Do You Believe Comic Book Movie Fatigue Is Setting In?

[Wildling]

I didn't say it would hurt the film.

Nor did I say audiences wouldn't want it in two years time.

But what if I wanted to watch it in one year time like a streaming bunny?

[Username taken]

https://www.cbr.com/stephen-king-the-marvels-gloating/

Even Stephen King finds the celebration of The Marvels failure as strange.

The usual crowd has been celebrating film failure for a while now.

It's weird and unfortunate.

[Wildling]

I know.

I didn't say it would hurt the film.

Nor did I say audiences wouldn't want it in two years time.

Spider-Verse 3 will not be hurt box office wise, dude. And Stephen King's name will live long beyond us too.

[Valentis]

I didn't accuse anyone of anything. My larger point is this, there's been a pretty serious pushback against superhero movies in recent times.

From comedians to actors to major directors, so many folks in Hollywood (and some in the media) seem to blame superhero movies for a variety of unconnected things. This isn't new, it was the same thing in the 1970s when Jaws and Star Wars blew up and a lot of folks weren't happy because "prestige" film was pushed aside. I'm still old enough to remember the hostility that blockbuster films got back in the day (even a film like Titanic was skewered by Time magazine) and this stuff is cyclical.

In addition, there are some DC and former Fox X-men film fans who have been screeching about how "bad" comic book movies were because those shared universes eventually flamed out. These guys are celebrating because now "ALL" superhero movies are flopping. It's weird and unfortunate.

Then we have the alt-right chuds on social media that have been attacking superhero movies for going woke (there was a video on Blue Beetle that was so controversial that even fans of that channel turned on the guys that made it) and have been celebrating the superhero movie bombs. These bros are now feeling validated because they've finally won against the big bad woke monster.

We are getting just one (1) Marvel movie next year and I don't know if WB/DC is releasing anything next year so we are already seeing a reduction in the output. As someone who loves comic books, who grew up watching low-budget churns like Captain America (1990) and Punisher (1990), and who lived through Steel and Spawn, I don't look forward to going back to the days of low-budget trash that we got back in the day. I'm not saying that every superhero movie needs to cost $250 million but I've thoroughly enjoyed the standardization of superhero movies of the last few years. Prior to the superhero movie boom, I can't imagine a Black Panther or Wonder Woman or even a Blue Beetle would have been made at that scale. So, in terms of representation, superhero movies have played a pretty good role in putting diversity on a pretty massive scale on the screen. There's been minority-led superhero movies but they were low-budget nonsense (Blade being the notable exception).

I don't look forward to the churn that Hollywood will want to pump out like 2010 or the crassness of the Bay Transformers in the absence of superhero movies. We will probably see a "Huggy Wuggy" movie or a "Garten of Banban" film in a few years time.

Is it completely fair to drag DC or Fox like that. These two were already deep into the superhero genre before the MCU. One killed it in the late 90s. The other messed it up in the mid 2000s.

Not all DC and Fox fans were on board with the shared universe movies. A lot of them saw some of the shortcomings and did not feel it was necessary for DC and Fox to try and re-create what MCU was doing.

DC fans will continue to be supportive of the Robert Pattinson's Batman films as long as the quality is good. They will show up for those movies. Ben Affleck's Batman is done. These fans did not show up for Michael Keaton's return either. Batman is a total flop in the shared universe films.

Fox fans struck me as people that were good with the truth that Fox was an inconsistent mess. They turn out bad films at almost the same rate as good films but many were good with that compared to the idea of X-Men burning off completely with the MCU. The Fox fans used to turn up for the good Fox films that Fox still made profit from.

Giving the chaos and money vultures of studios, DC and Fox were more realistic in their expectations. They have already seen the best and worst since the late 90s. The irony now is, It is MCU that cannot let Fox flame out. They keep resurrecting Fox variants in the MCU. If the spoilers for The Marvels are accurate, Fox is flopping harder and gaining more irrelevance under MCU than they did on their own post Logan 2017.

