View Poll Results: Wonder Woman by Brian Azzarello / What is your verdict?

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  • 5-Stars His work is the best compared to others in DC right now

    29 50.88%
  • 4-Stars His work is above average compared to others in DC right now

    15 26.32%
  • 3-Stars His work is average compared to others in DC right now

    3 5.26%
  • 2-Stars His work is below average compared to others in DC right now

    6 10.53%
  • 1-Star His work is poor compared to others in DC right now

    4 7.02%
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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Ok then, even if we put the other media appearances of these characters off to the side, what about all of the other runs and comics these characters have appeared in during the last decade? Steve was in previous runs of Wonder Woman, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Justice League of America, and A.R.G.U.S.
    I'm not sure Steve has been in a Wonder Woman run for quite a while now. Him being a relevant character in the DCU is on thing. DC has really tried to make him relevant in their new universe, except that he's not very relevant to Wondert Woman now. He's becoming a Nick Fury kinda guy, he's only tangentially linked to Wonder Woman at the moment.

    Cheetah has been in Wonder Woman...
    I did mention Cheetah being a rare exception.

    Giganta in Wonder Woman, Secret Six, Forever Evil, and Pandora.
    I don't remember her in Wonder Woman. I remember her in Secret Six, I remember her as the Atom's love interest. I have never seen her used as a Wonder Woman rogue except in the terrible Allan Heinberg pseudo-reboot.

    Donna Troy was in Wonder Woman, Titans, and Justice League of America.
    At this point I don't think Donna Troy is still a character. She's had a few reimaginations too much. It would seem Sandsmark has eclipsed her place in the DCU.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Consistently one of the best book every month!

  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I'm not sure Steve has been in a Wonder Woman run for quite a while now. Him being a relevant character in the DCU is on thing. DC has really tried to make him relevant in their new universe, except that he's not very relevant to Wondert Woman now. He's becoming a Nick Fury kinda guy, he's only tangentially linked to Wonder Woman at the moment.

    I did mention Cheetah being a rare exception.

    I don't remember her in Wonder Woman. I remember her in Secret Six, I remember her as the Atom's love interest. I have never seen her used as a Wonder Woman rogue except in the terrible Allan Heinberg pseudo-reboot.

    At this point I don't think Donna Troy is still a character. She's had a few reimaginations too much. It would seem Sandsmark has eclipsed her place in the DCU.

    Steve has been shown to be linked to Wonder Woman in just about every New 52 comic he's appeared in. Justice League, JLA, A.R.G.U.S., and Superman/Wonder Woman all being prime examples.

    Giganta was in Jimenez's, Simone's, and JMS/Hester's run as well.

    You're right about Donna Troy. She hasn't been introduced yet in the New 52 but my guess is that if just about anyone other than Azzarello had been the writer of Wonder Woman over the last 3 years, we probably would have seen Donna already. Garth, Wally, and even Stephanie Brown are already back so it makes sense to me that Donna probably would have been introduced within the last 3 if a different writer had been writing Wonder Woman. Still, she's rumored to be returning in Superman/Wonder Woman.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Steve has been shown to be linked to Wonder Woman in just about every New 52 comic he's appeared in. Justice League, JLA, A.R.G.U.S., and Superman/Wonder Woman all being prime examples.
    But, crucially, not in Wonder Woman.

    Giganta was in Jimenez's, Simone's, and JMS/Hester's run as well.
    Jimenez was how long ago?
    She didn't even fight Wonder Woman in Gail's run. I think post-Crisis Giganta and Diana only met like three or four times total, usually in somebody else's book. Not sure about the JMS/Hester run.

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    But, crucially, not in Wonder Woman.

    Jimenez was how long ago?
    She didn't even fight Wonder Woman in Gail's run. I think post-Crisis Giganta and Diana only met like three or four times total, usually in somebody else's book. Not sure about the JMS/Hester run.

    You're right, Steve hasn't been crucially connected to Wonder Woman in her solo book which is my issue with the situation.

    Jimenez was around a decade ago(give or take a few years). The first thing Giganta did when she appeared in Wonder Woman was fight Diana. Granted, it was a short fight before they agreed on a truce but there were blows exchanged between the two ladies. I remember it because Gail had Giganta bring up her missed date with Ryan Choi(a character I'm not fond of). Giganta appeared in the JMS/Hester run alongside Cheetah and Artemis who were all alternate reality Amazons corrupted by Nemesis.
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  6. #51
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    Let me put it this way: Giganta is an ambitious super-scientist who can go giant-size. When was the last time one of her plans involved Wonder Woman?

  7. #52

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    Four stars. Not the best, but it's close. (Personally, I'd put Green Arrow, Batman, and Action Comics at the top.) Wonder Woman is definitely my favorite though. Since the New 52, it's more consistently good than every other book but Batman.

