Has the Spider-Man editorial hate ever been this large and transparent?

[Vortex85]

Now with social media to show it, anti-OMD sentiment across fandom has become widespread. And it seem the vast majority would prefer Peter married w/ Mayday as a daughter.



I mean this video has 291k views and 19k upvotes. Checking the comments you see the vast majority siding that OMD was a mistake in some way or turned off by it.

Further with recent previews of Mayday being announced social media is showing how people feel with likes/comments raging against editorial.







I don't see how editorial can sit there and say it's just a few users on a forum. Fandom at large is widespread in the know on this issue. This is way beyond a few users on a forum.

[Vortex85]

One more for good measure... post about the run got 1.4k likes and was ratioed with over 28k likes on Peter w/ Mayday.

[Vordan]

Now with social media to show it, anti-OMD sentiment across fandom has become widespread. And it seem the vast majority would prefer Peter married w/ Mayday as a daughter.



I mean this video has 291k views and 19k upvotes. Checking the comments you see the vast majority siding that OMD was a mistake in some way or turned off by it.

Further with recent previews of Mayday being announced social media is showing how people feel with likes/comments raging against editorial.







I don't see how editorial can sit there and say it's just a few users on a forum. Fandom at large is widespread in the know on this issue. This is way beyond a few users on a forum.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...medium=twitter

Check out what the top selling comic of March was. Long as sales are like that, Marvel doesn’t care. People bitched about Bendis Avengers and Aaron Thor, but the sales for both were likewise great.

[Vortex85]

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...medium=twitter

Check out what the top selling comic of March was. Long as sales are like that, Marvel doesn’t care. People bitched about Bendis Avengers and Aaron Thor, but the sales for both were likewise great.

Married vs. single Spider-Man has never been a sales issue. Poor sales did not lead to OMD and it won't lead to reversing it.

Marvel will never use SALES as a reason to undo OMD, there are too many ways to boost sales besides marrying Spdier-Man. They would do it because they feel that overall they have better stories to tell with a married Spider-Man at this point. As CB stated, it's not a sales issue, editorial feels single Spider-Man leads to better stories. That is the crux of it.

The argument against that is if the stories about a single Spider-Man come out poorly because fans aren't feeling that status quo for Peter, then are the stories actually better? What good is a great story idea if it doesn't land with the audience? Overwhelming bad feedback about this run from people reading it does mean SOMETHING. I'm not sure I ever see fans excited or happy about Peter and MJ breakup drama. The Spider-marriage's popularity with fandom also means something. If fans like that status quo and want it, then stories would benefit from taking advantage of it.

If you can tell good stories with a married Spider-Man and a single Spider-Man, but the majority of fans are behind the idea of Peter being married, then why not take the side that fans are behind?

[Mister Mets]

Marvel doesn't think the marriage works in the long-term. Some fans liking a development for a secondary character in a movie isn't going to convince Marvel that it's better to publish 750 issues over the next 20 years with a married Spider-Man, rather than a single Spider-Man.

The best argument would be that there is a working plan for a married Spider-Man, assuming that the comics are going to continue to be published for the foreseeable future.

[Vortex85]

Marvel doesn't think the marriage works in the long-term. Some fans liking a development for a secondary character in a movie isn't going to convince Marvel that it's better to publish 750 issues over the next 20 years with a married Spider-Man, rather than a single Spider-Man.

The best argument would be that there is a working plan for a married Spider-Man, assuming that the comics are going to continue to be published for the foreseeable future.

That assumption is proven wrong by 20 years of history. It worked and thrived and was only undone because of editorial mandate. If the marriage did not factually work long term, then Marvel would have been forced to undo it because the book was failing. Well from 1987-2007 Spider-man comics continued to sell as well as ever, so we know the marriage works long term. You can't argue with real world history.

Also, sales did not magically increase post-OMD, if anything there was a bit of a lull with lacklaster sales until Superior Spider-Man managed to revive things. That's why the marriage vs. single Spider-Man is not sales issue, or a matter of one status quo being objectively "better" than the other. It's strictly an editorial decision based on their own preference for the character.

