Has the Spider-Man editorial hate ever been this large and transparent?

[DT Winslow]

Libraries exist.

That carry single issues?

[Tofali]

That carry single issues?

For single issues only by reservation and you have to go to the library to read it.(but then again I'm in Canada and only at one specific library in my city lol).

[Garlador]

Wait, they really did that? When?

Tom Brevoort, three months ago.

I completely get that certain fans are fixated on the events of One More Day, as we knew some of them would be. But especially after seeing DC blink after having undone the Superman & Lois marriage and restored it, I certainly wouldn’t change things now or going forward. It was a painful thing to do, one that Joe Quesada bore much of the brunt of—but now that it’s been accomplished, it would be the height of foolishness to turn around and go back down into that hole again.

Libraries exist.

I use libraries often. You’re limited by what they have available, but mine just got a lot of good runs.

[Kevinroc]

Tom Brevoort, three months ago.


I use libraries often. You’re limited by what they have available, but mine just got a lot of good runs.

You should probably include a link when you quote someone like that. You want to source your quotes.

[Garlador]

You should probably include a link when you quote someone like that. You want to source your quotes.

Indeed. Straight from the source.
https://tombrevoort.substack.com/p/59-story

It’s still such a perplexing statement, given the reception to Superman getting his marriage back was widely praised and the book is exciting people again.

[LordUltimus]

EDIT: Whoops, this article got posted already.

[Morgoth]

Tom Brevoort, three months ago.

And what's his point, lol? If he thinks, that Tomasi, Jurgens, PKJ and Williamson Superman runs are bad because of that, well, another reason not to take his opinions seriously.

[DT Winslow]

And what's his point, lol? If he thinks, that Tomasi, Jurgens, PKJ and Williamson Superman runs are bad because of that, well, another reason not to take his opinions seriously.

I think they're not very good for entirely different reasons. Tomasi has always been pretty poor, Jurgens best work is years behind him, PKJ suffered from too many disparate artists (and I don't care for the Super-Family concept they're using now) and Williamson is awful. Frankly, my favorite period of Superman is the triangle era where they're either engaged or married.

I don't blame DC for not sticking to the changes. Sales fell, after all. If Marvel felt it more in the wallet, you better believe they'd bring that marriage back.

[LordUltimus]

And what's his point, lol? If he thinks, that Tomasi, Jurgens, PKJ and Williamson Superman runs are bad because of that, well, another reason not to take his opinions seriously.

Also, them "blinking" is pretty great since if this was just to satisfy fans, Jon Kent would be ten years old again.

[LordUltimus]

-Editorial lashing out at fans and recently quadrupling down on One More Day this year, saying it would be “foolish” to undo it after all the work put into this hated status quo, and slamming DC for “blinking” on the matter with Superman has just further driven fans to believe it’s an “us versus them” mentality.

Also, saying "it would be a shame to undo it after all our work doing it" instead of something like "it's out of our hands, we can't change it even if we wanted to" made it sound like they COULD change it but refused to for no reason other than "I don't want to".

[Lairston]

Addressing the CBR editorial:


That’s a helluva definitive retort to the current direction Marvel has pushed for over a decade that has frustrated readers.

I’ve mentioned it before, but Quesada once stated that readers would “get over” One More Day in a few years.

Articles like this still coming out 16 years later really indicates that this is NOT something readers got over after a few years. From my observations, the criticisms are louder than ever after all these years.

Quesada should be forced to come out and give a public, "Boy was I wrong."

[Lairston]

CBR strikes again

https://www.cbr.com/spider-man-suffering-reason-marvel/

[Aura Blaize]

Addressing the CBR editorial:


That’s a helluva definitive retort to the current direction Marvel has pushed for over a decade that has frustrated readers.

I’ve mentioned it before, but Quesada once stated that readers would “get over” One More Day in a few years.

Articles like this still coming out 16 years later really indicates that this is NOT something readers got over after a few years. From my observations, the criticisms are louder than ever after all these years.

Probably didn't help that Spencer's whole run was dedicated to putting them back together.

Like seriously, you have them apart for almost a decade then bring them back together stronger than ever, have them close to getting married again and then go "Nope!". And then wonder why fans are pissed off?

[Garlador]

CBR strikes again

https://www.cbr.com/spider-man-suffering-reason-marvel/

I'm seeing more and more of these articles pop up everywhere.

And I genuinely look forward to the day we stop seeing them for awhile. As a Wally West Flash fan, we went through a dark period, but DC came around and started embracing the good of the character, his history, the strength of his family, and the inspiration he could be.
https://www.cbr.com/the-flash-jeremy...est-interview/

For the past decade, life has been rough for Wally West. Temporarily, the Flash was removed from the DC Universe in the New 52 era. He returned in the subsequent DC Rebirth era; however, life back in the DCU proved increasingly traumatic for Wally, most notably during the Heroes in Crisis crossover event. Thankfully, the Scarlet Speedster got a fresh start at superhero and family life during DC's Infinite Frontier era from writer Jeremy Adams.

What I love about your Flash run is it's the happiest we've seen Wally West in about a decade. That guy has been through the wringer. How is it finding the joy in the Fastest Man Alive?

