Do You Believe Comic Book Movie Fatigue Is Setting In?

[kingaliencracker]

Yup I just looked up 2018. 34 movies made 100 million or more domestically. Last year? 18 did.

Part of that is because movies being released in theaters are down over 30% from its pre-Covid numbers.

[inisideguy]

Generally speaking, Marvel has been pretty reliable and therefore the few super hero flops that have occurred since Iron Man have been drowned out by the MCU's success. Phase 4 was the first phase I feel critics and audiences really went after the MCU in a negative way.

There have been far more than a few comic book flops since the first blade movie came out 25 years ago. And generally speaking Marvel has been reliable. And still is.

[kingaliencracker]

There have been far more than a few comic book flops since the first blade movie came out 25 years ago. And generally speaking Marvel has been reliable. And still is.

Just have to be a contrarian.

[Jokerz79]

Generally speaking, Marvel has been pretty reliable and therefore the few super hero flops that have occurred since Iron Man have been drowned out by the MCU's success. Phase 4 was the first phase I feel critics and audiences really went after the MCU in a negative way.

Eternals and Quantumania is the only Marvel product of Phase 4 to have a bad critic score, but both have a decent audience score while She-Hulk has a good critic score and bad audience score. Everything else Black Widow, Shang-Chi, No Way Home, In the Multiverse of Madness, Wakanda Forever, Love and Thunder, Wandavision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, What If, Loki, Hawkeye, Ms. Marvel, Werewolf by Night, Baby Groot, Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special, & Moonknight all have good critic and audience.

Youtubers aren't critics or the audience they're grifters and that's where most of the "Criticism" comes from for Phase 4.

[inisideguy]

Just have to be a contrarian.

No I kind of like to deal with the facts. Not people who pick and choose, narratives based on bias or click bate. Here is another crazy fact. Even after all of this moaning about ant-man 3. Domestically? After all of this stuff people have typed for weeks. It looks like its going to pass the 2nd one in box office in North America. Wow. Crazy huh.

[kingaliencracker]

No I kind of like to deal with the facts. Not people who pick and choose, narratives based on bias or click bate. Here is another crazy fact. Even after all of this moaning about ant-man 3. Domestically? After all of this stuff people have typed for weeks. It looks like its going to pass the 2nd one in box office in North America. Wow. Crazy huh.

Yet it's still going to make $200 million less overall than its predecessor despite inflation and despite featuring the MCU's next main villain for the next several films supposedly.

But yeah, I'm the one skewing facts to fit a narrative...

[inisideguy]

Yet it's still going to make $200 million less overall than its predecessor despite inflation and despite featuring the MCU's next main villain for the next several films supposedly.

But yeah, I'm the one skewing facts to fit a narrative...

Every studio would kill for each of their movies to do better in North America than the last. This is Ant-man. No matter how many times people say well yea it introduced Kang and it should have done better in Korea and China its Ant-man. And its about to pass Thor 2, and both Venoms at the North American box office. There are certain movies that dont play well for whatever reasons overseas and people who grit their teeth over those numbers all day need to figure that out.

As lauded as Creed 3 is you know how much its made overseas? 96 million dollars. Is that a knock on Creed 3? No. Its done great for a boxing movie. But some movies just dont work overseas like they do in the states. Cocaine bear made 17 million overseas.

[kingaliencracker]

Every studio would kill for each of their movies to do better in North America than the last. This is Ant-man. No matter how many times people say well yea it introduced Kang and it should have done better in Korea and China its Ant-man. And its about to pass Thor 2, and both Venoms at the North American box office. There are certain movies that dont play well for whatever reasons overseas and people who grit their teeth over those numbers all day need to figure that out.

As lauded as Creed 3 is you know how much its made overseas? 96 million dollars. Is that a knock on Creed 3? No. Its done great for a boxing movie. But some movies just dont work overseas like they do in the states. Cocaine bear made 17 million overseas.

So Ant-Man 2 can make over $600 million 5 years ago despite being more limited in scope and not featuring a prominent villain, but when Ant-Man 3 makes $200 million less despite a higher budget featuring a major, ongoing villain for the upcoming MCU slate...

"well it's Ant-Man, you can't expect more"

Look friend, I'm not here to convince you of something you don't want to even listen to. But don't tell me that I'm skewing things to fit some narrative when you make a statement like this. As I've said in previous posts, even the head of Disney is telling you there's probably oversaturation right now. I certainly don't have to convince you of anything, but it's outright silly to ignore that.

[numberthirty]

So Ant-Man 2 can make over $600 million 5 years ago despite being more limited in scope and not featuring a prominent villain, but when Ant-Man 3 makes $200 million less despite a higher budget featuring a major, ongoing villain for the upcoming MCU slate...

"well it's Ant-Man, you can't expect more"

Look friend, I'm not here to convince you of something you don't want to even listen to. But don't tell me that I'm skewing things to fit some narrative when you make a statement like this. As I've said in previous posts, even the head of Disney is telling you there's probably oversaturation right now. I certainly don't have to convince you of anything, but it's outright silly to ignore that.

Here's the really obvious issue there...

If it's "I'm Not Skewing The Facts..." while talking about the head of Disney?

Is there a memo about that Disney has decided not to take a second crack at "Daredevil..."/"The Punisher..." that no one else is in on?

Because if there isn't?

