Ages of Characters

[Slimybug]

I was just wondering if anyone could point out specific examples of the ages of characters over the years.

I know Batman: Year One specifically states Bruce Wayne is 25 years old. That's about it.

Some characters I'm specifically intrigued by include Dick and Barbara. I know there's an age gap between them. Dick met Batgirl (DC#359, Nov. '66), and started college shortly afterwards (in comic book time anyway) (Batman #217, Oct. 1969), so I sort of take it Dick was in his senior year when they met. Barbara became a congresswoman in 1972 (DC#424), which, at least in the real world, requires her to be 25.

I'm also intrigued by how old Courtney Whitmore was in her first appearance in 1999. And of course any others would help as well.

[Batgrayson]

After reading Morrison's Animal Man, I started to think in the ages of some characters in universe vs the order that they debuted in real life.

I can have some mistakes

Debut in real life
1.Maxine Baker (1988)
2.Irey and Jai West (2005)
3.Damian Wayne (2006)
4.Jon Kent (2015)

Birth order in universe (currently)
1.Damian Wayne
2.Jon Kent~
3.Maxine Baker~
4.Irey and Jai West

~2 and 3 could be reversed

Current Age
1.Jon Kent +17 (thanks to time-space jumps, he should be like 11 years old)
2.Damian Wayne 14
3.Maxine Baker +10 (Based on Irey and Jai's age)
4.Irey and Jai West ~10 (accelerated growth they should be like 4 years old)

So we have that Jon, being the newest character created, now is the oldest one, whereas Maxine, despite being the oldest one, is now in the youngest side.

And Damian, despite being the oldest one chronologically (after removing the accelerated growth from the New52), is in the middle of this group of characters.

[bat39]

Its believed that Bruce actually turned 26 by the time he put on the cowl in Year One, since shortly before he refers to his parent's murder being '18 years ago' (and he typically is 8 when that happens...well, either 8 or 10). Anyway, the idea that Bruce was around 25 (or 26) when he became Batman is pretty cemented now...Snyder kept it for Zero Year as well.

Byrne's MOS miniseries established Clark as becoming Superman at 25, and he's 28 by the end of that miniseries when he learns about Krypton - which syncs up with the start of the Post-Crisis Superman relaunch. Again, Clark being 25 when he becomes Superman has now more or less been cemented...in Doomsday Clock, Johns retroactively establishes the Silver Age Superman as having started at age 25.

Barbara Gordon's age, relative to Dick's, has significantly reduced over the years. She was much closer in age to Bruce originally...as you've mentioned, she had to be at least 25 to become a Congresswoman, and around that time, Bruce was perpetually 29, while Dick was around 17-18. I suppose at some point Barbara was de-aged to make a romance with Dick more viable (and also to make her more of a 'sidekick' to Bruce, which she originally wasn't).

Oliver Queen is a very interesting example. He turned 40 during Mike Grell's 'The Longbow Hunters', which was published sometime after the Crisis. He was likely still in his early 40's when he was killed off. But then, he was resurrected in Kevin Smith's 'Quiver' in a younger body (essentially, his body restored to what it was during the 70's Hard Traveling Heroes days). So physically he was probably in his mid-30's at most before Flashpoint. But here's the interesting bit...Connor Hawke, his son, was apparently born shortly after he returned from the island, and he was in his late teens at the time when Oliver was killed off (and probably in his early 20's just before Flashpoint). This would imply that at the time Oliver died, he'd been the Green Arrow for close to 20 years! (Grell's own 'Green Arrow Wonder Year' origin story would back that up...published in the 90's, it showed Oliver becoming GA in 1973). God alone knows how old Ollie's supposed to be between all the New 52/Rebirth shenanigans. I think in the New 52, he was in his late 20's, and after Rebirth he was probably aged up to his early-to-mid 30's at least. (But if Connor's around, he's probably even older...)

[Air Wave]

I was just wondering if anyone could point out specific examples of the ages of characters over the years.