I'm having so much fun. I've planted Easter eggs in my run so far for a lot of stuff that's going to happen. You've seen the grown-up Irey, there's some Gold Beetle stuff and other stuff that I've planted. My dream is people buy it enough so that I can do it bimonthly because I can't even wait a month for it to come out. There's too much story that I want to tell. I've had a lot of fun and I'm excited and the way I've planned it is to do big, exciting, crazy stuff and then doing a few issues of grounded stuff and then back to crazy fun back and forth. I think it's all fun but I want to create that tension where we can go anywhere in time and space and also have him go back to work. I love all that stuff.

Don't you want to read about THAT with Spider-Man? A book with the mission statement "you're going to have fun" and "it's going to make you HAPPY!"?

https://www.cbr.com/ways-dc-made-wally-west-better/

One of the great things about characters who've been around for a long time is watching them grow. Wally starts out his career as the wide-eyed sidekick and grows from there, becoming an adult over the decades. One of the best character developments for Wally is his relationship with Linda Park.

Wally and Linda's marriage brought their relationship to the next level, as did the birth of their children Jai and Irey. It not only set Wally apart from his mentor, but showed how much he matured and provided even more opportunities for him to grow.

With Rebirth, DC Has Proved Its Reboots Foster Innovation

Look at the knots Marvel twisted itself into to nullify Peter Parker's marriage to Mary Jane Watson. In the much-derided "One More Day" arc, Spider-Man and MJ sells their marriage to Mephisto -- the devil -- to save Aunt May's life. It was implausible. It was not heroic. In interviews and at convention panels around that time, Marvel Chief Creative Officer (then Editor-in-Chief) Joe Quesada said that he felt Peter Parker as a married man was too settled, that it cut off too many potential storylines and conflicts. The supernatural angle was preferable to divorce, he maintained, because, "I think Peter getting divorced to me says that they gave up on their love, that their life in love together was so awful, so stressful, so unfulfilling that they had to raise a red flag and walk away from it. They quit on their marriage and even more tragic, the quit on each other... Plain and simple, that’s just a Spider-Man story I don’t want to tell and it’s not something that I would like to have associated with Peter Parker and MJ. " That's a defensible position, though there's plenty of room to argue the details. In short, faced with no good options to make Peter single again, Marvel chose a particular course that would give the publisher the status quo it desired, and took its lumps for the story at hand.

DC, meanwhile, negated Superman's marriage to Lois Lane by scrapping the entire universe.

The New 52 was not without its problems and controversies, among them the tension between DC Comics' rich history and its bold new future. But as the New 52 gave way to still another universal reconfiguration in Rebirth, something curious happened: DC got daring. Not with the sort of shocking deaths and heart-stopping revelations that have been the staple of action-packed superhero comics, but on the human side -- the part that makes us root for these heroes, that allows us to invest in them, to care whether they win out in the end.

Not only are Lois and Clark married again, they now have a son, Jon.... This is a seismic change, because these stories, with these characters, have never been done. This is inherently more interesting and more exciting than the perpetual teen-angst sexual tension that publishers have previously assumed is what keeps readers invested.

Etc. Etc.

I've been ready for Marvel to stop being so SCARED of shaking up the status quo, when their entire history was founded upon looking at the status quo of the comic book industry and DARING to be better than their competition, to make their stories and characters grow, develop, and transcend their humble origins and spit in the face of being boxed into clichés and endless cycles.

Probably didn't help that Spencer's whole run was dedicated to putting them back together.

Like seriously, you have them apart for almost a decade then bring them back together stronger than ever, have them close to getting married again and then go "Nope!". And then wonder why fans are pissed off?

I've mentioned before that a big chunk of the story is equivalent to kicking a hornet's nest, and then acting surprise when the hornets get angry.

[Aura Blaize]

Etc. Etc.

I've been ready for Marvel to stop being so SCARED of shaking up the status quo, when their entire history was founded upon looking at the status quo of the comic book industry and DARING to be better than their competition, to make their stories and characters grow, develop, and transcend their humble origins and spit in the face of being boxed into clichés and endless cycles.



I've mentioned before that a big chunk of the story is equivalent to kicking a hornet's nest, and then acting surprise when the hornets get angry.

What annoys me is the times that they DO get daring enough to shake up the Status Quo. And then they go back to same old same old because reasons. One that I keep bring back up is Superior Vol 2. They had a character that they had developed a good deal over the years, gave him a supporting cast and a love interest even. They weren't bound by the "Peter has to return" thing like in the first volume. There was honest to goodness development. Smooth sailing right? Nope! We gotta undo all of that! Can't have any big long term changes!

Norman is another one. I find this is the most interesting the character has been in years but I feel like Marvel has a finger hovering over the reset button because Status Quo.

As such, it's REALLY hard to get invested in a story, specifically Spider-Man, when you know there won't be any meaningful change. And what's even MORE annoying is that Marvel has shown that they CAN do this. Look at Venom! Eddie has come a LONG way from "We will eat your brains!". Look at Miles! He's growing by leaps and bounds. And as was pointed out, look at alternate Spider-Man stories that show him happy and married! "Can't tell stories with a married Spider-Man?" Renew Your Vows says Hi!

DC is willing to give Superman a son. They're willing to have Batman lose his fortune. If they're willing to shake things up with their biggest characters in the interest of telling stories then what the hell is Marvel's excuse?