[Jman27]

The hatred isn’t impacting sales so why should they care

[Vortex85]

The hatred isn’t impacting sales so why should they care

The marraige was not impacting sales so why did they undo it

[Jman27]

The marraige was not impacting sales so why did they undo it

Doesn’t the video you posted explain they remove it

[Vortex85]

Doesn’t the video you posted explain they remove it

I know why they removed it, because of their own preference for the single era. My point with the reply was to negate the point you were making "The hatred isn’t impacting sales so why should they care". Because again, it's not because of sales. As we have seen sales are not impacted by Spider-Man being married or single. It is a storytelling philosophy for the character driving the decision.

The whole reason Editorial did OMD and brought him back to being single is because they thought after several years fans would like it more because that's the way it was when they grew up and they were nostalgic for it. But if we see fans are not liking it more, that proves them wrong.

[Jman27]

So just wait until someone who is nostalgic for the marriage works at marvel and bring it back

[Mister Mets]

That assumption is proven wrong by 20 years of history. It worked and thrived and was only undone because of editorial mandate. If the marriage did not factually work long term, then Marvel would have been forced to undo it because the book was failing. Well from 1987-2007 Spider-man comics continued to sell as well as ever, so we know the marriage works long term. You can't argue with real world history.

Also, sales did not magically increase post-OMD, if anything there was a bit of a lull with lacklaster sales until Superior Spider-Man managed to revive things. That's why the marriage vs. single Spider-Man is not sales issue, or a matter of one status quo being objectively "better" than the other. It's strictly an editorial decision based on their own preference for the character.

A reasonable person could look at the 20 years of the marriage, and think it didn't work in the long-term. There were some fallow periods.

I haven't said it's a sales issue, at least not in the short-term. A sales hit would be more of a long-term problem if stories are limited by a status quo that cements Peter's relationship.

I've spent a lot of time arguing about the marriage, and one idea I'm workshopping is figuring out the heart of the conflict. One side thinks it should be easier to change the status quo, and the other thinks that Peter & MJ are obviously endgame, and we shouldn't pretend otherwise.

[Mister Mets]

So just wait until someone who is nostalgic for the marriage works at marvel and bring it back

I'm a bit curious how you guys think this would work. Would it just be enough for one person in editorial to push the marriage?

It seems for a change to the status quo you need the approval of a lot of people. That was the case for One More Day, and it's the situation with reversing it.

[Coop]

Social media and fan sentiment does not result in meaningful change to the comics or the editorial practices. So even if 300,000 people watch that video and maybe less than 100,000 read ASM every month they don't care.

And without a sales drop they won't act because why would they. They got away with changing it to be the way they wanted and won't go back on that if the sales are in an acceptable level. It doesn't matter if the change wasn't made due to sales. That's the way these people want it to be. Whether it's because they don't want fans to win period whether they genuinely think Peter hooking up with nobody's like Carlie Cooper or this recent fling with black cat results in more interesting and better stories, I can't possibly answer that. But this is a capitalist world and money is the only thing that matters. If a fan hates the book but pays for to read it then why would they care if they hate the book. They got the money they're in it for the business. And at this point comics is basically an experimentation ground for things that can be leveraged for other more lucrative business ventures like toys, movies, TV shows and all sorts of other things. So unless they start losing money producing the comics they're not going to respond to fan sentiment.

So if you want things to change the only thing to do is drop the book. Drop all the Spider-Man books. Drop Spider-Man merch. Money is the only thing that matters to these people. Joe and his team took a gamble that they could pull off what they wanted without meaningfully impacting sales and they won that dice roll.

Remember when Xbox One tried to launch with all the DRM always online drama? They held firm until the pre-order numbers came in lower than they wanted and then One of the biggest companies in the world reacted with lightning speed. The same thing will happen with Marvel. If sales for this Wells run tanked then you can bet your ass Mary Jane and Peter would be back in a relationship. But they haven't so they won't.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

You're not imagining things. Wells' BND 2.0 run is so bad that it retroactively hurt BND's legacy. Also, unlike Slott who knows how to use novelty to make up for his poor character stuff, Wells can't do that. If the book won't at least offer cool concepts like Spider-Island, what else can it offer? Once novel ideas like that are gone, expect more people to become disillusioned with post-OMD Spider-Man.

Another factor is 2018. 2018 was a Spider-Man Rennaissance. We got ITSV and the Insomniac game, which both had an older Peter. We got Spencer bringing pre-OMD stuff back in the comics. Later we got NWH. There was no putting the genie back in the bottle after 2018-2021. The zeitgeist changed too much. Seems like Editorial didn't realize this and thought they could get away with the same stuff in 2008.

So yes, the hate towards Editorial is at an all-time high.