Has the Spider-Man editorial hate ever been this large and transparent?

[Kevinroc]

Jesus Christ how does everything revolve around back to Mary Jane

Because every time they get rid of her it ends up being some of the worst Spider-Man comics ever.

[clonegeek]

This is the same Marvel editorial that thought that disastrous New Warriors reboot that got cancelled before issue 1 even had a chance to drop was a good idea.

Oh yeah, COVID killed that title. Yeah Marvel drastically needs new blood in the editoral departments

[Jman27]

Because every time they get rid of her it ends up being some of the worst Spider-Man comics ever.

thats not what I was referring to.

[Garlador]

thats not what I was referring to.

It's because so many of us are TIRED, friend. The same Editorial has been on a bender lately with terrible stories that write beloved characters terribly, insistent upon a status quo that fans never wanted or asked for, one that they insisted readers would "get over" in a few years, that has now lingered over 16 years and utterly failed to justify itself and now is relying on frustrating bait-and-switch storytelling, with the same braintrust that continues to say what readers and general audiences like is wrong, that Peter loving Mary Jane is, and I quote, "anti-Marvel", while jumping on Twitter and trolling fans with statements like "dedicated to Peter Parker's one true love..." *click* "... Aunt May!", all while putting out a book that many are viewing in aghast horror as flagrantly sexist and disrespectful to women in general, let along a strongly defined character like Mary Jane.

And with the huge success of ATSV fresh on everyone's mind, it just makes this nonsense intolerable. It's a "read the room" moment, and so many of us are just so DONE with it, more than ever.

I am done with it.

[Man-Thing]

It's because so many of us are TIRED, friend.

there's a reason I basically only dip back in to Marvel for 2099 (which has me eating good these days, admittedly)

[Xenon]

This is the same Marvel editorial that thought that disastrous New Warriors reboot that got cancelled before issue 1 even had a chance to drop was a good idea.

The bes thing you can say about that situation is that they were smart enough not to put a real issue out there.

[Majesty]

Not as much as Disney hates Peter Parker Voice Actors

https://twitter.com/7Spideycomics/st...57874456256512

I feel sad for Josh Keaton. Disney didn't even tell him.

[Jman27]

Not as much as Disney hates Peter Parker Voice Actors

https://twitter.com/7Spideycomics/st...57874456256512

I feel sad for Josh Keaton. Disney didn't even tell him.

the mouse dont care and never will. idk why we want them to care about the comics books
also he explain why Spectacular Spider-man was on team Miguel
https://twitter.com/7Spideycomics/st...922608640?s=20

[Majesty]

the mouse dont care and never will. idk why we want them to care about the comics books
also he explain why Spectacular Spider-man was on team Miguel
https://twitter.com/7Spideycomics/st...922608640?s=20

I am very glad he understands that if Gwen is meant to survive(which it's already confirmed she was never going to die in Spectacular) that her and Peter are the Endgame.

Also love hearing his perspective. I need to check out his streams more often if I wasn't so darn busy with screenwriting -_-

[Kevinroc]

I am very glad he understands that if Gwen is meant to survive(which it's already confirmed she was never going to die in Spectacular) that her and Peter are the Endgame.

Also love hearing his perspective. I need to check out his streams more often if I wasn't so darn busy with screenwriting -_-

Peter x MJ were the intended end game of Spectacular according to Greg Weisman.

[Majesty]

Peter x MJ were the intended end game of Spectacular according to Greg Weisman.

I'm aware of that, but I've written way back why Gwen has to die if MJ and Peter are going to be a thing or it otherwise doesn't make sense, given what Gwen represents, not just to Peter but to MJ as well and what her death meant for her character and all the other stuff therein.

It's why I while saddened that the series had a shorter run, am glad it never tried to find a way to put MJ and Peter together WITHOUT Gwen Stacy having died.

Had to go look, but yeah here was my thoughts on that.

Nope. just that Spectacular did a great job of building Peter and Gwen and why she'd be so hard for MJ to live up to (which is how she felt) that NOT killing her off would have taken away too many story points. The moment with Gwen and Peter there was pure, and love. The kind of perfect which was how she and Peter were perceived. The idea is that they work together so well that you couldn't see any reason why they wouldn't be together. They have perfect moments that don't get topped as long as she's still there, because the moments with Peter are as beautiful as they are. It's why something happens to her in the first place. It's why Mary Jane whom comes afterwards is confirmed to feel initially inadequate to the memory of Gwen. They executed this characterization of Peter and Gwen being perfect for each other very well in the ASM movies. That's the point.