[The True Detective]

https://www.cbr.com/stephen-king-the-marvels-gloating/

Even Stephen King finds the celebration of The Marvels failure as strange.

The usual crowd has been celebrating film failure for a while now.

It's weird and unfortunate.

It's understandable if you aren't a diehard MCU fan, for years MCU fans looked down on other franchises and bragged nonstop about how superior the franchise was simply because how much money it made. They took shots at DC, Sony, Fox, anything that was competition and celebrated when those rivals failed. Remember the memes BvS, Justice League, the later Fox X-Men, Morbius, Black Adam and the Flash got? People damn near threw parades when they failed. MCU fans led the charge in making fun of the competition now want sympathy when they fail too but it doesn't work like that.

Unfortunately for MCU fans there's a lot of schadenfreude coming back at them, I know it wasn't everyone fan but online at least a lot of them were obnoxious and throwing the studios popularity in people's faces. It's only natural there'd be a "not so fun when it happens to you huh" backlash to their misfortune. If you can dish it out you better be able to take it.

[Valentis]

https://www.cbr.com/stephen-king-the-marvels-gloating/

Even Stephen King finds the celebration of The Marvels failure as strange.

The usual crowd has been celebrating film failure for a while now.

It's weird and unfortunate.

I can understand how some comic fans will gloat. They see it as karma. MCU supporters for years tried to belittle Fox and were rejoicing when Fox sold themselves to Disney. Sony became too toxic to talk about. We were forced to act as if nothing good came from the Andrew Garfield films. Snyder fans were constantly mocked for their staunch loyalty to the Snyderverse. Are we surprised these different groups of comic fans have an axe to grind with the MCU.

MCU were quick to bash Fox after The New Mutants and Dark Phoenix films flopped. They celebrated those movies bombing. MCU wanted Fox to give it up after Logan and Hugh Jackman retired from the role. It is very fair for Fox fans to now tell MCU to give it up too.

What goes around, comes around. People want to act as if it is weird, but the entity of the MCU has a history of throwing shade and belittling Fox, DC and other comic films, Are we surprised some are now celebrating MCU demise?

[The True Detective]

I can understand how some comic fans will gloat. They see it as karma. MCU supporters for years tried to belittle Fox and were rejoicing when Fox sold themselves to Disney. Sony became too toxic to talk about. We were forced to act as if nothing good came from the Andrew Garfield films. Snyder fans were constantly mocked for staunch loyalty to the Snyderverse. Are we surprised these different groups of comic fans have an axe to grind with the MCU.

MCU were quick to bash Fox after The New Mutants and Dark Phoenix flopped. They celebrated those movies bombing. MCU wanted Fox to give it up after Logan and Hugh Jackman retired from the role. It is very fair for Fox fans to now tell MCU to give it up too.

What goes around, comes around. People want to act as if it is weird, but the entity of the MCU has a history of throwing shade and belittling Fox, DC and other comic films, Are we surprised some are now celebrating MCU demise?

Exactly I don't know how people can't understand basic human nature, MCU fans were arrogant for over a decade and were not quiet about Marvel's unrivaled success. People don't forget that quickly and if it was ok for them to celebrate the failure of other studios movies why is it all of a sudden unethical and mean now. Will the same MCU fans apologize for dragging the DCEU so hard? Or is it only ok when they're mean spirited.

[Valentis]

It's understandable if you aren't a diehard MCU fan, for years MCU fans looked down on other franchises and bragged nonstop about how superior the franchise was simply because how much money it made. They took shots at DC, Sony, Fox, anything that was competition and celebrated when those rivals failed. Remember the memes BvS, Justice League, the later Fox X-Men, Morbius, Black Adam and the Flash got? People damn near threw parades when they failed. MCU fans led the charge in making fun of the competition now want sympathy when they fail too but it doesn't work like that.