I know Batman: Year One specifically states Bruce Wayne is 25 years old. That's about it.

Some characters I'm specifically intrigued by include Dick and Barbara. I know there's an age gap between them. Dick met Batgirl (DC#359, Nov. '66), and started college shortly afterwards (in comic book time anyway) (Batman #217, Oct. 1969), so I sort of take it Dick was in his senior year when they met. Barbara became a congresswoman in 1972 (DC#424), which, at least in the real world, requires her to be 25.

I'm also intrigued by how old Courtney Whitmore was in her first appearance in 1999. And of course any others would help as well.

During the 70s Dick was in college while Barbara was in Congress, and they were an item as I recall. But I don't remember if that was public knowledge or a little off the radar.

[Tzigone]

During the 70s Dick was in college while Barbara was in Congress, and they were an item as I recall. But I don't remember if that was public knowledge or a little off the radar.

Dick was a college student, and Barbara was in congress as you said. In Batman Family Issue #7, Dick actually says "she's got to be seven years older [than him]"

They were not an item (in the actual 1970s), though I wouldn't have minded it. They did a good bit of teaming up in the Batman Family comics. He had a thing for her, but they never actually dated. She did kiss him once, but that was just to shock him into silence (fanservice). I actually do ship them (well, the mature, emotionally healthy versions of them I like) , but I very much do not like a relationship being retconned into their earlier history at all. In terms of publication order, they never dated until the Dixon was writing them in the late '90s/early '00s, so far as I'm aware. I'm pretty sure I've read all Barbara's pre-COIE appearances, but am not absolutely positive.

so I sort of take it Dick was in his senior year when they met.

Ah, comic book references to time. Actually, a few months (real time) before he went to college, Dick was described as a junior in high school.

Someone on this site (so sorry that I cannot recall who), posted this link with references to ages. I'm do not perceive the Earth 2 and golden age being the same and this does handwave the requirement for Barbara to be 25 to be in congress, even though that's in the Constitution. But there are a lot of good citations there, anyway.

[bat39]

Dick was a college student, and Barbara was in congress as you said. In Batman Family Issue #7, Dick actually says "she's got to be seven years older [than him]"

They were not an item (in the actual 1970s), though I wouldn't have minded it. They did a good bit of teaming up in the Batman Family comics. He had a thing for her, but they never actually dated. She did kiss him once, but that was just to shock him into silence (fanservice). I actually do ship them (well, the mature, emotionally healthy versions of them I like) , but I very much do not like a relationship being retconned into their earlier history at all. In terms of publication order, they never dated until the Dixon was writing them in the late '90s/early '00s, so far as I'm aware. I'm pretty sure I've read all Barbara's pre-COIE appearances, but am not absolutely positive.

Ah, comic book references to time. Actually, a few months (real time) before he went to college, Dick was described as a junior in high school.

Someone on this site (so sorry that I cannot recall who), posted this link with references to ages. I'm do not perceive the Earth 2 and golden age being the same and this does handwave the requirement for Barbara to be 25 to be in congress, even though that's in the Constitution. But there are a lot of good citations there, anyway.

Why can't Pre-Crisis Barbara just be older than Dick? What's the downside to that?

I think the Gordon family basically got de-aged after Crisis. Pre-Crisis, Gordon was part of Bruce's father's generation (he was a friend of Bruce's Uncle Phillips as per Secret Origins # 6). It makes sense that Barbara would be around Bruce's age. Post-Crisis, Gordon got de-aged a bit into being maybe 10-15 years older than Bruce, but certainly not old enough to be his father. It thus made sense that Barbara would be a bit younger too, around Dick's age (assuming a 10-15 year age-gap between Bruce and Dick).

[Digifiend]

After reading Morrison's Animal Man, I started to think in the ages of some characters in universe vs the order that they debuted in real life.