May be controversial, but imo Gwen Stacy has to die for MJ and Peter to be together.
Gwen is the reason MJ became the kind of person she is today, why she put away the party girl lifestyle that Peter thought less of her with.
Gwen is the reason MJ decided to become a formidable foe when she decided she wanted to be in a relationship with Spider-Man. So it wouldn't happen to her.
Gwen is the reason MJ even stayed and decided to comfort Peter despite the fact he was very rude and cross with her while he dealt with his loss.
Gwen is perfect in MJ's words, and she doubts she'd ever have had a chance with Peter if she'd never died. She's right, in many aspects. BUT it also leads into her having to "live up to a dead girl" and all that came with that and the insecurities she dealt with on top of all that.

NOT killing Gwen Stacy despite how great they built her up as that person that was everything Mary Jane said she was(and then some, fleshing her out even further) takes away a lot of the motivation behind MJ's change of character, as well as Peter in general.

Them pairing MJ with Peter is fine, but they were going to try to have their cake and eat it to without the tragedy of Gwen Stacy, it takes a lot away from both MJs and Peter's motivations that eventually lead to them getting together. Those little moments like that between Gwen and Peter is why MJ would think they were "perfect" for each other, and what she'd have to live up to.

They built up Gwen too well for them to them put MJ and Peter together WITHOUT something happening to her. You don't just take so much away from Peter but you take it away from MJ too and one of the major things that both changed and bonded them together in the first place.





Just my two cents on the matter though.

[Serving Size]

This is true and the ultimate sign of the failure of OMD. Mary Jane was Spider-Man's wife, sure, but it wasn't like she was the only thing that mattered in his comics. There are tons of books from the 90s where she's just this supporting character. She's more important during the JMS run, but the first half of that run is quite fantastic. But I'm getting distracted. The point is, however important she was before, OMD made her VASTLY more important. They cemented her status as "the one" better than any puff piece could.

I always thought, in terms of what OMD was supposed to do, it only existed as a half measure. MJ herself needed to be removed permanently from Spider-Man books and surely the greater 616 all together (The Devil, mephisto, joephisto, whatever just wipes her out from existence).

[Vortex85]

I always thought, in terms of what OMD was supposed to do, it only existed as a half measure. MJ herself needed to be removed permanently from Spider-Man books and surely the greater 616 all together (The Devil, mephisto, joephisto, whatever just wipes her out from existence).

They got rid of her for about a year in the book and barely used her for several years to try to do that. The original thought was that fans would get over the marriage being removed in 5 years and accept new love interests going forward, like fans got over Gwen's death. That did not exactly pan out considering MJ was married to Peter for about 800 published Spider-Man comics for the 20 years of their marriage, had movies, cartoons, video games featuring her as the main love interest, and was already considerd the Lois Lane of Spider-Man to the fandom across the world prior to OMD. Compared to Gwen, who had only dated Peter for a few years over 50 or so comics with no adaptations of their romance in mass media prior to her death. The impact is not comparable.

I remember Dan Slott posted admitting that fans just wouldn't give new love interests a chance during his run unlike a classic like MJ. Fans are always going to be looking at the possibility of MJ and Peter romance more than an alternative love interest with Peter. OMD only made it worse by setting up their true love status so powerful Mephisto hated and feared it, and closed in MJ's promise of them finding each other again one day. Now, rooting against Peter and MJ has become synonymous with rooting for evil to triumph over love.

[Xenon]

I always thought, in terms of what OMD was supposed to do, it only existed as a half measure. MJ herself needed to be removed permanently from Spider-Man books and surely the greater 616 all together (The Devil, mephisto, joephisto, whatever just wipes her out from existence).

The problem is that that just invites a story about her coming back.

There is no getting rid of Mary Jane. Like, after reading the comics, I love Gwen, I wish we got a version where Gwen won out. I was hoping against hope that they wouldn't kill her in the movie ASM2. But even AUs have serious difficulty getting away from Mary Jane. In the 616 she's his one. It's another reason why OMD is so frustrating. It's a pointless endeavor.

[Kevinroc]

They got rid of her for about a year in the book and barely used her for several years to try to do that. The original thought was that fans would get over the marriage being removed in 5 years and accept new love interests going forward, like fans got over Gwen's death. That did not exactly pan out considering MJ was married to Peter for about 800 published Spider-Man comics for the 20 years of their marriage, had movies, cartoons, video games featuring her as the main love interest, and was already considerd the Lois Lane of Spider-Man to the fandom across the world prior to OMD. Compared to Gwen, who had only dated Peter for a few years over 50 or so comics with no adaptations of their romance in mass media prior to her death. The impact is not comparable.

I remember Dan Slott posted admitting that fans just wouldn't give new love interests a chance during his run unlike a classic like MJ. Fans are always going to be looking at the possibility of MJ and Peter romance more than an alternative love interest with Peter. OMD only made it worse by setting up their true love status so powerful Mephisto hated and feared it, and closed in MJ's promise of them finding each other again one day. Now, rooting against Peter and MJ has become synonymous with rooting for evil to triumph over love.

I want to add that we're not exactly seeing a lot of excitement for the Black Cat romance currently occurring in the book. I agree with your point overall.