Unfortunately for MCU fans there's a lot of schadenfreude coming back at them, I know it wasn't everyone fan but online at least a lot of them were obnoxious and throwing the studios popularity in people's faces. It's only natural there'd be a "not so fun when it happens to you huh" backlash to their misfortune. If you can dish it out you better be able to take it.

Bingo. I said the same thing too.

[krazijoe]

It's understandable if you aren't a diehard MCU fan, for years MCU fans looked down on other franchises and bragged nonstop about how superior the franchise was simply because how much money it made. They took shots at DC, Sony, Fox, anything that was competition and celebrated when those rivals failed. Remember the memes BvS, Justice League, the later Fox X-Men, Morbius, Black Adam and the Flash got? People damn near threw parades when they failed. MCU fans led the charge in making fun of the competition now want sympathy when they fail too but it doesn't work like that.

Unfortunately for MCU fans there's a lot of schadenfreude coming back at them, I know it wasn't everyone fan but online at least a lot of them were obnoxious and throwing the studios popularity in people's faces. It's only natural there'd be a "not so fun when it happens to you huh" backlash to their misfortune. If you can dish it out you better be able to take it.

I guess being a Dick is universal now a days.

[mace11]

Wonder Woman 1984 getting released on streaming was a blessing in disguise. The movie would have flopped hard in cinemas like The Marvels.

Wonder woman 84 did flop in cinemas.
It was shown in cinemas and streaming like black widow.
Now black widow did flop on big screen because of covid but made money on streaming as well so overall did not flop.

[mace11]

I don't know why this keeps getting turned into a "you all just hate comic book movies" accusation. I don't even know how that can be a thing on a forum dedicated to comic book fans.

For me, I'm perfectly fine if theaters release only tent pole/franchise films, and I get my comedies, dramas, and horror films on streaming platforms. I am a HUGE supporter of CBM, hence why I've seen all CBM in theaters this year - even the DC ones.

I don't want CBM to end, nor do I think that will happen. What I want to end is the stuidos' lackluster approach to their films, whether that's because they're stretched thin or because they think if they slap a DC or Marvel banner on it, it will make $500 million easy. Neither Phase 4 nor 5 have been good enough. It's just that simple.

Phase 4 was never going to make has much money on average has phase 3.Here are some reasons. It's almost really starting over phase,there are alot new heroes,new story arc set-up,plus china was out of the picture for awhile and it box-office needs to be build back up and there is russia out the picture now and viewer habits change because of covid. Superhero tv shows these days no matter good will not get the audience like they have in the past plus disney mcu shows have done better on average then the competition and overall are doing good enough plus they will never the get audience like the movies,now over time more folks will go back to watch those shows for those who have not watch,most,some etc..

Look at the CinemaScore for shang-chi. It's A ,not a B.Most folks think shang-chi is a A film plus on RT the audience late 90's PLUS the average score is really high. Eternals got a B cinemascore and RT score is in late 70's.Ant-man 3 CinemaScore is a B but audience RT SCORE IS THE 80'S.Wakanda forever has A CinemaScore and rt score in 80's. I don't play the guessing game etc..if you want to know what the average person thinks of a movie and show go to RT ,imdb,metacritic and CinemaScore.Those are the real polls and they are WAY more accurate,
not random youtubers like john campea,grace etc..

[The True Detective]

I guess being a Dick is universal now a days.

Well the people who were loving DC, Sony and Fox's struggles sure as hell weren't called dicks but ok. I do not recall any sympathy when BvS was released and got absolutely savaged everywhere you turned. Seriously go back to any old thread about it or any DCEU movie really and it's a tidal wave of negativity. If it was ok then it should be ok now.

[mace11]

MCU Movies and shows etc..
Phase IV Projects 18 Audience Score 85.00% and Phase IV Projects 18 Critic Score 83.50%.
If we talking about cinemascore for the movies most in phase 4 are in A'S so the consensus is phase 4 was a hit and those who say it was not are a loud mouth minority on internet.

