How would you explain away changes in the 1998 Byrne Mackie Reboot?

[jebsib]

From 1992 to 1998, Marvel's narrative of ASM and satellite books was pretty linear:
One volume, retcons galore, sure, but generally no massive continuity screw-ups.
Despite clone sagas and societal changes, the 1962 Peter was the 1998 Peter, just grown through the Sliding Marvel Timescale.

But in 1998, vol 1 ended and - without explanation - vol 2 picked up with one of those irritating '6 month time jump' plot devices.

At the same time, John Byrne's "Chapter One" was re-creating Spidey's first year stories with subtle but important changes:
Doc Ock's origin was now tied to Spidey; Peter was blown up and hospitalized during his origin; Norman Osborn and Sandman were related, etc, etc.

Now, the Chapter One series could be seen as an 'out of canon What-If?' story if not for the fact that events therein were referenced a few times in the ASM series proper.

As fans, we can easily agree to ignore the changes - and most of us have. But the fact that the (pretty big) changes have never been addressed or reconciled has left me with this dangling thought:

What was that all about?

and... how would you explain why the modern elements were refrerred to in the ASM 1998 series?

[Alan2099]

I'm just going to blame a combination of characters remembering things wrong and Mysterio.

[Webhead]

After thourough tests by Reed Richards, it's confirmed that having similar hair to someone does not make you their cousin.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

From 1992 to 1998, Marvel's narrative of ASM and satellite books was pretty linear:
One volume, retcons galore, sure, but generally no massive continuity screw-ups.
Despite clone sagas and societal changes, the 1962 Peter was the 1998 Peter, just grown through the Sliding Marvel Timescale.

But in 1998, vol 1 ended and - without explanation - vol 2 picked up with one of those irritating '6 month time jump' plot devices.

At the same time, John Byrne's "Chapter One" was re-creating Spidey's first year stories with subtle but important changes:
Doc Ock's origin was now tied to Spidey; Peter was blown up and hospitalized during his origin; Norman Osborn and Sandman were related, etc, etc.

Now, the Chapter One series could be seen as an 'out of canon What-If?' story if not for the fact that events therein were referenced a few times in the ASM series proper.

As fans, we can easily agree to ignore the changes - and most of us have. But the fact that the (pretty big) changes have never been addressed or reconciled has left me with this dangling thought:

What was that all about?

and... how would you explain why the modern elements were refrerred to in the ASM 1998 series?

It's simple: You don't have to explain them if you can just ignore them.

616 isn't really its own universe, nor should it be. 616 is just a series of soft reboots put together. It's the illusion of it being the same version, in other words. And the problem with later stuff like OMD isn't that it ignored continuity, but that it broke the illusion. (If OMD found a way to ignore continuity without coming off like a Crisis reboot, it wouldn't have been a problem - that's why fans say a divorce would have been better than bringing in Mephisto).

The way I approach 616 continuity is "everything still happened but not exactly as I read it". That's the only way you can explain Peter being 15 in 1962 but younger than 70 in 2023... Because there is really no way those older stories happened "the same but just a few years ago" (meaning in 2010, if we go by the idea that it's been 13 years in-universe).

Not only is there no way that could have happened, but I would ask what the value is of not treating 616 like a loose continuity. I feel the opposite would just date the characters and make it harder to keep updating them as time goes on.

[Huntsman Spider]

It's simple: You don't have to explain them if you can just ignore them.

616 isn't really its own universe, nor should it be. 616 is just a series of soft reboots put together. It's the illusion of it being the same version, in other words. And the problem with later stuff like OMD isn't that it ignored continuity, but that it broke the illusion. (If OMD found a way to ignore continuity without coming off like a Crisis reboot, it wouldn't have been a problem - that's why fans say a divorce would have been better than bringing in Mephisto).

The way I approach 616 continuity is "everything still happened but not exactly as I read it". That's the only way you can explain Peter being 15 in 1962 but younger than 70 in 2023... Because there is really no way those older stories happened "the same but just a few years ago" (meaning in 2010, if we go by the idea that it's been 13 years in-universe).