I can have some mistakes

Debut in real life
1.Maxine Baker (1988)
2.Irey and Jai West (2005)
3.Damian Wayne (2006)
4.Jon Kent (2015)

Birth order in universe (currently)
1.Damian Wayne
2.Jon Kent~
3.Maxine Baker~
4.Irey and Jai West

~2 and 3 could be reversed

Current Age
1.Jon Kent +17 (thanks to time-space jumps, he should be like 11 years old)
2.Damian Wayne 14
3.Maxine Baker +10 (Based on Irey and Jai's age)
4.Irey and Jai West ~10 (accelerated growth they should be like 4 years old)

So we have that Jon, being the newest character created, now is the oldest one, whereas Maxine, despite being the oldest one, is now in the youngest side.

And Damian, despite being the oldest one chronologically (after removing the accelerated growth from the New52), is in the middle of this group of characters.

The kids ages are just a mess. Yeah, if Maxine debuted in the 80s, then she ought to have grown up by now. Especially when you consider this snafu - Jon has to have been born after Lois and Clark's wedding, which was some time after Death of Superman. Conner debuted in Death of Superman, which means he predates Jon (you're right, he was 11 pre-age-up). That means he, and everyone who already existed at that point, which includes Maxine, should be at least 12 years older then they were when DOS happened (allowing an extra year for Lois's pregnancy).

That also doesn't tally up with the Robins, since Tim was 17 when Damian was 10 - Damian now being 14 should make Tim 21. And the four main Young Justice members should all be roughly the same age, ignoring Conner being a clone and Bart having basically the same accelerated growth thing as Jai and Irey, meaning they're physically older than they actually are. The mathematics simply doesn't work.

Jon needs some time travel or alt universe thing putting back into his origin (as it originally was, given he debuted in Convergeance), which would fix the inconsistency with Conner. I guess we can blame Doctor Manhattan for people like Maxine being regressed. Though Red Arrow and the current Kid Flash both have him to thank for existing! Stargirl's current mini has noted that Emiko's now an anomaly, as Oliver getting aged back up means she's now too young - there's now a roughly 25 year age gap between the siblings, which in New 52 was more like 10.

I was just wondering if anyone could point out specific examples of the ages of characters over the years.

I know Batman: Year One specifically states Bruce Wayne is 25 years old. That's about it.

Some characters I'm specifically intrigued by include Dick and Barbara. I know there's an age gap between them. Dick met Batgirl (DC#359, Nov. '66), and started college shortly afterwards (in comic book time anyway) (Batman #217, Oct. 1969), so I sort of take it Dick was in his senior year when they met. Barbara became a congresswoman in 1972 (DC#424), which, at least in the real world, requires her to be 25.

I'm also intrigued by how old Courtney Whitmore was in her first appearance in 1999. And of course any others would help as well.

Court was 16 when she debuted, and is STILL 16 now according to the Stargirl Spring Break Special a couple of years ago! Based on Damian aging up four years and the fact Court was not erased in New 52 (she was in the Justice League of America book, since the JSA didn't exist) and therefore should've aged up with him, she should now be in her 20s. Yet another age snafu which breaks continuity.

Dick and Babs no longer have an age gap, they were both de-aged to 21 in New 52 and aged back up in sync (but exact age not revealed) in Rebirth (around the time Dick was shot and became the amnesiac taxi driver Ric Grayson for a while).

[Tzigone]

Why can't Pre-Crisis Barbara just be older than Dick? What's the downside to that?

I strongly agree. I deeply dislike the age gap being made smaller (I like them dating as adults, so it's irrelevant). I really hate it that they both keeping getting de-aged (and Dick got made so much more immature alongside it) in general, and in particular her age relative to his.

The kids ages are just a mess.

Oh yes. Cissie King Jones is Bonnie's daughter from after her hero career, but she didn't even have her career until Roy was a teenager, so Cissie's age relative to the other YJ members never made any sense.

And let's not forget Dick as a hero debuted before Diana, and so Donna's origin story of being rescued by Wonder Woman, yet her being Dick's age never made sense in the first place. And Supergirl aged much faster than other teen heroes in pre-COIE.