Look up
See 13 AMAZING TOMATOMETER STATS FOR THE MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE and Case Study: How Satisfied Are The Audience With The MCU?JANUARY 26, 2023

Kevin was less in charge when the other bob was in charge but now he is making changes,marvel is not dc but it will take time for the change to show up plus streaming,covid and pushing back these movie s etc.. did some damage,plus china has less interest in western made movies, the war in russia etc...plus the strike so they could not promote the movie until the last minute,these facts are known.

Now i would say phase 5 is the worst phase so far but i still enjoy and i don't think any show or movie was bad but because of secret wars and ant-man 3 it is worst but let's keep i mind i enjoyed ant-man 3 more then past ant-man film but still say it is not as good.
Phase 4 i think is the most creative and best phase so far and made the most money after phase 3 but phase 5 will make the least money.
Phase 5 is closer to dceu recent phases but i see uping mcu money wise and reviews on average being better.
Comicbook movies and shows even phase 5 on average and current dceu are much better today then they were in the 90's, and early past or even on average the 2000 but what i see is spoil brats on youtube etc..


Disney plus marvel shows,one shots etc.. overall have not been a disappointment to me and for most folks looking at the rt scores and imdb scores.
Not everyone watch everything,mcu,dc or star wars etc.. and by the way most folks are liking disney plus marvel more then the past marvel tv stuff on average looking at the scores i posted here somewhere.
Even before the disney plus mcu shows there were more and more folks complaining about more mcu shows coming out and not everyone was watching them anyway.
There were some folk saying the daredevil netflix show was slow and boring.
You will alway find someone not liking something,so marvel and star wars and dc just have to keep going and they will.


Marvel is not dc by the way and do not quit on their plans.

If a viewer bails out because it's too much for them and for what ever reason not liking the mcu anymore, marvel will always have new fans coming in.

Anyway the past mcu shows before disney plus is non canon. I rememeber as well when the mcu shows were coming out before the disney plus ones there were folks saying some were bad,most were bad etc..the mcu was in decline etc..Heck i remember a few folks saying during phase 3,phase 3 was not has good as phase 1 and 2.Anyway there is was always someone saying this phase is not as good as this phase before phase 4 even happen.

By the way marvel studios would be putting out 4 movies by now if it was not for the pandemic and i think 4 shows a year too.I think they still plan to put out 4 movies and shows a year.
DC was planning the same thing too for the movies.
For the record i think the mcu is still overall fine.Just look at recent projects like loki gotg 3,wakanda forever and have really good rt scores and cinemascores and for me phase 3 and 4 were best the phases so far.
Thank goodness kevin and marvel studios team are not listening to a small minority on how to run thier studio.
Like i said in the past posts kevin and team keep doing what you are doing.

If there are problems in future and there are some recently some of it was out of thier control they know how to adjust etc...
They did so doing the pandemic and still doing it.
If they need to slow down then i guess they will never get the mutants or it will take a longer time because i am way more excited for the avengers/ultimates stuff(blue marvel,america chavez,monica etc..) related stuff then x-men stuff.
Fox X- men had thier chance so keep that in mind.

Now those wanting mutant mcu projects(movies and shows) then those should be happy that marvel is putting has many projects as they are,because if anything has to to be sacrificed in the mcu from my point of view or is not needed it is x-men/mutants.
So if you want to the mutants in the mcu faster,then word of advice just be happy you getting projects faster now and alot because from my point of view and most of audience and critics phase 4 and 3 is the best so far.
note-
Of course when the mutants do come to the 616 mcu they will be done much better and be way more exciting then the fox-x-men,so i am curious because it will be much different.
So it's going happen away.

Note-
It was said ant-man 3 made profit or made it's money back after the box office.

