cause that's what superheroes do.

The one thing you don't do is smash your head against a Speed Force wall like a rookie and break the timeline. I mean, c'mon Barry, get it together, man

[bat39]

I also remember that Pre-FLASHPOINT, Barry had admonished Wally (back in the latter's Kid Flash days) that time travel was dangerous and to avoid it if possible (though that didn't stop the two of them from time-traveling willy nilly Pre-COIE). It explained Wally's aversion to time-travel. Pre-FLASHPOINT, Wally hated time-travel (perhaps he still does, though it hasn't been brought up recently) while Barry, though cautious about it, had more of a knack for it. I'm not sure if any of these characterizations still apply.

TRIVIA: Barry performed time travel during only his second adventure as the Flash in the second story published in SHOWCASE # 4 in 1956, when he took the futuristic, time-traveling villain Marzan back to his own time period. This was a *very* rookie Barry a few years before he even devised the Cosmic Treadmill.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Always was low-key shocked by that the first few times I re-read Showcase # 4...just how early time-travel became part of Barry Allen's mythos.

[Buried Alien]

Even though it's a bit of a retcon, I kinda dug the *idea* of Thawne's goofy-ass "Reverse Speed Force" powers truning him into a permanent retcon machine. It helped differentiate him from Barry, made him a genuine temporal threat, and allowed for the exploration of all sorts frightening time shenanigans (ie how much CAN you screw up Barry's life before he doesn't become the Flash, ruining your own life?)

But what I loathe about the situation is that it's been turned into a permanent, unfixable problem. Superheroes are supposed to overcome problems. Guy goes into the past and kills your mom? You go into the past and stop him. Turns out he's got "Reverse Speed Force" powers that make that an impossibility? You laugh at impossibility, get the best brains in the DCU together and figure out a way around it. 'Cause that's what superheroes do.

The one thing you don't do is smash your head against a Speed Force wall like a rookie and break the timeline. I mean, c'mon Barry, get it together, man

Especially given Barry's scientific training and analytical nature. He was a good scientist long before he became a speedster. It's not the kind of mistake he would make.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Originally Barry's life was retconned by reverse Flash so him going back to save his parents would make sense at any age.

It could work at any age depending on how much expierence Barry has with time travel and it's effects.

[Hol]

Not questioning the morality of Barry wanting to save his mom. Hell, the CW show devoted almost a whole episode to discussing the subject (the Season 1 finale), with almost the entire team supporting Barry's decision and actively helping him open a time-portal and travel back (of course, he then chooses not to save her after his future 2024 self gestures to him not to).

I think it's more a question of how he went about it and inadvertently screwed everything up, which to me seems like something a less time-travel savvy, less experienced, more impulsive younger Barry would do, and not the older, mature, veteran hero and living legend we had in the period just before Flashpoint.

Hell, going by the film's trailer, even Ezra Miller's younger, relatively rookie Barry at least consults Bruce about it first (granted, Bruce can't really give him any advice beyond "Don't do it"). Comic-book Barry could have consulted the Flash family or any number of time-travel experts or other heroes well-versed in time-travel to figure out a plan to save his mom, without just going back to change the past (even if it's to correct it) on an impulse.



Thawne isn't a 'regular character' though, but the Flash's arch-nemesis, and someone who spend years obsessively studying everything about the Flash and the Speed Force before tapping into it himself.

The fact that he can just create his own is lame IMO. The speedforce is other dimensional energy field. A human being shouldn't be able to make one. It makes it less special and even silly IMO. When they get too much into the speedforce it just reminds me of what Star Wars did with the force in the prequels.