For the previously mentioned Ollie -I never liked him being aged up to 40 in the first place (especially in conjunction with Dinah being made so much younger when retconned to her own daughter - another thing that was never going to keep making sense if mother was kept a 1940s heroine). Nor did I like it when they kinda obliquely decided to make Hal older with the gray hair. Because these, to me, do not match with their ages (relative to other heroes) when they debuted. I don't mind the non-aging of characters, I don't mind the aging of characters. I hate when they don't age at the same relative rate.

I love timelining/chronology, but I'm under no illusion that it can ever actually make coherent sense for all the players at the same time.

[Will Evans]

After reading Morrison's Animal Man, I started to think in the ages of some characters in universe vs the order that they debuted in real life.

I can have some mistakes

Debut in real life
1.Maxine Baker (1988)
2.Irey and Jai West (2005)
3.Damian Wayne (2006)
4.Jon Kent (2015)

Birth order in universe (currently)
1.Damian Wayne
2.Jon Kent~
3.Maxine Baker~
4.Irey and Jai West

~2 and 3 could be reversed

Current Age
1.Jon Kent +17 (thanks to time-space jumps, he should be like 11 years old)
2.Damian Wayne 14
3.Maxine Baker +10 (Based on Irey and Jai's age)
4.Irey and Jai West ~10 (accelerated growth they should be like 4 years old)

So we have that Jon, being the newest character created, now is the oldest one, whereas Maxine, despite being the oldest one, is now in the youngest side.

And Damian, despite being the oldest one chronologically (after removing the accelerated growth from the New52), is in the middle of this group of characters.

Don’t even bring up Lian Harper.

[Dred]

After reading Morrison's Animal Man, I started to think in the ages of some characters in universe vs the order that they debuted in real life.

I can have some mistakes

Debut in real life
1.Maxine Baker (1988)
2.Irey and Jai West (2005)
3.Damian Wayne (2006)
4.Jon Kent (2015)

Birth order in universe (currently)
1.Damian Wayne
2.Jon Kent~
3.Maxine Baker~
4.Irey and Jai West

~2 and 3 could be reversed

Current Age
1.Jon Kent +17 (thanks to time-space jumps, he should be like 11 years old)
2.Damian Wayne 14
3.Maxine Baker +10 (Based on Irey and Jai's age)
4.Irey and Jai West ~10 (accelerated growth they should be like 4 years old)

So we have that Jon, being the newest character created, now is the oldest one, whereas Maxine, despite being the oldest one, is now in the youngest side.

And Damian, despite being the oldest one chronologically (after removing the accelerated growth from the New52), is in the middle of this group of characters.

Iris technically debuted (at least with a name) in Chain Lightning back in 1999 (though appeared in the background of Kingdom Come, but that gets into Hypertime stuff).

[Restingvoice]

Keep in mind the ages fluctuate with continuity and just within Batman Year One alone there's some contradicting numbers

50,000 years ago - Vandal Savage turned immortal - The original cavewoman Hippolyta was murdered
Ancient Greece - The Amazons including Hippolyta and Antiope were reincarnated
One Bad Day - 700 years ago - After The Crusades - Ra's al Ghul was born

Batman Year One - Bruce was 13 when he left Gotham
Superman Secret Origin - Clark and Lex in Smallville High
New 52 - The Kents died during Clark's prom night
Rebirth - Clark saved The Kents from death
Zero Year - Bruce finished high school then left Gotham
New 52 - Clark and Lana graduated and left Smallville
Man of Steel - Clark age 18 began saving people
Green Lantern Secret Origin - Hal Jordan turns 18 and join the Air Force
New 52 - Ollie was 19 when marooned
Zero Year - Bruce age 19 learned to "drive"

Batman Year One - January - Bruce is 25
Catwoman Year One - April - Selina is late teens - Holly Robinson is middle school age
Batman Year One + Man of Steel - May - Bruce became Batman - Clark became Superman age 25
Batman Zero Year - Summer - Bruce is 25 - Duke Thomas and Harper Row are 10
Baman Year One - November - James Jr. was born
Lovers and Madmen - Harley is premed going to med school - Jack became Joker

