Has the Spider-Man editorial hate ever been this large and transparent?

[Tuck]

Amazing Spider-Man is Marvel's best selling comic, so the buying audience doesn't agree that it's untenable.

That's a relative measure; the audience has been shrinking for decades. If Marvel and DC weren't acting as curators for valuable IP for Disney and Warner Brothers, they may have already gone out of business.

[Tuck]

THIS.

They want a “forever young” Peter, but Peter doesn’t exist in a bubble. The Marvel Universe is aging around him and leaving him behind. His classmates Liz and Jessica, his first girlfriend Betty, are all mothers now. All his buddies with the Fantastic Four have been married. Venom is a dad. Moon Knight is a dad. Wolverine, Tigra, Ant-Man, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Ghost Rider, Hulk, Cyclops, TWO main Spider-Women… all parents now.

Yeah, at a certain point it comes off as plainly synthetic.

[WebLurker]

If you can say that Peter has moved beyond Gwen and there’s no going back and so on, there is no reason why I can’t say that about Mary Jane and Peter.

Dunno; Gwen's defining traits are either being dead or Spider-Gwen, MJ's are being Spidey's significant other.

As they have been split up 16 years and there are comic readers who never purchased new comics where they were together. You see how that works?

Thing is, the rest of the franchise has not reflected this, eps. the stuff that reaches a wider audience (like the movies), so, on the whole, there has been no "moving on." Heck, even the comics can't. Whatever you think of the current run, part of the point is that we're not supposed to be happy that MJ is dating someone else, and that's not going into how the Spenser run put them back together, or the numerous AU comics where they're still a couple (at least some of which were pretty well-received). So, as far as how things work, as of right now, the franchise has not moved beyond the Peter/MJ relationship nor has been able to create a point of no return for it. While that could theoretically change down the road, from what I've seen, I don't think that's in the cards any way you slice it.

[dornwolf]

THIS.

They want a “forever young” Peter, but Peter doesn’t exist in a bubble. The Marvel Universe is aging around him and leaving him behind. His classmates Liz and Jessica, his first girlfriend Betty, are all mothers now. All his buddies with the Fantastic Four have been married. Venom is a dad. Moon Knight is a dad. Wolverine, Tigra, Ant-Man, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Ghost Rider, Hulk, Cyclops, TWO main Spider-Women… all parents now.

Perennial teenage mallrat JUBILEE is a mom now.

So Peter staying “frozen” in time gets untenable as the Marvel universe grows beyond him. Especially as we have a young, hip, single Spider-Man in MILES.

Exactly. At some point their going to screw up and age everyone else too much and he’s going to be the same age of Miles and Kamala, when she gets back.

[marhawkman]

Amazing Spider-Man is Marvel's best selling comic, so the buying audience doesn't agree that it's untenable.

Jubilee is a character whose star has faded. She was at her most popular in the '90s when she was a teenage audience surrogate character. If she's ever given a major role in a mass media adaptation again, I think that's the version they'll draw from.

Jubilee is also the one who turned Wolverine in the Xmen vs vampires event.

Part of this was due to Decimation and jubilee getting depowered and thus dropped from what she'd been used for before

[Man-Thing]

Exactly. At some point their going to screw up and age everyone else too much and he’s going to be the same age of Miles and Kamala, when she gets back.

would actually love a plotline where somebody notices this is happening in-universe

[marhawkman]

would actually love a plotline where somebody notices this is happening in-universe

Ooohh... have him run into someone who "remembers what you did in college". then Pete's like... wait... WHAt?!!?

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Say, you know that Top 10 list of Worst Spider-Man Moments put out by CBR?

If it came out after ASM#26, chances are the Ms. Marvel thing would be there. So that makes up to three potential moments from Wells' run to make the Top 10. And two at minimum.

I mean, do we need any more proof this is the most hated and universally disliked Spider-Man run of all time?

[WebLurker]

Say, you know that Top 10 list of Worst Spider-Man Moments put out by CBR?

If it came out after ASM#26, chances are the Ms. Marvel thing would be there. So that makes up to three potential moments from Wells' run to make the Top 10. And two at minimum.

I mean, do we need any more proof this is the most hated and universally disliked Spider-Man run of all time?

Think more than one website would be needed for objective analysis. Granted, I have seen little positive response r.e. Wells' run, but still.

[KurtW95]

Dunno; Gwen's defining traits are either being dead or Spider-Gwen, MJ's are being Spidey's significant other.

According to you.

Thing is, the rest of the franchise has not reflected this, eps. the stuff that reaches a wider audience (like the movies), so, on the whole, there has been no "moving on." Heck, even the comics can't. Whatever you think of the current run, part of the point is that we're not supposed to be happy that MJ is dating someone else, and that's not going into how the Spenser run put them back together, or the numerous AU comics where they're still a couple (at least some of which were pretty well-received). So, as far as how things work, as of right now, the franchise has not moved beyond the Peter/MJ relationship nor has been able to create a point of no return for it. While that could theoretically change down the road, from what I've seen, I don't think that's in the cards any way you slice it.

You realize Mary Jane hasn't been Peter's love interest in a movie or TV series, where he is the main character, since Spider-Man 3? The same year OMD was released.

[KurtW95]

Perennial teenage mallrat JUBILEE is a mom now..

And that was a gigantic mistake.

[Garlador]

Think more than one website would be needed for objective analysis. Granted, I have seen little positive response r.e. Wells' run, but still.

The run isn't over, and it's still feasible Wells and Lowe pull a rabbit out of their hat and nail the landing. Am I optimistic? Ehhh...

But fridging Kamala Khan is DEFINITELY proving to be a universally unpopular move, even knowing she'll quickly be brought back, and the run was already being hammered for how it's handled Mary Jane and Peter. If things don't improve, yeah, this will join stuff like Sins Past and One More Day on storylines widely viewed as misfires.

I want to believe it's possible. I truly do. But it's been grueling thus far.

[Kevinroc]

According to you.



You realize Mary Jane hasn't been Peter's love interest in a movie or TV series, where he is the main character, since Spider-Man 3? The same year OMD was released.

This was in the last episode of Marvel's Spider-Man (2017).

Wanna try again?

(Also, they straight up call Zendaya's character in the MCU movies "MJ Watson." Are you really going to argue that she's playing an OC?)

Edit: And, of course, you completely ignored the video games. Insomniac's game sold millions of units.

[KurtW95]

This was in the last episode of Marvel's Spider-Man (2017).

Wanna try again?

She was only in three episodes of the series, which had 58. And it was quite bad too. I gave it a shot and really tried to keep watching, but finally gave up after season 2. So, your gotcha doesn't really work. I know you despise Gwen and love Mary Jane though. So, no surprise.

[Spider-Tiger]

According to you.



You realize Mary Jane hasn't been Peter's love interest in a movie or TV series, where he is the main character, since Spider-Man 3? The same year OMD was released.

I mean... that's being pretty selective about pop culture influences to suit your narrative. It ignores Into the Spiderverse: an oscar winning film that has a much-anticipated sequel hitting theaters in a few days with Peter and Mary Jane's daughter. It ignores the insomniac Spider-man games which have become a best-selling gaming franchise and also have a highly anticipated sequel coming up. And it ignores the fact that Michelle Jones (MJ) Watson is, for all intents and purposes, the Mary Jane of the MCU-verse.