    I really don't care that none of Wonder Woman's usual supporting cast and villains appear. Some people have lamented that Wonder Woman is something like a supporting character in her own comic book. I don't agree, but it's hard to disagree completely. I don't care anyway, but obviously, some people do. Brian Azzarello and Cliff Chiang (let's not forget him!) have crafted an amazing episodic drama. I do have a few complaints though. The slow pace makes some issues seem pointless, and, at the start, some were simply filler. Also, whenever Chiang is off art duty, he is very sorely missed.
    Last edited by 'Dax; 05-10-2014 at 09:17 AM.

  8. #53
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Let me put it this way: Giganta is an ambitious super-scientist who can go giant-size. When was the last time one of her plans involved Wonder Woman?

    I'm not all that concerned if Giganta's plans involve Wonder Woman as long as the two have a meaningful face-off somewhere in the midst of things. I know there are readers who like villains to have a motivation for regularly facing off with their heroes but I'm ok with it being a case of the two of them being in the same city/region and having opposing views which is why they typically fight with each other. I don't mind when there's a direct connection such as Superman/Zod or Hal Jordan/Sinestro but it's not mandatory for me.
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    I'm not all that concerned if Giganta's plans involve Wonder Woman as long as the two have a meaningful face-off somewhere in the midst of things. I know there are readers who like villains to have a motivation for regularly facing off with their heroes but I'm ok with it being a case of the two of them being in the same city/region and having opposing views which is why they typically fight with each other. I don't mind when there's a direct connection such as Superman/Zod or Hal Jordan/Sinestro but it's not mandatory for me.
    Well, I just don't see how a villain who has met Diana maybe 5 times in 25 years of comics, is not involved in any way at all with her mythology, and is by now better known as a general DCU villain than a WW rogue could be considered a real member of Wonder Woman's rogues gallery.
    Batman has probably fought Lex Luthor more than Wonder Woman has fought Giganta.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Well, I just don't see how a villain who has met Diana maybe 5 times in 25 years of comics, is not involved in any way at all with her mythology, and is by now better known as a general DCU villain than a WW rogue could be considered a real member of Wonder Woman's rogues gallery.
    Batman has probably fought Lex Luthor more than Wonder Woman has fought Giganta.

    You're probably right in that Batman has fought Luthor more times than Wonder Woman has fought Giganta but Batman and Luthor have had more opportunities to fight each other considering how many more Batman and Superman(Luthor's primary nemesis) books there have been over the last several decades than there have been Wonder Woman books plus Giganta wasn't even reintroduced after Crisis until Byrne's run on Wonder Woman but then she appeared twice in Jimenez's run, in Heinburg, Simone, and JMS/Hester's runs so given the lesser amount of opportunities that Giganta has had to appear since her reintroduction, I'd say she's done fairly well in showing she's a Wonder-rogue. Take into consideration The Mask. She was a fairly common Wonder Woman rogue Pre-Crisis, she even appeared in Justice League to fight Diana and yet the only time she appeared Post-Crisis was in Heinberg's run. Dr. Cyber, Osira, Minister Blizzard, Aegeus, Hypnota, Zara, and Mouseman have all received similar treatment having only appeared once or twice since Crisis. It seems like the majority of Wonder Woman writers since Crisis default to the Olympians instead of using her rogues more often.
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  11. #56
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    The Mask has apparently appeared in a grand total of 6 issues. How on earth is she a member of anybody's rogues gallery?

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Well, I just don't see how a villain who has met Diana maybe 5 times in 25 years of comics, is not involved in any way at all with her mythology, and is by now better known as a general DCU villain than a WW rogue could be considered a real member of Wonder Woman's rogues gallery.
    Batman has probably fought Lex Luthor more than Wonder Woman has fought Giganta.
    She's a WW rogue because she was created (post-crisis) in Byrne's WW run and fleshed out in Jiminez's. Gail wrote her as Atom's love interest, but made sure to include her in Wonder Woman as someone Diana could comiserate with (which added yet another layer to Doris' characterization). The amount of times a villain appears is not what makes them a rogue, that's irrelevant. What matters are the character arcs and in which book most of them take place.
    Last edited by Razor Tiara; 05-10-2014 at 12:56 PM.

  13. #58
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    The Mask has apparently appeared in a grand total of 6 issues. How on earth is she a member of anybody's rogues gallery?

    I would take into consideration who she was created to fight and/or who she has fought the most.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    I would take into consideration who she was created to fight and/or who she has fought the most.
    I would not.
    Wolverine is not a Hulk rogue. Vandal Savage is not a Green Lantern rogue. Savage isn't even a Flash rogue anymore, he's become an independant villain, which Giganta is in the process of becoming as well.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Tiara View Post
    She's a WW rogue because she was created (post-crisis) in Byrne's WW run and fleshed out in Jiminez's. Gail wrote her as Atom's love interest, but made sure to include her in Wonder Woman as someone Diana could comiserate with (which added yet another layer to Doris' characterization). The amount of times a villain appears is not what makes them a rogue, that's irrelevant. What matters are the character arcs and in which book most of them take place.
    Giganta has had two sort-of character arcs in her entire existance. They took place in All-New Atom and Secret Six.

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