Not only is there no way that could have happened, but I would ask what the value is of not treating 616 like a loose continuity. I feel the opposite would just date the characters and make it harder to keep updating them as time goes on.

And then you have Secret Wars by Jonathan Hickman, which blew up the entire Marvel Multiverse, only to end with it being reconstructed or recreated "almost the same as before," even though it was technically a whole new iteration of the Multiverse --- the "Eighth Cosmos" as compared to the "Seventh Cosmos" that was pre-Secret Wars continuity/canon.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

And then you have Secret Wars by Jonathan Hickman, which blew up the entire Marvel Multiverse, only to end with it being reconstructed or recreated "almost the same as before," even though it was technically a whole new iteration of the Multiverse --- the "Eighth Cosmos" as compared to the "Seventh Cosmos" that was pre-Secret Wars continuity/canon.

Yeah, stuff like that further suggests that not everything happened exactly as we read it.

It's why I'm a big fan of Marvel adaptations going back and adapting old stuff in a modern context. I love Spectacular Spider-Man going back to Lee/Ditko and to high school. I love that the TASM films revamped Gwen. It helps us imagine better what older stories and characters would been like if told today. Which helps us better connect those stories to whatever the current writer is doing (not Wells lol, just in general).

[Huntsman Spider]

Yeah, stuff like that further suggests that not everything happened exactly as we read it.

It's why I'm a big fan of Marvel adaptations going back and adapting old stuff in a modern context. I love Spectacular Spider-Man going back to Lee/Ditko and to high school. I love that the TASM films revamped Gwen. It helps us imagine better what older stories and characters would been like if told today. Which helps us better connect those stories to whatever the current writer is doing (not Wells lol, just in general).

Yeah, that was definitely cool.

[Mister Mets]

How do you explain away anachronisms?

Technically, there are some answers in-universe. Peter David's Captain Marvel run had Genis-vell recreate the universe, which he meant to be an explanation for various continuity errors. Slott's She-Hulk had a story with interdimensional dopplegangers to explain some out of character moments; what you thought was She-Hulk sleeping with Juggernaut was a tourist from another dimension.

So you could always figure individual changes are something like that.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

How do you explain away anachronisms?

Technically, there are some answers in-universe. Peter David's Captain Marvel run had Genis-vell recreate the universe, which he meant to be an explanation for various continuity errors. Slott's She-Hulk had a story with interdimensional dopplegangers to explain some out of character moments; what you thought was She-Hulk sleeping with Juggernaut was a tourist from another dimension.

So you could always figure individual changes are something like that.

There is also the fan theory that Franklin Richards is causing the timeline to "float".

[Alan2099]

After thourough tests by Reed Richards, it's confirmed that having similar hair to someone does not make you their cousin.

And Reed's uncle Nick Fury supports this conclusion.

[Crazyspideyfan]

Lol this is a lot like the Iron Man origin situation, since then it’s been shown multiple times that original 60s origins are still the true canon, so I like to forget about chapter one even though it’s hard lmao

[xpyred]

What main issues are explicitly connected to Chapter One? The only story I can recall is Amazing Spider-Man Vol 2 issues 9 and 10. It's the story where Spider-Man and Doc Ock go against this Superman looking character that turns out to be a woman with radiation poisoning. Other than that and a few temporary costume changes, was Chapter One explicitly mentioned before JMS and Jenkins came in with issue 30 of both series?

[Stick Figure]

Comics should be so limited by decades old stories. Ignore it. I approach comics with the idea that the basics are what happened. Peter was bitten by a spider. Uncle Ben. Aunt May. That’s about it. That way current writers are free to carry out their visions.

[Alex_Of_X]

Same way you explain Spidey (born Aug 10th, 2001) being married during 9/11.

Holy child matrimony, Batman!

[Blanks]

For me, it’s simple.

Secret Wars. Whenever T’Challa snapped everything back with the Infiniti Stones, history/reality tried its best to correct itself, but not everything did. For us it’s in print, but for the characters themselves, it’s their own Mandela Effect, lol.