Batman Year Three + 80s Secret Origins + A Lonely Place of Dying - Dick is 10 when his parents died - Tim Drake is 3
Robin Year One - Dick is first year middle school

Rebirth Wonder Woman Year One - Diana is immortal but equivalent of 18
Justice League Year One - Dinah is 19

Supergirl The Silver Age Vol. 1 - Kara landed on earth a high schooler
Morrison's Kathy Kane is almost a decade older than Bruce
90s continuity - Talia met Bruce when Dick was in middle school
New 52 - Dick is 16 when his parents died - Babs is the same age - Shiva is the same age (hinted to be a lie) - Cyborg was in high school when he joined JL - Cass Cain killed the mother of Harper Row (age 11)
The Silver Age - Wally and Dick are in high school
Earth Two - Catwoman was 30 when she and Bruce revealed identity to each other (Dick was still in high school)
Infinite Frontier - Waid's World's Finest + Nightwing - Kara, Dick and Babs are around the same age

New 52 - Barbara was shot by The Joker in college
Batgirl Year One - Barbara finished library science and tried to find a job
The 70s comics - Bruce is 28 - Dick is 18 - Babs is 25 - Talia is 19 - Kara graduated from college
The 80s comics - Dick is 19 when he became Nightwing - Jason is 12 when he became Robin - Lian Harper is a baby - Donna + Vic are 19 - Gar 15
80s Secret Origins - Dick is 20

Post Crisis on Infinite Earths - Wally West turns 20 - Ollie is 40-45 I forgot
A Lonely Place of Dying - Tim is 13
Knightfall - Tim is 14 - Jean Paul Valley is a graduate student
Return of Superman - Conner Kent born
Infinite Frontier - After Return of Superman and Superman marriage - Jon Kent was born - This is 12 years ago
Robin - Stephanie was pregnant at 15
No Man's Land or Batgirl 2000 I forgot - Cassandra Cain is 17 - Older than a few months to Jason Todd
Teen Titans until Infinite Crisis - Tim is 16 - Jason returns as Red Hood at approximately 18
Jeph Loeb Superman/Batman - Billy Batson is around Tim's age (16)
Rebirth Batwoman debuted at 27
Titans 2008 - Gar and Raven were in high school
Brainiac - Clark is 35
Morrison Era - Damian is 10 - Tim is 17 - Stephanie is 18 - Kara landed on earth a high schooler - Conner goes to Smallville High - Lian died

Infinite Frontier - Lian is resurrected
New 52 - The 16 years old are Kara Zor El, Tim Drake, Duke Thomas, Harper Row and Cassandra Cain - Billy Batson is 15 - Jason is approximately 19 - Dick and Babs are 21 - Bruce is 32 - Clark is 25 - Diana, Selina and Grail are 23 - Damian is 10 - The first generation superheroes tenure is 5 years

DC You - Donna Troy was born an adult
Rebirth - Damian is 13 - Jon is 10 - Donna Troy's birth is pulled back 20 years - The first generation superheroes tenure is 10 years (they got older again) - Tim received college scholarship
Snyder JL - Cyborg joined NTT first before joining JL 5+ years ago
Bendis Era - Cassie Sandsmark is 19 - Jon time lapsed to 17 - Billy and Freddy are in high school
Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow - Kara is 22
Infinite Frontier - Tim and Bernard are college age - Damian is 14 - Jon Kent is 17 going on 18 - Mary is going to college - Jaime is graduating high school - Kara is Dick and Babs' age - Lian is a teenager

[Tzigone]

Baman Year One - November - James Jr. was born

Yep. Is he younger than Barbara now? Seems like he was a one point, but maybe they were just peers? I only read about that appearance on a message board, didn't actually read the story.