[mace11]

Disillusionment talk

I remember when some folks said phase 1 or phase 2 was the last phase for them or after certain movies in those phases the mcu was over for them but phase 3 was bigger and better on average the phase 1 and 2.
Of course i see this type of talk more so after endgame from certain type of youtube channels and their comment sections and from a few on certain forums but marvel mcu is still doing really well.
The longer something goes on and expands like comics, cinematic universes etc there will always be this type of talk.
Heck i remember when avengers age of ultron and the first guardians of the galaxy came out i had a friend who did not like any of those 2 movies and he said to me they were bad and that was back in phase 2.
He was saying to me something is wrong with folks if anybody liked those two movies and the gogt is for kids under 13 or i think he said 12 etc..
Of course i disagree with him.
Those movies are for kids and adults and they are really good movies.
Anyway he was only excited about the marvel tv shows that were out at the time after that and did not care about ant-man that was coming out and was not looking forward to future mcu movies anymore and that was before phase 3.
So i heard/read all about these types of disillusionments from a few before.
Nothing new to me.
I told my friend i was more excited then ever for phase 3 and beyond by the way.
Note- we don't talk anymore,but there other reasons for that too i will not go into here.

My quick thoughts for doctor strange 2 and phase 4 so far.
Really good film/story,really good action and well done cgi for doctor strange 2.
For me Phase 4 movies and shows have been really good and all have had well done cgi.
I don't think the cgi has gotten worse by the way and there are major stakes still in phase 4 and 5 like past mcu shows and films and the mcu has varied tones,more so then the dc and dceu films and shows for example.Eternals is nothing like wandavison or thor 4 for example.All different mcu projects. Anyway who say there is no stakes is just plain wrong.Phase 4 is the most creative phase so far and the best one yet and made more money then phase 1 and 2 but less then phase 3 for vared reason because some are less films then phase,starting over with heroes etc..it's a new buildup phase plus ending certain story for certain past heroes,china was out of the picture,along with russia recent etc,,so the mcu had some decline like in phase 4 when it comes to boxoffice but more so phase 5.
Phase 4 is overall not a decline since it made more money then phase 1 and 2.
It's a decline in boxoffce from phase 3 but not phase 1 and 2 but there was decline for cinemacsores overall but not audiences rt score for shows and shows and movies combined etc..

Folks who say that have agenda like they do with star wars under disney.
By the way when i mean phase 4 that includes canon tv shows as well.
So far phase 4 has been better on average then the past phases of marvel like phase 1 and 2 for example. Phase 5 ant-man i think is really good(most folks think so too looking at the rt scores)and the magic is not gone.

[mace11]

I posted this about phase 4 in the mcu thread.


13 AMAZING TOMATOMETER STATS FOR THE MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE
WHICH PHASE RANKS BEST? WHICH CHARACTER IS FRESHEST? WHEN DID MARVEL HIT A ROUGH PATCH? WE BREAK IT DOWN.
May 5, 2022

1. THE AVERAGE TOMATOMETER AND AUDIENCE SCORES FOR THE ENTIRE MCU ARE NEARLY IDENTICAL
Average Audience Score: 81.88% | Average Tomatometer Score: 81.84%
The average Audience Score for every MCU film and show is 81.88%, while the average Tomatometer score is 81.84% — that is some consistency right there! The nearly identical scores are almost unheard of with individual films on Rotten Tomatoes, let alone when averaging out scores across 44 movies and TV series. Critics and fans: Assemble!

2. THE DISNEY+ SERIES HAVE THE HIGHEST TOMATOMETER AND AUDIENCE SCORE AVERAGES
In 2008, the MCU kicked off with Iron Man, which earned a 94% on the Tomatometer. In 2013, Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. debuted on the ABC network and earned a 95% on the Tomatometer. In 2015, Daredevil made its debut on Netflix and scored 89%. On January 15th, 2021, WandaVision continued the trend of critically acclaimed debuts when it premiered on Disney+ to the tune of 91% on the Tomatometer and began a run of shows on the streamer that currently boasts a 90.3% Tomatometer and 90.1% Audience Score average. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki, What If…?, Hawkeye, and Moon Knight have all impressed both audiences and critics, and together they have a higher critic and audience score average than the theatrically-released movies, Netflix shows, and other series released on ABC, Hulu and Freeform.