The idea that said head of Disney is saying we might be at a "Saturation..." point starts falling apart rather quickly.

What he is actually doing says a whole lot more than what someone's "Translation..." of what he is supposedly saying does.

[inisideguy]

So Ant-Man 2 can make over $600 million 5 years ago despite being more limited in scope and not featuring a prominent villain, but when Ant-Man 3 makes $200 million less despite a higher budget featuring a major, ongoing villain for the upcoming MCU slate...

"well it's Ant-Man, you can't expect more"

Look friend, I'm not here to convince you of something you don't want to even listen to. But don't tell me that I'm skewing things to fit some narrative when you make a statement like this. As I've said in previous posts, even the head of Disney is telling you there's probably oversaturation right now. I certainly don't have to convince you of anything, but it's outright silly to ignore that.

Sure. And it also was not as critically acclaimed as the last ant-man movie. You understand that most of this movies bad box office comes from the fact the last one made 120 million in China and this one made 40? You know what other movie had a massive drop off in China? Jurassic world. By 100 million dollars. Korea was awful for Ant-man as well. If you dont get these asian markets none of these films are going to see the returns they were getting.

Personally I dont have a clue what the political situation is in China with Western movies. Avatar 2 seems to have done well. And I think Free Guy had a pretty good run over there. But people need to really start to look at these numbers in a different way. Cause for most of these movies China aint coming back. And well Russia? Yea that neither. Heck Venom 2 made over 30 million in Russia. Even ant-man 2 made 13 million. That aint gonna happen no more. Between China and Russia and Korea ant-man 3 dropped 120 million bucks from the previous movie. Thats brutal.

[HollowSage]

Yet it's still going to make $200 million less overall than its predecessor despite inflation and despite featuring the MCU's next main villain for the next several films supposedly.

But yeah, I'm the one skewing facts to fit a narrative...

I see you keep mentioning Kang being in Ant-Man 3 as a factor for why it should have done better. Why?

Outside of the comic book enthusiast bubble no body knows what a Kang is and unless you watched Loki or follow comic book movie news you have no idea how important the character is supposed to be. Kang is not some major draw…yet. It took several years and multiple movies to set up Thanos and get audiences to care about the purple dude at the end of Avengers.

Saying that AM3 should have outperformed other Ant-Man movies because it features the next prominent villain in the MCU is a bit much. He is not prominent yet. I’m sure he will get there but it will take more time.

[HollowSage]

I also see people using the fact that Wakanda Forever made less than the first Black Panther as evidence of this fatigue when that completely ignores several other more compelling factors.

1. Black Panther was a cultural phenomenon. It was always going to be hard to top its unique success.

2. We lost the star of the movie which made it even harder if not impossible.

However I would like to point out that for the first, correct me if I’m wrong, black female led superhero movie it did quite well. I don’t think it gets enough credit for that.

[Frobisher]

We'll know when this actually happens because there'll be a thread called "Is Steampunk-Western Movie Fatigue Happening?" instead.

[Mister Mets]

I see you keep mentioning Kang being in Ant-Man 3 as a factor for why it should have done better. Why?

Outside of the comic book enthusiast bubble no body knows what a Kang is and unless you watched Loki or follow comic book movie news you have no idea how important the character is supposed to be. Kang is not some major draw…yet. It took several years and multiple movies to set up Thanos and get audiences to care about the purple dude at the end of Avengers.

Saying that AM3 should have outperformed other Ant-Man movies because it features the next prominent villain in the MCU is a bit much. He is not prominent yet. I’m sure he will get there but it will take more time.

For comics fans, Kang isn't that major a villain. He would be a big deal for Antman because he typically fights the Avengers, but the important thing is that he's set-up as the big villain for the next few years worth of MCU films. It could've just as easily been Doctor Doom, Galactus, a new version of Magneto, the Masters of Evil, the High Evolutionary, or someone else.

It's a problem that the movie did so poorly when it is clearly promoted as integral to the next Avengers films. There is also the question of whether viewers will care for Avengers 5 if the bad guy is from one of the less successful MCU films.

To be fair, Thor had weak box office compared to the Iron Man films, but Avengers was a hit.

[Mister Mets]

We'll know when this actually happens because there'll be a thread called "Is Steampunk-Western Movie Fatigue Happening?" instead.

What did superhero movies replace?

I also see people using the fact that Wakanda Forever made less than the first Black Panther as evidence of this fatigue when that completely ignores several other more compelling factors.

1. Black Panther was a cultural phenomenon. It was always going to be hard to top its unique success.

2. We lost the star of the movie which made it even harder if not impossible.

However I would like to point out that for the first, correct me if I’m wrong, black female led superhero movie it did quite well. I don’t think it gets enough credit for that.

Wakanda Forever certainly did okay.

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness had decent box office. Thor: Love and Thunder did better than Ragnarok, with weaker reviews.

A counterpoint would be that the problem is the lack of unexpected hits, although No Way Home was a bigger monster than anticipated.

A counter-counterpoint would be that the hits are getting harder to replicate. No Way Home brought back the other film Spider-Men and their enemies. Multiverse of Madness had a conflict between two Avengers and explored alternate worlds. Ragnarok gave a supporting character played by an A-list actress superpowers, and had an A-list actor as the villain. Although these movies all required set-up.

We'll get more info soon. If The Marvels, Flashpoint and Superman: Legacy are massive hits, that'll suggest it's business as usual.