Silver Age - Kara landed on earth a high schooler - Dick is a middle schooler

That's not silver age - in silver age Dick Grayson (not Robin) was already driving a car alone by the early 1950s (indicating him as 16). He was depicted as a high-schooler in the Star Spangled comics of the 1950s (he attends "Gotham High" in #70 and #98). He was really short, but hey, that's all of them. Wally was a student at Blue Valley High School from his second appearance. I admit to getting a laugh out of original Teen Titans when all the kids gain a foot or more in height overnight when around the time Dick graduated high school.

Jeph Loeb Superman/Batman - Billy Batson is around Tim's age

Yep, and I've tended to think of him that way, even as he shifts in relative age. I haven't looked in on him in while. Or Tim. No idea what their ages are compared to each other now, though I do know there was a short time when it was popular in fanfic to make Billy Damian's new bestie. Poor Damian - he can't seem to hang on to friends very often. But hey, at least there are always new ones.

Infinite Frontier - Tim and Bernard are college age - Damian is 14 - Jon Kent is 17 going on 18

I get how all of this happened, but it does make me shake my head and sigh.

[Restingvoice]

Yep. Is he younger than Barbara now? Seems like he was a one point, but maybe they were just peers? I only read about that appearance on a message board, didn't actually read the story.

That's not silver age - in silver age Dick Grayson (not Robin) was already driving a car alone by the early 1950s (indicating him as 16). He was depicted as a high-schooler in the Star Spangled comics of the 1950s (he attends "Gotham High" in #70 and #98). He was really short, but hey, that's all of them. Wally was a student at Blue Valley High School from his second appearance. I admit to getting a laugh out of original Teen Titans when all the kids gain a foot or more in height overnight when around the time Dick graduated high school.

Yep, and I've tended to think of him that way, even as he shifts in relative age. I haven't looked in on him in while. Or Tim. No idea what their ages are compared to each other now, though I do know there was a short time when it was popular in fanfic to make Billy Damian's new bestie. Poor Damian - he can't seem to hang on to friends very often. But hey, at least there are always new ones.

I get how all of this happened, but it does make me shake my head and sigh.

Wally was a high schooler in his second appearance?! He looks like a baby wearing a Flash onesie! XD

I'll add and fix the rest

According to DC trade collection though Kara's first appearance counts as Silver Age

In New 52 James Jr. is about 2-3 years younger than Barbara

[Tzigone]

Wally was a high schooler in his second appearance?! He looks like a baby wearing a Flash onesie! XD

I'll add and fix the rest

According to DC trade collection though Kara's first appearance counts as Silver Age

Yes, he is tiny. But he goes to Blue Valley High School (is almost late for school and runs there) in the second story he's in.

I wasn't arguing Kara's first appearance wasn't silver age with "that's not silver age", though I can completely understand why you thought so. I was unclear. I mean that Silver Age continuity didn't have Dick a middle-schooler when Kara appeared - he was a high schooler of a similar age to Kara. I was thinking how bronze age Teen Titans had Dick and Donna knowing each other from the age of 13 (middle-schoolish) and tend to make the TT younger than they were depicted as then, so meaning "that's bronze/later ages continuity, not silver age."

[Restingvoice]

Yes, he is tiny. But he goes to Blue Valley High School (is almost late for school and runs there) in the second story he's in.

I wasn't arguing Kara's first appearance wasn't silver age with "that's not silver age", though I can completely understand why you thought so. I was unclear. I mean that Silver Age continuity didn't have Dick a middle-schooler when Kara appeared - he was a high schooler of a similar age to Kara. I was thinking how bronze age Teen Titans had Dick and Donna knowing each other from the age of 13 (middle-schoolish) and tend to make the TT younger than they were depicted as then, so meaning "that's bronze/later ages continuity, not silver age."

Oh ok
Did they ever say the fab five's ages? I always assumed they're 14, but that's because I'm looking at it from Robin Year One pov where Dick had to be 12-13 when he started as Robin so Teen Titans year one would be one year later at the soonest