Tomatometer Averages
Disney+ Series: 90.3%
Theatrical Films: 83.5%
Netflix Series: 73.5%
ABC/Hulu/Freeform: 72.8%

Audience Score Averages
Disney+ Series: 90.1%
Theatrical Films: 83.7%
Netflix Series: 76.6%
ABC/Hulu/Freeform: 69.4%

*Note: The 2020 Hulu series Helstrom was not included in this data

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com...atic-universe/




Are Marvel Movies Getting Worse? Here's What the Data Says

April 10, 2023

Rotten Tomatoes Critic Score

The Rotten Tomatoes Critic Score is actually not a rating at all. It is an "enjoyment" metric that shows the percentage of "positive" reviews from verified critics. In layman's terms, it is a measurement of how much critics believe audiences should go see a movie or watch a show.
CinemaScore

Cinema Score
CinemaScore is a manual poll given to audience members in key regions of the US and Canada directly after screenings on a movie's opening weekend. These are a measure of how the most passionate fans of these movies felt directly after their first watch. Instead of a 0-100 value, CinemaScores are given letter grades from A+ to F.
Key Metric: for visual purposes and comparisons to Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, the letter grades have been converted to percentages within the grading scale.
A+ = 95% | A = 93% | A- = 90% | B+ = 87% | B = 85% | B- = 83%. No Marvel Studios movie has received lower than a B-.

Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score

Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score
The Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score acts the same as the critic score as a measurement of "positive" reviews from users. It is slightly more condensed with a 0-5 score determining the percentage with 3.5 being the threshold for "positive".

The Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score acts the same as the critic score as a measurement of "positive" reviews from users. It is slightly more condensed with a 0-5 score determining the percentage with 3.5 being the threshold for "positive".
Key Metric: Until 2019, Audience Scores were the wild, wild west where anyone who had a Rotten Tomatoes account could put in their score. In 2019, RT activated a verification system for users to ensure that people scoring these movies had 1.) Actually seen the film and 2.) Have a valid opinion outside of "review bombing."
Many believe that the review bombing of Captain Marvel is what pushed this initiative. As can be seen in the graphic above and the discrepancy from the critics' score (-49%), this is an outlier that suggests foul play.

Every critic metric and the CinemaScore voters all point to Phase Four as being the worst of the completed MCU Phases. Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score couldn't disagree more. Technically, Phase Four is the highest-rated Phase in the MCU so far. If the outlier "review bomb" tainted Captain Marvel was removed from Phase Three, it would be number one, but the numbers are the numbers.

The MCU has consistently been above 75% since 2013 (outside of Captain Marvel). Phase Four has four of the top 10 scores for Rotten Tomatoes Audiences and a firm grasp on the top two spots with Shang-Chi and No Way Home tied for number one. The real story here is the lack of dips in the chart compared to the others. Black Widow, Multiverse of Madness, and Wakanda Forever all are well above average in this metric where they are dragging the average down in other votes.
It should be noted, though, that the verification system to prevent review bombing could be a helpful factor in keeping the post-Captain Marvel movies on the higher end of the scale.

This goes in more details and other score websites like Metacritic etc.. and even combines everything etc..
https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-movies-worse-data


https://community.cbr.com/showthread...art-II/page672

Now we need to see how phase 5 will do overall in the end but it's still too earlier and still has a chance to be better overall then phase 1 maybe and maybe make more then phase 1 but it's not making morethen phase 2,3 and 4 but overall still could be successful.
Phase 6 will do better overall then phase 5 and 1 and 2 i think.